The Messianic Kingdom?

[DHK]

Do you have any Scripture to support the above?
The Scripture is here:
Daniel 9:24-27
the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And then, as I have previously posted, here:
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
--All of these are phrases taken from the passage (9:24-27)
The passage is directed to the Jews. Christ did not bring in everlasting righteousness, did he? Is the reign of ISIS in Syria "everlasting righteousness"? Has he made an end of the sins and transgressions of the sins of the Jews, or are they increasing?

The coming of Christ was 483 years, accurately predicted. The post of Percho mentioned that and you just wrote it off. It was not 483 plus 3.5 years. It was 483 years, and many scholars have shown this and calculated it right down to the very year, if not down to the month and year. 3.5 years is way off.
After 483 years, or at that time, the Messiah will be cut off or die.
But you have his ministry beginning then. Thus you are actually off by 30 years, for that is how old he was when is ministry began. No one is off by that much. Messiah was "cut off", died, after 69 weeks or 483 years. He can't begin his ministry then.

I saw nothing in the passage from Daniel about the coming anti-Christ. The Apostle John in his epistles tells us there are many anti-Christs and there are. Communism is, many in the leftist democrat party are anti-Christs, the world is full of anti-Christs and Islam is perhaps the worst one today. There are also anti-Christs in some of the so-called churches of today.

There is also ONE Antichrist known as "the man of sin" the "beast" (Rev.13:5), "the little horn," and other names. All who teach against Christ are "anti-christs," such as the J.W.'s so it is used in a generic sense as well.
But there is only one "Antichrist," the "man of sin."
The entire 12th chapter of Daniel refers to this time--the 70th week.

Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
--The same reckoning of time is used in Revelation which also means 3 1/2 years. Daniel himself wasn't given full understanding of this revelation. Verse 11 gives the same revelation as in 9:24-27, which is also in Mat.24:15,

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
--Who is this? It is one man, the Antichrist. He is speaking to the Jews!
And therefore, it is not the Christians, but the Jews that are commanded:

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
--Those in North America cannot flee to Judea.

Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

In verse 19 I believe the picture is the Antichrist plus all the Anti-Semitic nations and their armies that have risen up against Israel and Christ and his armies (composed of both the saints in heaven and the angels). There is no contest. Even in chapter 14 the result is shown thusly:
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
--So much blood is shed. The ISV translates vs. 20 as:
Rev 14:20 The wine press was trampled outside the city, and blood flowed from the wine press as high as a horse's bridle for about 183 miles.
Ch.16:16 calls it the Battle of Armeggedon. Christ comes for his own, the Jews. The Kingdom starts shortly after.

I showed that Jesus Christ was crucified DURING the 70th week. HIS death made the continuation of bloody sacrifices in the Temple absolutely worthless, an abomination before GOD. Scripture tells us: The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind? {Proverbs 21:27} Certainly no one is more wicked than the priests who conspired with hated Rome to crucify Jesus Christ.

Christ was cut off, died, after 483 years. How does this 7 years work after his death?
Furthermore, 40 days after his resurrection, as far as Christianity was concerned there were no sacrifices. Pentecost came.
Then, from 33 A.D., the time of his death, add seven years, and you still don't get to 70 A.D. You are short 37 years. How does that add up to a week of years? It is more like five weeks of years and then some!

In 70AD GOD brought HIS judgment on Israel for their part in the death of Jesus Christ using the hated Romans. GOD also put an end to the abomination of continued blood offerings in the Temple by having the Roman soldiers destroy the Temple. GOD's use of Rome in HIS judgment of Israel is consistent with HIS use of Assyria and Babylon in the past!

The timeline is not consistent with the prophecy.
And if there is a gap of time here, there can be a gap of time elsewhere where we can look for a coming of the Lord a second time who fulfill all things as He said He would.

 

[OldRegular]

Do you have any Scripture to support the above?

You need to learn to use the quote feature!

The Scripture is here:
Daniel 9:24-27
the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

That says nothing about the final Anti-Christ. You are reading something that is not there, allegorizing I suspect!

And then, as I have previously posted, here:
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

I will respond with one simple question: Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
--All of these are phrases taken from the passage (9:24-27)
The passage is directed to the Jews. Christ did not bring in everlasting righteousness, did he? Is the reign of ISIS in Syria "everlasting righteousness"? Has he made an end of the sins and transgressions of the sins of the Jews, or are they increasing?

Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ" Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

The coming of Christ was 483 years, accurately predicted. The post of Percho mentioned that and you just wrote it off. It was not 483 plus 3.5 years. It was 483 years, and many scholars have shown this and calculated it right down to the very year, if not down to the month and year. 3.5 years is way off.
After 483 years, or at that time, the Messiah will be cut off or die.
But you have his ministry beginning then. Thus you are actually off by 30 years, for that is how old he was when is ministry began. No one is off by that much. Messiah was "cut off", died, after 69 weeks or 483 years. He can't begin his ministry then.

