The Mega Church/ Non - Denom Movement??!!

[FundamentalOnly!]

I think this topic is a great one that I havent seen addressed here while I have been a member, so lets talk about it.


The Non-Denominational movement in the last 10 years has gained great movement through out the nation. Here is the basic outline of this movment.


1.These churches can be typical churches or they can be mega churches holding thousands of people.

2. Come as you are, everyone is welcome , sometimes very casual church. Upbeat "christian Rock music" is typical.

3. The church is more like a stage than a church, there is a church is a church here in houston that has a preacher cooking on stage to prove a point. He rents elephants for the christmas pagent. You get the point.

4. Limited bible use during the service, more or less the typical olsteen type preaching. Feel good about yourself.


What does everyone here on baptist board think about this movement?

 

[rbell]

My thoughts:

Too broad a brush you use. Is a church that is "non-denominational" necessarily like this? Are all large churches like this? Nope.

Not everything you named is necessarily sinful. It's not wrong to have a large church. Musical style is a taste issue, not a sin issue. I wish I had a podium like a stage--it would make for more flexibility. That's also a taste issue. I like a casual atmosphere...but once again, a taste issue--not sin. A lack of Bible preaching would be the big red flag.

I'm just guessing, and if I'm wrong, I'll apologize: but I have a suspicion that you're against a casual atmosphere, more modern worship, etc...am I right?

 

[Jim1999]

Reading some Baptist posts in here, I am not certain that it is the correct atmospere either. On the other hand, I have been in some rather large non-denominational churches that were missionary oriented (70% of their budget), such as The People's Church in Toronto, founded by Dr. Oswald Smith (deceased).

I think the original post is a rather broad sweep.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Chemnitz]

I think nondenom church are basically bapticostal churches that don't want to admit they are baptist and/or pentacostal and generally are made up of people who don't want to have anything resembling a common confession of faith or people who for piety reasons do not want to join a denominational church dispite the fact that non-denoms are pretty much a denomination themselves..

 

[JamieinNH]

The Non-Denominational movement in the last 10 years has gained great movement through out the nation. Here is the basic outline of this movment.


1.These churches can be typical churches or they can be mega churches holding thousands of people.

Nothing wrong with this as I see it.

2. Come as you are, everyone is welcome , sometimes very casual church. Upbeat "christian Rock music" is typical.

Nothing wrong with this as I see it, although I like singing hymms, and I like the upbeat music, can we have a blended service?

3. The church is more like a stage than a church, there is a church is a church here in houston that has a preacher cooking on stage to prove a point. He rents elephants for the christmas pagent. You get the point.

Nothing wrong with this, depending on the point being made in th cooking demonstration. I have never heard of renting elephants before, but in the right setting it would be no different then my home church renting a trailer to pull in the parade and fixing it up in a theme...

4. Limited bible use during the service, more or less the typical olsteen type preaching. Feel good about yourself.

This would cause me problems. I believe that you should see good use of the Bible and verses in any sermon/Sunday. Without it we have nothing really...


Jamie

 

[Jack Matthews]

Renting an elephant? Wow. I know that First Baptist Church in Houston used to rent donkeys and a couple of camels for its Christmas pageant--watched it on television a few years ago.

I think that description may be painting with too broad a brush. Osteen is "non-denominational" in that his church isn't affiliated with, or involved in financial support of a mission program through a denomination, but is very much characterized by its Charismatic leanings and sympathies. Willow Creek, on the other hand, is casual as far as dress is concerned, very much "come as you are"(nothing wrong with that), uses contemporary Christian music in its worship (nothing wrong with that) and looks like more of a plain auditoruim with a platform than a church with a "loft (nothing wrong with that, either.) But you're going to get a lot more expository preaching from their pastor, Bill Hybels, than you'd ever get out of Joel Osteen.

I get a bit frustrated with the attitude of some people I know here in Nashville who go to a large, well known "non-denominational" congregation that almost makes being "non-denominational" a denomination unto itself. They have a doctrinal statement that identifies them pretty well, no matter how much they claim to be free of that bias. They pretty much fit all of the characteristics you've listed here, too, except that their pastor also preaches very Biblical, expository sermons. And he's not under a lot of pressure to come up with convoluted interpretations in order to meet the already established "doctrinal preferences" of the congregation, as a lot of Baptist pastors must do.

 

[webdog]

What denomination was the first "mega church" in Acts?

