The Message--ARRRGGGHHHH!!!

[Rippon]

I find it interesting. J.I.Packer was the general editor of the ESV. I admire him a great deal (except for his involvement with the E&CT document). He had good things to say about the NLT ""I think the New Living [Translation] is --it is brilliantly done..."

I idn't really know much about the TNIV just figured it's worse than the 84 edition. Yet the NLT uses more inclusive language than the TNIV. It is hard to fathom the inconsistency of these guys. Even Ryken and son had a book on Bible basics and used the NLT as the primary text.

Packer is known to put out book blurbs by the thousands over the years. Here is what he said about The Message:

"Eugene Peterson's blend of accurate scholarship and vivid idiom makes this rendering both distinctive and distinguished. The Message catches the logical flow,personal energy,and imaginative overtones of the original very well indeed."

Yet the TNIV and NIV 2011 are not up to his high standards....Huh?

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

In my Sunday School class almost every week we have a young lady who always reads to us what the Message says on the topic of the Sunday School lesson (Lifeway). I don't say anything but thanks for sharing. So far I haven't had her say anything that is far out from the Message and I hope I never do.

What would you do if a Christian in your class kept sharing what the Message said? I'm thinking about declaring to the class what the Message really is (Paraphrase) and not to be used other than checking to see What Eugene Peterson has to say on Scripture. What would you do?

This is a great post, and a sign of your spiritual maturity. For all you know, she is a new Believer, and admonishing her for the Version of God's Word she is using could be a potential stumbling block for her and sin for you. As one of my spiritual mentors once told me: we must be careful not to confuse our preferences with Doctrine, especially when you run the risk of hurting someone or causing them to stumble on their walk.

You're a good egg! :thumbs:

As you have noted, as long as it doesn't stray from the "Message," I would do precisely what you have written above. I would say that the question you would have to ask yourself is what you hope to accomplish by opening that door vs. what the potential fallout could be. Of course, prayer about it is the best course of action. Another option might be to pick up an inexpensive copy of a good Translation (usually can find them by the register at your local Lifeway) and have your spouse (provided you are not the same gender) or have the class teacher offer it to her (saying something like "Here's a great Bible for reference material for our study."). Our Lifeway study is using the HCSB, and the small ones are relatively inexpensive.

Personally, I don't like The Message (in many ways for the same reasons I am not a huge fan of Max Lucado), but it's a function of personal preference - not due to a Doctrinal issue.

Hope all is well with you and yours,
BiR

 

[go2church]

In my Sunday School class almost every week we have a young lady who always reads to us what the Message says on the topic of the Sunday School lesson (Lifeway). I don't say anything but thanks for sharing. So far I haven't had her say anything that is far out from the Message and I hope I never do.

What would you do if a Christian in your class kept sharing what the Message said? I'm thinking about declaring to the class what the Message really is (Paraphrase) and not to be used other than checking to see What Eugene Peterson has to say on Scripture. What would you do?

Why? Hardly seems like its bothering anyone but you, or am I wrong?

I welcome interaction, best chance to lovingly correct if need be

 

[JTornado1]

I don't care much for the Message. In one passage, it has
Jesus saying, "Stop turning my Father's house into a shopping mall!" Whaaaaaaaaaaat???

 

[robycop3]

The "problem" you found is in the text itself. If I remember correctly, the newer versions of the King James (1769?) translate that passage as, "Thou son of a perverse, rebellious woman!" which is essentially the same thing as SOB - actually I think it is tamer than the God-inspired text.

I think it is strange that Christians get upset when the translators/paraphrasers try to be as accurate as possible with the text. The Bible is not always "family friendly" and features some extremely violent scenes, fairly graphic sexual images and details (especially if you are familiar with the Hebrew euphemisms), and some coarse language. The translators frequently cover that up so that Christians won't get upset, but that's rather disrespectful of God's word in my opinion.

"Perverse, rebellious" is actually a quite literal rendering of the Hebrew "avah marduwth". Several versions added "woman", which is not in the Hebrew, but is implied at the end of the verse. (1 Sam. 20:30) "Avah" actually refers to wickedness or iniquity in general, not just to sexual sins. (I obtained this info from a rabbi who knows Hebrew.)

Thus, it was NOT necessary for Taylor to have placed scatology in GOD'S WORD!

 

[Baptist Believer]

I don't care much for the Message. In one passage, it has
Jesus saying, "Stop turning my Father's house into a shopping mall!" Whaaaaaaaaaaat???

What's wrong with that? The shopping mall is the modern marketplace.

With some mega-churches taking on the ambiance of shopping malls (with coffee shops, food courts, and book stores), I think it is appropriate.

 

[Baptist Believer]

"Perverse, rebellious" is actually a quite literal rendering of the Hebrew "avah marduwth". Several versions added "woman", which is not in the Hebrew, but is implied at the end of the verse. (1 Sam. 20:30) "Avah" actually refers to wickedness or iniquity in general, not just to sexual sins. (I obtained this info from a rabbi who knows Hebrew.)

Yes. What Saul said is much worse than SOB for that culture. The Living Bible actually toned it down.

The real problem is Saul. He said those things. The biblical authors simply recorded it.

Thus, it was NOT necessary for Taylor to have placed scatology in GOD'S WORD!

I think you are using the wrong word here. "Scatology" is the study of feces.

Taylor didn't "place" anything in God's word. He simply put it in more contemporary language.

The Bible has all kinds of passages in it that are not "family friendly." Have you ever taken a look at Ezekiel 23:19-21?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Thus, it was NOT necessary for Taylor to have placed scatology in GOD'S WORD!

For what it's worth, Paul used a vivid scatological reference in Philippians 3:8, although just about every translation tones it down.

So there's no room for complaint even IF Taylor had made a scatological reference.