Again you are reading into the Scripture something that is not there. After 69 weeks means AFTER 69 weeks, not the end of 69 weeks! Jesus Christ was crucified about 3.5 years after HE started HIS ministry, the middle of the 70th week. With HIS death the bloody sacrifices in the Temple became an abomination to GOD. Nothing you write can change the truth!

There is also ONE Antichrist known as "the man of sin" the "beast" (Rev.13:5), "the little horn," and other names.

The "man of sin" is never called the Anti-Christ.

All who teach against Christ are "anti-christs," such as the J.W.'s so it is used in a generic sense as well.
But there is only one "Antichrist," the "man of sin."

The Apostle John is the only one in Scripture who uses the word anti-Christ. It appears nowhere outside his first 2 Epistles, not even in the Book of Revelation.

The entire 12th chapter of Daniel refers to this time--the 70th week.

Your eisegesis.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
--Who is this? It is one man, the Antichrist. He is speaking to the Jews!
And therefore, it is not the Christians, but the Jews that are commanded:

Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Fulfilled in 70AD

In verse 19 I believe the picture is the Antichrist plus all the Anti-Semitic nations and their armies that have risen up against Israel and Christ and his armies (composed of both the saints in heaven and the angels). There is no contest. Even in chapter 14 the result is shown thusly:
Rev 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Rev 14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
--So much blood is shed. The ISV translates vs. 20 as:
Rev 14:20 The wine press was trampled outside the city, and blood flowed from the wine press as high as a horse's bridle for about 183 miles.

Surely you do not take that as literal!

Ch.16:16 calls it the Battle of Armeggedon. Christ comes for his own, the Jews. The Kingdom starts shortly after.

A lot of Scripture and semantics but no evidence of your claim that the Anti-Christ is in the passage from Daniel 9:24-27!

Christ was cut off, died, after 483 years. How does this 7 years work after his death?

You got that right! Jesus Christ was murdered AFTER the 483 years, that means HE was murdered during the 70th week and everything dispensationalism claims about Daniels 70th week is pure fiction..

Furthermore, 40 days after his resurrection, as far as Christianity was concerned there were no sacrifices. Pentecost came.
Then, from 33 A.D., the time of his death, add seven years, and you still don't get to 70 A.D. You are short 37 years. How does that add up to a week of years? It is more like five weeks of years and then some!

You make the same mistake as others. I have said NOTHING about 70AD being the end of the 70th week. i simply state that is when GOD brought judgment on Israel for their slaughter of Jesus Christ and that in doing so HE destroyed the Temple where the abomination of bloody sacrifices continued.

The timeline is not consistent with the prophecy.
And if there is a gap of time here, there can be a gap of time elsewhere where we can look for a coming of the Lord a second time who fulfill all things as He said He would.

Only in your faulty interpretation.

 

[DHK]

You got that right! Jesus Christ was murdered AFTER the 483 years, that means HE was murdered during the 70th week and everything dispensationalism claims about Daniels 70th week is pure fiction..

Christ was murdered "after" 483 years." When was that?
Keil and Deilitizsch say this:

After the threescore and two weeks, i.e., in the seventieth שָׁבוּעַ, shall the Messiah be cut off. - From the אַחֲרֵי (after) it does not with certainty follow that the “cutting off” of the Maschiach falls wholly in the beginning of the seventieth week, but only that the “cutting off” shall constitute the first great event of this week, and that those things which are mentioned in the remaining part of the verse shall then follow. The complete designation of the time of the “cutting off” can only be found from the whole contents of Dan_9:26, Dan_9:27. נִכְרַת, from כָּרַּת, to hew down, to fell, to cut to pieces, signifies to be rooted up, destroyed, annihilated, and denotes generally a violent kind of death

The הַבָּא with the article: “he who comes, or will come,” denotes much rather the נָגִיד (which is without the article) as such an one whose coming is known, of whom Daniel has heard that he will come to destroy the people of God. But in the earlier revelations Daniel heard of two princes who shall bring destruction on his people: in Dan_7:8, Dan_7:24., of Antichrist; and in Dan_8:9., 23ff., of Antiochus. To one of these the הַבָּא points. Which of the two is meant must be gathered from the connection, and this excludes the reference to Antiochus, and necessitates our thinking of the Antichrist.

The prince shall find his end in his warlike expedition; and the article in בַּשֶׁטֶף would refer back to הַבָּא. This interpretation is indeed quite possible, but not very probable, because שֶׁטֶף would then be the overflowing which was caused by the hostile prince or his coming, and the thought would be this, that he should perish in it. But this agrees neither with the following clause, that war should be to the end, nor with Dan_7:21, Dan_7:26, according to which the enemy of God holds the superiority till he is destroyed by the judgment of God. Accordingly, we agree with Wieseler, Hofmann, Kranichfeld, and Kliefoth in adopting the other interpretation of שֶׁטֶף, flood, as the figure of the desolating judgment of God, and explain the article as an allusion to the flood which overwhelmed Pharaoh and his host.

