"The Meaning of Foreknew in Romans 8:29"

[Van]

He foreknew them in time because they already had faith, but were still due the promise of being "in Christ (NT), thus they were predestined to be conformed to Christ-likeness, not yet called with the Gospel, yet foreknown.

The foreknew of Romans 8:29 is from Before creation. I demonstrated that conclusion. You did not address it, but simply restated your view.

Isaiah 45:9-10 says nothing about "eternal decrees" but rather points to His declarations in time, from the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:11 does not provide additional decrees from eternity. The redemption plan simply predesignated whoever might be redeemed to also being conformed to the image of Christ. Thus, this does not address any additional eternal decree.

Again, Acts 2:23 refers to God's redemption plan, formulated in eternity, but declared in part in scripture such as Isaiah 53.

Time to move along, nothing to see here...

"Every OT true believer was predestined to be "in Christ"."

None of the verses cited supports this false claim. All the OT saints carried to Abraham's bosom were chosen based on crediting their faith as righteousness, and then, following their physical death, were set apart in Abraham's bosom. None were predestined before God credited their faith as righteous

Christ only "knew" his sheep after they were transferred spiritually into His spiritual body. John 10:27, John 14:16 has nothing to do with predestination. Luke 24:49 does not say whether His Apostles were in Christ but not yet sealed in Christ. Why cite it? Similarly Ephesians 1:13-14 has nothing to do with the dispute. Ditto for 1 Peter 1:3 Ditto for Romans 3:25.

To repeat, God knew before the foundation of the world His redemption plan, that included His redeemer, His Lamb of God, and of the His plan to redeem those whose faith He might credit as righteousness. Nothing more is supported from scripture.

Item 4 is off topic. The issue is not the sequence that the OT saints received salvation, the issue is no one was predestined for salvation before God credited their faith, during their lifetime, as righteousness. Full Stop

Next you ask when God credits a person's faith as righteousness. Immediately after God determines to credit the person's faith as righteousness. What in the world does this have to do with Pentecost? The sequence, is 1) God's witness reveals the gospel to a lost person. The person either understands it, soils 2, 3 and 4, or does not understand it, soil #1. 2) Some of those who understand, either reject or do not fully embrace the gospel, but some God chooses to credit their faith as righteousness. Then, 3), on that basis, belief in the truth, God sets them apart in Christ, the sanctification by the Spirit. 4) They undergo the washing of regeneration, and then 5) they are indwelt.

Next the promise was received when God transferred the person spiritually into Christ. That is when they undergo the washing of regeneration and are therefore born anew, a new creation, a child of God, and only then are they indwelt with the Holy Spirit. This is not difficult to grasp.

Next, 1 Corinthians 12:13 does not say we were baptized into Christ "with the indwelling Spirit" because we had not yet been made holy and blameless by the washing of regeneration. No, the Holy Spirit, acting as Christ's agent, transferred our human spirit into the spiritual body of Christ. The "made to drink of one Spirit" refers to our indwelling, thus we are now in Christ and Christ is in us. John 14:20

Again, you deny Romans 4, and the gospel requirement that your faith must be credited by God as righteousness. Nothing more I can say.

The target group of believers are the people "whom" He foreknew in Romans 8:29. Remember no actual people existed.

 

[Dave...]

The foreknew of Romans 8:29 is from Before creation. I demonstrated that conclusion. You did not address it, but simply restated your view.

Isaiah 45:9-10 says nothing about "eternal decrees" but rather points to His declarations in time, from the foundation of the world.

"WHOM" He foreknew.

There's no getting around it. Play games if you must, but that's what it says. Liberal debating tactics have no power over me. You are interpreting Scripture from a Calvinist platform, whether you know it or not. Every proof text you offer is interpreted outside of it's context, just like you did with Romans 8:29. Good luck Van. I'm not chasing you any longer in the hopes of an honest discussion.

Dave

 

[Van]

"WHOM" He foreknew.

There's no getting around it. Play games if you must, but that's what it says. Liberal debating tactics have no power over me. You are interpreting Scripture from a Calvinist platform, whether you know it or not. Every proof text you offer is interpreted outside of it's context, just like you did with Romans 8:29. Good luck Van. I'm not chasing you any longer in the hopes of an honest discussion.

Dave

I did not see where I said "whom He foreknew" was not what scripture says. Next, your view is implied not to be "playing games" but my view is "playing games." Next, it is implied I am using "liberal debating tactics," Next you indicated that I am interpreting scripture from a Calvinist platform. Next, I am interpreting the verses I post outside their context. Finally, I am not engaging in an "honest discussion." Nuff said.

Folks, I provided an exhaustive study of the Greek words translated as "foreknowledge and foreknew." I explained that "foreknowledge" as used in scripture and contextually evaluated, always refers to some information acquired or formulated in the past, such as a pre-determined plan, being utilized in the present. For example Christ was delivered according to God's plan, and so Christ was delivered up according to foreknowledge. All the usages present this same meaning.

In Romans 8:29 those God planned for His Redeemer to redeem, He thus "foreknew" and God also planned to cause those redeemed to be conformed to the image of His Son. These His Redeemer might redeem are the "whom He foreknew" and therefore in the present God called them into the Kingdom of His believed Son (transferred them spiritually into Christ) caused them to undergo the washing of regeneration, making them justified, holy and blameless before God, and therefore they are spiritually glorified, but still in our mortal bodies. But then God seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit of Promise, the Spirit of Christ, so we are in Christ and Christ is in us.

This view is contextually consistent with all scripture, does not reflect Calvinism's individual election before the foundation of the world false doctrine and provides the basis for "honest discussion."