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The Miami Felons strike again...

EdSutton

New Member
It looks like FIU has at least turned down the right road.
UM, so far has touched the brakes, and put on the turn signal.

Both the ACC and Sun Belt Comissioners have said the right things.
And the NCAA will vow to 'crack-down' on such things in the future, including issuing statements about 'such will not be tolerated' in the future, come up with
some new statements and positions about 'crowd-taunting' and pointing to the crowd, etc. Oh yeah! AND the officials will be 'briefed' on the new 'guidelines'. AND Larry Coker may well lose his job over this!

Here's my own not-so-humble opinion of what SHOULD occur. (And I assure you, I'll not hold my breath waiting for it to happen.)

There needs to be a big pow-wow with the NCAA, the ACC and Sun Belt Comissioners, the Administration and Athletics Directors of both UM and FIU, and the NCAA should declare the game a 'double-forfeit', and saddle both teams with a loss, and bar both schools from Bowl participation, for five years, or thru the first 'Bowl-eligible' year, whichever comes first. Further, any players who might transfer would still be under the same ban, with any new team they might transfer to. That will virtually assure that any and all members of both teams, as well as both schools involved, will miss one potential bowl game.
Second, the officials that let this game get out of control, in the first place, should be relieved for the rest of the year, and should they work again in the future, not as a unit, to guard against this sort of thing happening again.
Third, a few of the rules should be changed or strengthened, as to penalties.
"Trash talking" should get a first warning, and a second offense by an individual on the field gets an automatic unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. Trash talking from the bench gets the same treatment except for being assessed against a particular individual. The second offense from the bench gets recorded against the individual involved. (That will figure in a later suggestion.) The third offense from the sidelines results in the disqualification of the head coach for the game, who must leave the playing field. A fourth offense results in forfeiture of the game by the team involved. 'Bench jockeying' is a long established tradition in baseball, without the attendant venom. Football can have the same, if the powers-that-be so choose, without the "getting in your face" bit.
The personal fouls of late hits, hits out-of-bounds, 'roughing' a passer or kicker, spearing, helmet removal, kicking a down player, fists, flagrant unnecessary roughness, plus all unsportsmanlike conduct in direct language or gestures should be made cumulative. A second infraction by any player on one of these calls results in disqualification for the remainder of the game, and an ensuing one-game suspension. Two such disqualifications in a season result in automatic ineligibility and permanent suspension from college football, for the individual, plus a fine on the institution.
Third, penalties should be cumulative, as well, and should not offset as they often do now. In other words, if three flags are thrown, all three penalties are enforced as to distance and result, except where this would reward one team unfairly. Example: Offensive and defensive holding on the same play should offset, as the automatic first down for defensive holding gives an unfair advantage. Offsides and illegal motion should offset as they are both five yards. Offsides and defensive holding should not, resulting in a five yard differential but the down is replayed, from the new spot. Offside, offensive holding and defensive holding on the same play are all enforced, with the resultant 'new first down' from the same spot.
The Conferences should fine both schools the visitor's guaranteed monies, and use it for financial need scholarships for students at all the conference schools, on an equal basis. This would ensure that this money goes where it actually should do some small amount of good.
And I hope Larry Coker does not 'take the fall' alone for this, although I assure you, I am no Miami fan, in the least, these days. I have been a Miami fan in any way, exactly two times in the past; As a Kentuckian when Howard Schnellenberger was the coach in the 80s, and in the late 60s and early 70s when Charlie Tate was the coach, and I was good friends with his oldest (I believe) daughter, who was an outstanding Christian, a beautiful and talented young lady who happened to work at the Christian Book Store I frequented while I was in Bible College, and was active in a ministry I was also involved in. Aside from that, they have been and are a team I 'love to hate' for the most part. That's my take, overall. And I'll still not hold my breath waiting.

Ed
 
Last edited by a moderator:

EdSutton

New Member
webdog said:
What I don't understand is why did the network continue filming the entire fight, and not go to commercial? We don't need to see that garbage...our kids don't need to see that. The networks will not show someone run onto the field from the stands and dance...but they will show a gang brawl?
Good point! :thumbsup:

Ed
 

EdSutton

New Member
FriendofSpurgeon said:
Regarding UM, I understand through the 'vine that there will be other ramifacations as well. Coach Coker (and prior to him, Butch Davis) have worked hard to improve UM football. (Note - all other UM programs have excellent reputations.)

Earlier this year, coach Coker suspended two offensive players (starting running back and starting wide receiver) for the first game against FSU for breaking team rules. He said it was tough, but it was the right thing to do. Of course, this probably helped them lose the game, but I admire him for this.

Coach Coker is a good guy (and professing Christian - he attends a local Baptist church BTW). Due to his record since becoming head coach five years ago (he was an assistant under Davis), he will probably lose his job at the end of the year. Not a bad record, with five bowl appearances in five years.

Regarding the fight, I personally don't blame the UM players on the field for coming to the aid of their placekicker and holder. They were being slammed to ground, hit and kicked in the ribs, neck and head. This is after at least three personal fouls for late hits in the 1st half by FIU.

The big problem was not keeping the players on the sidelines. The most serious offense by any UM player (from what I've read and seen, and from those actually at the game) was the one who came in off the sidelines and started swinging his helmet. He's the one who has been suspended indefinitely.

I'm sure more will come out over the next few days.
I'd suggest that Howard S. (Can't spell that last name twice in the same day) would not have put up with this, either, from what I've seen of him.

Ed
 

ccrobinson

Active Member
What I don't understand is why did the network continue filming the entire fight, and not go to commercial?