The thought is therefore this: “Till the end war will be, for desolations are irrevocably determined by God.” Since שֹׁמֵמוֹת has nothing qualifying it, we may not limit the “decree of desolations” to the laying waste of the city and the sanctuary, but under it there are to be included the desolations which the fall of the prince who destroys the city and the sanctuary shall bring along with it.

the question then presses itself upon us, Who effects the confirming of the covenant?
The one week shall make the covenant grievous to many, for they shall have to bear oppression on account of their faith. On the other hand, Hofmann (Schriftbew.) renders it: The one week shall confirm many in their fidelity to the faith. But none of these interpretations can be justified.

The connection much more indicates that Nagid is the subject to הִגְבִּיר, since the prince who was to come is named last, and is also the subject in the suffix of קִצּוֹ (his end), the last clause of Dan_9:26 having only the significance of an explanatory subordinate clause. Also “the taking away of the daily sacrifice combines itself in a natural way with the destruction (Dan_9:26) of the city and the temple brought about by the הַבָּא נָגִיד;” - further, “he who here is represented as 'causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease' is obviously identical with him who changes (Dan_7:25) the times and usages of worship (more correctly: times and law)” (Kran.). “The reference of הִגְבִּיר to the ungodly leader of an army, is therefore according to the context and the parallel passages of this book which have been mentioned, as well as in harmony with the natural grammatical arrangement of the passage,” and it gives also a congruous sense, although by the Nagid Titus cannot naturally be understood. בְּרִית הִגְבִּיר means to strengthen a covenant, i.e., to make a covenant strong (Hitzig has not established the rendering: to make grievous).

Therefore the thought is this: That ungodly prince shall impose on the mass of the people a strong covenant that they should follow him and give themselves to him as their God.

While the first clause of this verse announces what shall happen during the whole of the last week, the second treats only of the half of this period. הַשָׁבוּעַ חֲצִי

For, with reference to that remark, we have already shown in the explanation of the preceding verses that they do not refer to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, and thus are not reconcilable with this interpretation of שִׁקּוּצִים כְּנַף. But the testimony of tradition for this interpretation in Josephus, De bello Jud. iv. 6. 3, that by the desecration of the temple on the part of the Zealots an old prophecy regarding the destruction of the temple was fulfilled, itself demonstrates (under the supposition that no other passage occur in the book of Daniel in which Josephus would be able to find the announcement of bloody abomination in the temple which proceeded even from the members of the covenant people) nothing further than that Josephus, with many of his contemporaries, found such a prophecy in this verse in the Alexandrine translation, but it does not warrant the correctness of this interpretation of the passage. This warrant would certainly be afforded by the words of our Lord regarding “the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place” (Mat_24:15.; Mar_13:14), if it were decided that the Lord had this passage (Dan_9:27) alone before His mind, and that He regarded the “abomination of desolation” as a sign announcing the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. But neither of these conditions is established. The expression βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως is found not only in Dan_9:27 (where the lxx and Theod. have the plur. ἐρημώσεων), but also in Dan_11:31 (βδ. ἐρημώσεως) and Dan_12:11 (τὸ βδ. τῆς ἐρημώσεως), and thus may refer to one of these passages. The possibility of this reference is not weakened by the objection, “that the prophecy Daniel 11 and Dan_12:1-13 was generally regarded as fulfilled in the Maccabean times, and that the fulfilling of Daniel 9 was placed forward into the future in the time of Christ” (Hgstb.), because the Lord can have a deeper and more correct apprehension of the prophecies of Daniel than the Jewish writers of His time;

On these grounds we must affirm that the reference of the words under consideration to the desecration of the temple before the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans is untenable.

Let us now, after explaining the separate clauses, present briefly the substance of this divine revelation. We find that the Dan_9:25-27 contain the following announcement: From the going forth of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the appearance of the Messias seven weeks shall pass away; after that, during threescore and two weeks the city shall be restored and built up amid the oppressions of the times; but after the sixty-two weeks the Messias shall be cut off, so that to Him nothing remains, and the city, together with the sanctuary, shall be destroyed by the people of a prince who shall come, who shall find his end in the flood; but the war shall continue to the end, since destruction is irrevocably decreed. That prince shall force a strong covenant for one week on the mass of the people, and during half a week shall take away the service of sacrifice, and, borne on the wings of idol-abominations, shall carry on a desolating rule, till the firmly decreed judgment shall pour itself upon him as one desolated. - According to this, the first seven weeks are determined merely according to their beginning and their end, and nothing further is said as to their contents than may be concluded from the definition of its terminus a quo, “to restore and to build Jerusalem,” namely, that the restoring and the building of this city shall proceed during the period of time indicated. The sixty-two weeks which follow these seven weeks, ending with the coming of the Messias, have the same contents, only with the more special definition, that the restoration and the building in the broad open place and in the limited place shall be carried on in oppressive times. Hence it is clear that this restoration and building cannot denote the rebuilding of the city which was destroyed by the Chaldeans, but refers to the preservation and extension of Jerusalem to the measure and compass determined by God in the Messianic time, or under the dominion of the Messias, since He shall come at the end of the seven weeks, and after the expiry of the sixty-two weeks connected therewith shall be cut off, so that nothing remains to Him.