 

[StefanM]

Independent (read non-denominational) churches don't have to deal with convention politics.

As a fairly disillusioned SBCer, I can see the benefit in that.

 

[FundamentalOnly!]

When I posted this thread, I meant no disrespect towards the non- Denom. Church, I merely wanted to discuss this topic, not attack it.


Here in Houston there are a lot of churches that are here for entertainment, kinda of a speech with the bible thrown in it somwhere , does that make sense?


I enjoy everyones opinion, I just want to see what the thoughts about this type of church are.

 

[EdSutton]

I think nondenom church are basically bapticostal churches that don't want to admit they are baptist and/or pentacostal and generally are made up of people who don't want to have anything resembling a common confession of faith or people who for piety reasons do not want to join a denominational church dispite the fact that non-denoms are pretty much a denomination themselves..

I would agree that some are, but disagree because some aren't as you describe.

To name a few, the afore mentioned People's Church is definitely not one fitting your description above, from what I know of it. I'll add two more - the famed Moody Memorial Church of Chi-town, and the Church of the Open Door, in Los Angeles, which would probably be considered 'mega-churches' by many. Grace Chapel on the outskirts of Philadelphia, Berachah Church of Houston, TX, Believer's Chapel in Dallas, Quentin Road Bible Baptist Church (Don't let the 'Baptist' in this name fool you, as I posted on another thread, a week or so ago.) in Lake Zurich, IL, and the Florida Bible Church, of Hollywood, FL are all fair size (whatever that means) churches, and Westchester Bible Church in Westchester, IL, Southwest Community Church in SW Miami, and Stony Point Community? Church in West Chester, PA are fairly small assemblies, as is one that I completely forget the name of in St. Louis, MO, but none of these would fit this pigeonholing as to type. These just happen to be some churches I'm familiar with. Some happen to be affiliatd with the IFCA and some are not.

So I'd offer that we have both painting with too broad a brush, and 'pigeonholing' about churches, on the same thread. Some may fit one or more of these ideas, granted. Some don't.

And BTW, some of the above have extremly detailed Statements of Faith, and many times some of the them are very similar. Some, I don't know about.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

In response too the OP, you have a somewhat loosely affiliated group known as the Independant Fundamental Churches of America, or IFCA, for short. I'd suggest this might approach what you are referring to.

Ed

 

[gb93433]

When I posted this thread, I meant no disrespect towards the non- Denom. Church, I merely wanted to discuss this topic, not attack it.


Here in Houston there are a lot of churches that are here for entertainment, kinda of a speech with the bible thrown in it somwhere , does that make sense?


I enjoy everyones opinion, I just want to see what the thoughts about this type of church are.

In Houston there are over 500 SBC churches. So I am sure you could find one church where you could serve and show the others the error of their ways by winning the city to Christ. The time is too short to spend one minute on churches that are sicky sweet but rather spend your life making disciples like Jesus did. False teachers were around when Jesus and His disciples were and they will always be around.

 

[hill]

They are another (of many) subtle ways for people to keep from deciding once and for all what they will do with Christ. They are entertainment only and Bible doctrine and growth in the scripture are almost never accomplished. They are deluded into thinking they must be saved because, look at all these happy people. The pious are always found in great abundance here.

 

[rbell]

When I posted this thread, I meant no disrespect towards the non- Denom. Church, I merely wanted to discuss this topic, not attack it.

I enjoy everyones opinion, I just want to see what the thoughts about this type of church are.

A commendable thing. I apologize for questioning your motives.

 

[BobRyan]

I agree that these independant congregations have a range of preaching styles that go all the way from "almost no Bible" to "a lot of Bible" David Jeremiah.

KEYS:

#1. A Charismatic presentation by the pastor.
#2. A lot of enthusiastic congregational singing - emphasis for young-adult and youth.
#3. Drama/Plays enacting some spiritual principle.
#4. All Funds primarily consumed at the local level
#5. A lot of mid-week programs
#6. A strong emphasis on child-care services.

And in the case of Willow Creek - and other's like it -

#7. A strong commitment expected of the members - in terms of time, belief and practice.
#8. A strong focus on reaching the unchurched by carefully selecting the words spoken from the front, and the way things are laid out as you come into the sanctuary.

-----------------------------

Very little emphasis on doctrinal based Bible studies or issues that would "differ" from denomination to denomination.

Very high interest in going through a book of the Bible and highlighting interesting background facts and associated stories.

In Christ,

Bob