 

[DHK]

The seventieth week ends, according to Dan_9:27, with the judgment on the destroyer of the city and the sanctuary of God; but with this judgment shall be the conclusion of the divine counsel of salvation, or the kingdom of God shall be consummated. This was revealed to the prophet in Daniel 7, and thus does not need to be here expressly repeated. If that which, according to Dan_9:24, shall happen with the expiry of the seventy appointed weeks stood after Dan_9:27, then would the connection of the judgment on the last enemy of God with the consummation of the kingdom of God appear here also distinctly to view. But it was not necessary after Daniel 7 to give express prominence to this connection here; and Gabriel here first mentions the positive aim and end of the divine plan of salvation with Israel, because he gives to the prophet a comforting answer to remove his deep distress on account of his own sins, and the sin and guilt of his people, and therein cannot conceal the severe affliction which the future would bring, because he will announce to him that by the sins of the people the working out of the deliverance designed by God for them shall not be frustrated, but that in spite of the great guilt of Israel the kingdom of God shall be perfected in glory, sin and iniquity blotted out, everlasting righteousness restored, the prophecy of the judgment and of salvation completed, and the sanctuary where God shall in truth dwell among His people erected. In order to establish this promise, so rich in comfort, and firmly to ratify it to Daniel he unveils to him (Dan_9:25-27), in its great outlines, the progress of the development of the kingdom of God, first from the end of the Exile to the coming of the Messias; then from the appearance of Christ to the time far in the future, when Christ shall be cut off, so that nothing remains to Him; and finally, the time of the supremacy and of the victory of the destroyer of the church of God, the Antichrist, and the destruction of this enemy by the irrevocably determined final judgment. If, now, in this he says nothing particular regarding the first period of this development, regarding the time from the Exile to Christ, the reason is, that he had already said all that was necessary regarding the development of the world-kingdom, and its relation to the kingdom and people of God, in the preceding revelation in Daniel 8.

This is from Keil and Delitzsch commentary on the OT.
Franz Delitzsch lived 1813-1890, and from this passage exegetes a dispensational point of view. He was a Hebrew scholar, though certainly not conservative in his viewpoints.

 

[OldRegular]

DHK

I really don't care what Keil and Delitzsch say. I can present comments from Conservative Scholars who dispute that view. I simply consider that Scripture teaches that AFTER 69 weeks or 483 years Jesus Christ was murdered. That means DURING the 70th week!

 

[DHK]

DHK

I really don't care what Keil and Delitzsch say. I can present comments from Conservative Scholars who dispute that view. I simply consider that Scripture teaches that AFTER 69 weeks or 483 years Jesus Christ was murdered. That means DURING the 70th week!

No it doesn't. It means before the 70th week begins. It does not mean "within the 70th week." There is no way that you can get that out of that passage.

 

[OldRegular]

No it doesn't. It means before the 70th week begins. It does not mean "within the 70th week." There is no way that you can get that out of that passage.

AFTER the 69th week means AFTER the 69th week which means the 70th week has started. Remaining Scripture shows that Jesus Christ was crucified after 3.5 years, the middle of the 70th week. It is only through the death of Jesus Christ that the sacrifice and oblation would become useless. There is no way you can honestly get anything else out of the passage. All the stuff you have posted falsely assume a gap between the 69th and 70th week. There is absolutely nothing in that passage, Daniel 9:24-27, that warrants such a gap. It is simply one more erroneous interpretation of Scripture to support the false doctrine of pre-tribulationsim! My suggestion, DHK, is quit digging; but the hole is far too deep to climb out of so I guess it really doesn't matter.

 

[Iconoclast]

Philip Mauro on the 70th week of Daniel 9 answers DHK.

 

[DHK]

AFTER the 69th week means AFTER the 69th week which means the 70th week has started. Remaining Scripture shows that Jesus Christ was crucified after 3.5 years, the middle of the 70th week. It is only through the death of Jesus Christ that the sacrifice and oblation would become useless. There is no way you can honestly get anything else out of the passage. All the stuff you have posted falsely assume a gap between the 69th and 70th week. There is absolutely nothing in that passage, Daniel 9:24-27, that warrants such a gap. It is simply one more erroneous interpretation of Scripture to support the false doctrine of pre-tribulationsim! My suggestion, DHK, is quit digging; but the hole is far too deep to climb out of so I guess it really doesn't matter.

You are contradicting what scripture says.
Daniel didn't say: "within the 70th week," or "in the middle of the 70th week," etc. In fact he gave no reference at all to the death of Christ being in the 70th week. He could have. It would have been much easier to put in words that way, to be expressed that way. But that is not the way it was written.
He wrote "after (or at the end) of 69 weeks." Not at the beginning of the 70th and certainly not in the middle of the 70th week. It just does not say that. The 70th week stands alone. The Lord is crucified long before that time. There is no Messiah mentioned there.

There is a prince, but he is a wicked prince as the context and other paraphrases bear out. He is called "that foreigner," for a good reason.

Daniel 9:24-27
the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What covenant did Christ make with the Jews for one week? Can you locate that in history? What is it called? It would be (according to you) 3.5 years before his death, and a promise to the Jews lasting for seven years.

In verse 26 is a prophesy of the destruction of Jerusalem. True or false?
It is true. By whom was the city of Jerusalem destroyed? Titus?
Titus was a Roman general.
It says the people of that prince that shall come destroy the city. It happened. Titus destroyed Jerusalem. But that is only a partial fulfillment. Not everything was fulfilled. There will be another "prince" like Titus that is still to come, but even more evil.
The "he" in verse 27 refers right back to Titus, or "prince."
Christ did not confirm any covenant with the Jews for one week, but a foreigner will, that is one who is not a Jew.
He is the rider of the white horse in Revelation 6--one who pretends to bring peace but in reality brings war and destruction. He has a bow but no arrows. He will conquer without arms--through treaties. Note the treaties that Obama is making with Iran and Israel right now. (trying to neutralize Israel, and arm Iran.) But the peace will be a false peace, for he himself will break it after 3.5 years.
This is directed to Jews.

Now aside from that, you toss aside all the scholarly work of others who have determined the exact date and even month that Christ was "cut off." Many have done this and shown the accuracy of this prophecy. You don't give any date at all. You don't say when 483 years is. You just throw 3.5 years at the end of it and say that is when Christ died (whenever history that may be), and that is it. You have no regard for history here. You give no date, no scholarship. You have disregarded all other evidence. Here is a prophecy calculated right down to the year and even month.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
--There is a starting point and an ending point. There is a decree that went out. It has a date, and even a month and a day. It has an exact calculation of 483 years. It is a careless disregard for scripture not to pay attention to such an exact period of time, and then just to slap a 3.5 years on the end of it, and say "that is when Christ died." How can that be??

 

[OldRegular]

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
--There is a starting point and an ending point. There is a decree that went out. It has a date, and even a month and a day. It has an exact calculation of 483 years. It is a careless disregard for scripture not to pay attention to such an exact period of time, and then just to slap a 3.5 years on the end of it, and say "that is when Christ died." How can that be??

You said it correctly:

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off,

Then Scripture states in Verse 27: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, Only one thing could cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease or become an abomination, the Death of Jesus Christ. In Hebrews we read:

Hebrews 8:13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Hebrews 11:9-14
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The doctrine of pre-tribulation is a fantasy created by weaving certain Scripture together to teach that there will be a dispensation for the Jews after the "parenthesis" Church is "snatched" out of the world to make way for a Jewish millennium. There is no Scripture that teaches Jesus Christ died for National Israel. Therefore, the pre-trib-doctrine makes a grevious mockery of the incarnation, ministry, and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ who alone is Savior, indeed making HIS death a "parenthesis" in GOD's program for Israel!!

 

[DHK]

You said it correctly:

Then Scripture states in Verse 27: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, Only one thing could cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease or become an abomination, the Death of Jesus Christ.

That "he" refers to someone very evil. It refers to the prince to come of verse 26, not to the Messiah. It is not speaking of Christ. Christ is not evil.
Furthermore, what covenant of seven years did Christ make with the Jews?

In Hebrews we read:

Hebrews 8:13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

What covenant of seven years did Christ break after 3.5 years?

Hebrews 11:9-14
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The doctrine of pre-tribulation is a fantasy created by weaving certain Scripture together to teach that there will be a dispensation for the Jews after the "parenthesis" Church is "snatched" out of the world to make way for a Jewish millennium. There is no Scripture that teaches Jesus Christ died for National Israel. Therefore, the pre-trib-doctrine makes a grevious mockery of the incarnation, ministry, and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ who alone is Savior, indeed making HIS death a "parenthesis" in GOD's program for Israel!!

What covenant did Christ make with the Jews and break it after 3.5 years?

 

[OldRegular]

Philip Mauro on the 70th week of Daniel 9 answers DHK.

Thanks for the info. Have Mauro's book on my Kindle and also my computer where it is easier to read. Taking a quick glance he says essentially the same about the end of 69 weeks as being the start of the Ministry of Jesus Christ and his crucifixion at the middle of the 70th week. He also states as I have that it is the death of Jesus Christ that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The fact that they persisted until the Temple was destroyed simply means they were an abomination before GOD!

 

[OldRegular]

That "he" refers to someone very evil. It refers to the prince to come of verse 26, not to the Messiah. It is not speaking of Christ. Christ is not evil.

You should be careful who you call evil.

Furthermore, what covenant of seven years did Christ make with the Jews?

He established the New Covenant according to Hebrews as i noted above.

What covenant of seven years did Christ break after 3.5 years?

Scripture does not say a covenant was broken. Your dispensational training is being dead into every word of Scripture. Scripture says HE caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. I have explained that numerous times.

What covenant did Christ make with the Jews and break it after 3.5 years?

Again your dispensational training is showing. jesus Christ did not break a covenant HE established the New Covenant.

Scripture tells us:

Matthew 5:17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Jesus Christ by HIS perfect obedience and sacrificial death on the Cross fulfilled the Law, just as HE said! By HIS sacrificial death HE established the New Covenant as i have shown from Hebrews!

You really need to respond to my post #82, particularly the following:

Originally Posted by DHK
And then, as I have previously posted, here:
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

I will respond with one simple question: Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

Originally Posted by DHK
All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
--All of these are phrases taken from the passage (9:24-27)
The passage is directed to the Jews. Christ did not bring in everlasting righteousness, did he? Is the reign of ISIS in Syria "everlasting righteousness"? Has he made an end of the sins and transgressions of the sins of the Jews, or are they increasing?

Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ" Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

 

[revmwc]

Do you have any Scripture to support the above?

I saw nothing in the passage from Daniel about the coming anti-Christ. The Apostle John in his epistles tells us there are many anti-Christs and there are. Communism is, many in the leftist democrat party are anti-Christs, the world is full of anti-Christs and Islam is perhaps the worst one today. There are also anti-Christs in some of the so-called churches of today.

I showed that Jesus Christ was crucified DURING the 70th week. HIS death made the continuation of bloody sacrifices in the Temple absolutely worthless, an abomination before GOD. Scripture tells us: The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind? {Proverbs 21:27} Certainly no one is more wicked than the priests who conspired with hated Rome to crucify Jesus Christ.

In 70AD GOD brought HIS judgment on Israel for their part in the death of Jesus Christ using the hated Romans. GOD also put an end to the abomination of continued blood offerings in the Temple by having the Roman soldiers destroy the Temple. GOD's use of Rome in HIS judgment of Israel is consistent with HIS use of Assyria and Babylon in the past!

Keil & Delitzsch make it clear what the Hebrew says about verse 27

Quote:
"Hävernick, Hengstenberg, and Auberlen regard the Messias as the subject, and understand by the confirming of the covenant, the confirming of the New Covenant by the death of Christ. Ewald, v. Lengerke, and others think of Antiochus and the many covenants which, according to 1 Macc. 1:12, he established between the apostate Jews and the heathen Greeks. Hitzig understands by the “covenant” the O.T. Covenant, and gives to הגבּיר the meaning to make grievous: The one week shall make the covenant grievous to many, for they shall have to bear oppression on account of their faith. On the other hand, Hofmann (Schriftbew.) renders it: The one week shall confirm many in their fidelity to the faith. But none of these interpretations can be justified. The reasons which Hengstenberg adduces in support of his view that the Messias is the subject, are destitute of validity. The assertion that the Messias is the chief person spoken of in the whole of this passage, rests on the supposition, already proved to be untenable, that the prince who was to come (Daniel 9:26) was the instrument of the Anointed, and on the passages in Isaiah 53:11; Isaiah 42:6, which are not parallel to that under consideration. The connection much more indicates that Nagid is the subject to הגבּיר, since the prince who was to come is named last, and is also the subject in the suffix of קצּו (his end), the last clause of Daniel 9:26 having only the significance of an explanatory subordinate clause. Also “the taking away of the daily sacrifice combines itself in a natural way with the destruction (Daniel 9:26) of the city and the temple brought about by the הבּא נגיד;” - further, “he who here is represented as 'causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease' is obviously identical with him who changes (Daniel 7:25) the times and usages of worship (more correctly: times and law)” (Kran.). “The reference of הגבּיר to the ungodly leader of an army, is therefore according to the context and the parallel passages of this book which have been mentioned, as well as in harmony with the natural grammatical arrangement of the passage,” and it gives also a congruous sense, although by the Nagid Titus cannot naturally be understood. בּרית הגבּיר means to strengthen a covenant, i.e., to make a covenant strong (Hitzig has not established the rendering: to make grievous). “Covenant” does not necessarily mean the covenant of God (Old Testament or New Testament Covenant), since the assertion that this word occurs only in this book with reference to the covenant of God with Israel (Hgstb.) does not also prove that it must here have this meaning; and with expression בּרית הגבּיר with ל is analogous to בּרית כּרּת [icere faedus] with ל; and the construction with ל signifies that as in the forming of a covenant, so in the confirming of a covenant, the two contracting parties are not viewed as standing on an equality, but he who concludes or who confirms the covenant prevails, and imposes or forces the covenant on the other party. The reference to the covenant of God with man is thus indeed suggested, yet it is not rendered necessary, but only points to a relation analogous to the concluding of a covenant emanating from God. לרבּים with the article signifies the many, i.e., the great mass of the people in contrast with the few, who remain faithful to God; cf. Matthew 24:12. Therefore the thought is this: That ungodly prince shall impose on the mass of the people a strong covenant that they should follow him and give themselves to him as their God.
While the first clause of this verse announces what shall happen during the whole of the last week, the second treats only of the half of this period. השׁבוּע חצי we cannot grammatically otherwise interpret than the definition of time mentioned immediately before, and thus, for reasons give above, cannot take it as the subject of the clause, but only as the accusative of the duration of time, consequently not in the sense of the ablative: in the midst of the week. The controversy whether חצי here means half, or midst, has no bearing on the matter, and acquires significance only if we interpret חצי, in opposition to the context, as synonymous with בּחצי, or with Klief., which is equally untenable and impossible in this context, regard השׁבוּע חצי as an absolute definition. חצי signifies only half, not midst. Only where the representation of an extent of space or period of time prevails can we render it, without a change of its meaning, by the word midst. In the half of the night is the same as in the middle of the night, at midnight, Exodus 12:29; in the half of the firmament, Joshua 10:13, is the same as in the middle of the space of the heavens across which the sun moves during day; in the half of the day of life is the same as in the middle of the period of life, Psalm 102:25. But during the half of the week is not the same as: in the middle of the week. And the objection, that if we here take חצי in the sense of half, then the heptad or cycle of seven would be divided into two halves (Klief.), and yet of only one of them was anything said, is without significance, because it would touch also the explanation “and in the midst of the heptad,” since in this case of the first, before the middle of the expiring half of the week, nothing also is said of what shall be done in it. If Kliefoth answers this objection by saying that we must conceive of this from the connection, namely, that which brings the power of Antichrist to its height, then we shall be able also, in the verbally correct interpretation of השׁבוּע חצי, to conceive from the connection what shall happen in the remaining period of the שׁבוּע. Yet weaker is the further objection: “that which is mentioned as coming to pass השׁבוּע חצי, the causing of the offering of sacrifice to cease, is something which takes place not during a period of time, but at a terminus” (Kliefoth); for since השׁבּית does not properly mean to remove, but to make to rest, to make quiet, it is thus not conceivable why we should not be able to say: The sacrifice shall be made to rest, or made still, during half a week."

 

[DHK]

He established the New Covenant according to Hebrews as i noted above.

He shall confirm the covenant for one week.
A week is for seven years. When did it begin and when did it end?

 

[OldRegular]

He shall confirm the covenant for one week.
A week is for seven years. When did it begin and when did it end?

Daniel 9:26 tells us that Jesus Christ was slaughtered AFTER the 69th week. Daniel 9:27 tells us that Jesus Christ was slaughtered in the MIDDLE of the 70th week. That slaughter was through the CONNIVANCE of the Jews with the Romans they HATED; but they HATED their Messiah more. That is a fact of Scripture. Live with it!

I use the word slaughtered because that is what Scripture says:

Isaiah 53:7. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Acts 8:32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

Revelation 5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

 

[DHK]

Daniel 9:26 tells us that Jesus Christ was slaughtered AFTER the 69th week. Daniel 9:27 tells us that Jesus Christ was slaughtered in the MIDDLE of the 70th week. That slaughter was through the CONNIVANCE of the Jews with the Romans they HATED; but they HATED their Messiah more. That is a fact of Scripture. Live with it!

I use the word slaughtered because that is what Scripture says:

Isaiah 53:7. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Acts 8:32. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

Revelation 5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

The verse plainly says:
"He (which you interpret to be Christ) shall confirm the covenant for one week."
Give the dates, or when, did Christ ever confirm or make a covenant with the Jews for a period of seven years?
Why can't you answer this question?

 

[OldRegular]

DHK, Did the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplish nothing?

The verse plainly says:
"He (which you interpret to be Christ) shall confirm the covenant for one week."
Give the dates, or when, did Christ ever confirm or make a covenant with the Jews for a period of seven years?
Why can't you answer this question?

The sentence should read And he {Messiah} shall confirm [cause to prevail}the covenant with many for one week:

First the word Israel or Jew does not appear in the sentence so your assumption that the statement is talking about the Jews is incorrect. The Messiah shall cause a covenant to prevail for the many! What does the Scripture tell us:

Daniel 9:26,27, KJV
26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

In verse 26 we are told that AFTER 69 weeks Jesus Christ {the Messiah} shall be murdered, but not for Himself. In Isaiah 53:8 we are told: He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. In Daniel 9:26 we see fulfillment of Isaiah 53, the death of Jesus Christ for the MANY people of God.

In verse 27 we are told that HE, the Messiah of verse 26, not the prince of verse 26, shall cause a Covenant to prevail with the MANY, no reference to Jew or Israel, but to many! In verse 27 we are told exactly when HE, Jesus Christ, shall be murdered, the middle of the 70th week. What is certain is that the slaughter of Jesus Christ in the middle of the 70th week initiated the New Covenant and brought to an end the institution of the provisional blood sacrifice of animals, and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,.

Further blood offerings in the Temple by wicked men were an abomination before GOD as I have stated many times.

DHK, I can produce various statements from Conservative writers regarding the end of the 70th week. I have been careful not to mention any of them. The one thing I have repeatedly stated is that GOD stopped the abomination of the bloody sacrifices in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by Rome as Jesus Christ promised in Matthew 24.

I have asked you two questions in my post #82 which you totally ignore. I will pose them again:

Originally Posted by DHK
And then, as I have previously posted, here:
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

I will respond with one simple question: Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

Originally Posted by DHK
All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
--All of these are phrases taken from the passage (9:24-27)
The passage is directed to the Jews. Christ did not bring in everlasting righteousness, did he? Is the reign of ISIS in Syria "everlasting righteousness"? Has he made an end of the sins and transgressions of the sins of the Jews, or are they increasing?

Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ" Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

Now you answer some questions instead of asking them!

 

[DHK]

The verse plainly says:
"He (which you interpret to be Christ) shall confirm the covenant for one week."
Give the dates, or when, did Christ ever confirm or make a covenant with the Jews for a period of seven years?
Why can't you answer this question?

In your post you still avoided this question. Why?
If Christ died in the midst of this week, 3.5 years in, which was 33 A.D., according to most, then what great event happened in 30 A.D, and then again in 37 A.D.--a stretch of 7 years?
He shall confirm the covenant for seven years (one week). What would be significant about 30 A.D.? What happened in 30 A.D. in the life of Christ, 3.5 years before He died that he made a covenant of any kind with who??
What happened in 37 A.D. 3.5 years after He died. The destruction of Jerusalem was not in 37 A.D. Thus even you believe in a gap, just like your "rapture-ready" friends do. You can't deny it, or runaway from it. There is a gap you are ignoring of at least 33 years? What happened?

 

[OldRegular]

DHK, Did the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplish nothing?

In your post you still avoided this question.

I did respond.

Why?

Respond to my questions DHK! They are simple so you should have no difficulty. I will post them again:

You really need to respond to my post #82, particularly the following:

Originally Posted by DHK
And then, as I have previously posted, here:
These events have yet to occur:
What are the events mentioned:
--to finish the transgression.
--to make an end of sins
--to make reconciliation for iniquity.
--to bring in everlasting righteousness.
--to seal up the vision and prophecy.
--to anoint a most holy place. (vs. 24)

I will respond with one simple question: Are you saying the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross accomplished NOTHING?

Originally Posted by DHK
All these events have to do with the Jewish people.
All these events will take place within that 70th week.
--All of these are phrases taken from the passage (9:24-27)
The passage is directed to the Jews. Christ did not bring in everlasting righteousness, did he? Is the reign of ISIS in Syria "everlasting righteousness"? Has he made an end of the sins and transgressions of the sins of the Jews, or are they increasing?

Was righteousness imputed to you because of your "faith in Jesus Christ" Is that righteousness everlasting or does it come and go?

If Christ died in the midst of this week, 3.5 years in, which was 33 A.D., according to most, then what great event happened in 30 A.D, and then again in 37 A.D.--a stretch of 7 years?
He shall confirm the covenant for seven years (one week). What would be significant about 30 A.D.? What happened in 30 A.D. in the life of Christ, 3.5 years before He died that he made a covenant of any kind with who??
What happened in 37 A.D. 3.5 years after He died.

Jesus Christ was Baptized before HE started HIS ministry. That is the Great event.

He died for the Sins of the People of God, the MANY, 3.5 years after HE started HIS ministry in the middle of the 70th week at the hands to two evil groups of people, the Jews and Rome. But HE came forth out of the grave 3 days later. So we have the two greatest events in history in case you don't understand the significance.

Stephen was stoned and Paul was converted about 3.5 years later. And I am not saying that is the end of the 70th week. But whatever it was happened about 2000 years ago and to claim otherwise is sheer nonsense!

The destruction of Jerusalem was not in 37 A.D. Thus even you believe in a gap, just like your "rapture-ready" friends do. You can't deny it, or runaway from it. There is a gap you are ignoring of at least 33 years? What happened?

That is a lie and you know it. I have never tied the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem in 70AD to the end of the 70th week. I repeat that on almost every post because of false accusations by you and 'rm'.

Now DHK I ask two simple questions above for about the 4th time. You respond to them!