I'm probably wrong about this, but was ESPN the network that continued showing the fight instead of going to commercial? While I don't think that ESPN in and of itself is the reason for the decline and fall of American sports, they don't help.
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
ccrobinson said:
I'm probably wrong about this, but was ESPN the network that continued showing the fight instead of going to commercial? While I don't think that ESPN in and of itself is the reason for the decline and fall of American sports, they don't help.

No, ESPN was not the network. The game was not covered nationally - or even regionally, but was on the local cable channel sports station.
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Regarding returning all the money ....

There was no money made out of this game.
*** There was no TV money (only covered by the local cable channel).
*** Attendance at gate was not a sell out - moderate at best
*** UM does not have its own stadium on campus
*** Instead, it plays at the Orange Bowl, which they rent from the city
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If anything, this points to the assumption that Coach Coker does not have control of the team. May or may not be true -- but the feeling here is that he doesn't.

However, coach Coker will probably be fired at the end of the season due to the wins/losses not this situation. It just adds fuel to the growing fire. He will probably have to win out the season (not likely) in order to keep his job.
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
FIU down the right road?

EdSutton said:
It looks like FIU has at least turned down the right road.
UM, so far has touched the brakes, and put on the turn signal.

I think the reason why FIU has taken such a hard stance is the fact that their players were the ones that started the brawl. None of the cheap shots/late hits/personal fouls in the first half were against Miami and the UM placekicker & holder didn't jump the guys twice their size. Again, I have no problem with the guys on the field protecting their own. The big problem occurred when the players left the sidelines.
 

rbell

Active Member
I'm glad to hear that Coker is a Christian. I'm sorry he inherited this mess, and that it will probably cost him a job.

Several Miami players lamented that they didn't do more regarding the fight that took place after the LSU-Miami game last year (Miami lost 40-3). I'm wondering if that was why several left the bench to join the brawl.

Most of my venom has been focused toward UM because of their long history of problematic people and run-ins with the law, and their incredible lack of sportsmanship over the years (especially apparent under Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, and still today). Their largely unrepentant attitudes expressed after the game didn't hurt. Either Don Strock kept his players quiet better, or (more likely) the media didn't run to them (FIU) to get an account of the events.
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
UM Coach

rbell said:
I'm glad to hear that Coker is a Christian. I'm sorry he inherited this mess, and that it will probably cost him a job.

Several Miami players lamented that they didn't do more regarding the fight that took place after the LSU-Miami game last year (Miami lost 40-3). I'm wondering if that was why several left the bench to join the brawl.

Most of my venom has been focused toward UM because of their long history of problematic people and run-ins with the law, and their incredible lack of sportsmanship over the years (especially apparent under Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, and still today). Their largely unrepentant attitudes expressed after the game didn't hurt. Either Don Strock kept his players quiet better, or (more likely) the media didn't run to them (FIU) to get an account of the events.


Actually, Coker inherited an excellent team & program from Butch Davis who left to go to the NFL. Butch had already started turning things around from the mess of Erickson. [To be fair, Coker was part of this process as he was an assistant coach under Davis.] Coker won the national championship his first year and came within a pass interference call on a second one.

He will probably be let go at the end of the year (and still collect $2M plus), but it will be due to the trending of the wins/losses over the past six years. While this record would be acceptable (even enviable) at other universities, this will be get him fired at UM.

Year 1 - undefeated & wins national championship
Year 2 - one loss (in bowl game for the national championship)
Year 3 - two losses (wins BCS bowl at end of year)
Year 4 - three losses (wins non-BCS bowl)
Year 5 - three losses (loses non-BCS bowl)
Year 6 - already has two losses halfway thru season
 

TomVols

New Member
FriendofSpurgeon said:
Regarding returning all the money ....

There was no money made out of this game.
*** There was no TV money (only covered by the local cable channel).
*** Attendance at gate was not a sell out - moderate at best
*** UM does not have its own stadium on campus
*** Instead, it plays at the Orange Bowl, which they rent from the city
I find it hard to believe UM doesn't make money from its games. CSS is a regional network. I can watch the game here in Tennessee. If UM is not making money on its games, I'll eat my hat :)
I'd suggest that Howard S. (Can't spell that last name twice in the same day) would not have put up with this, either, from what I've seen of him.
Schnellenberger (probably misspelled that) was just as rogue at UM. He built a cocky program at Louisville (where I knew him and many of his players). From what I've seen of him, I wouldn't write him off as being so tough on this kind of thing.
 

TomVols

New Member
The CSS feed (tape delayed) edited out the comments by the Miami announcer that got him canned. What did he say?
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Correction ESPN

FriendofSpurgeon said:
No, ESPN was not the network. The game was not covered nationally - or even regionally, but was on the local cable channel sports station.

I found out today that the game was carried on ESPN Pay Per View. It was on cable sports channel (CSS) for tape delay.
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Follow Up

TomVols said:
The CSS feed (tape delayed) edited out the comments by the Miami announcer that got him canned. What did he say?

I think there are some links on this post regarding his comments. If not, you can check out the Miami Herald on line -- www.herald.com.

Regarding the money, of course I can't say for sure that they made $0 on this game. However, there was no TV money (except for ESPN PPV whatever that gets you), it was not a sell out, and UM rents the stadium they play in. And if there was a positive balance, UM had to split it with FIU. Out of all their games, this one probably generated the least amount of revenue.
 

EdSutton

New Member
TomVols said:
I find it hard to believe UM doesn't make money from its games. CSS is a regional network. I can watch the game here in Tennessee. If UM is not making money on its games, I'll eat my hat :) Schnellenberger (probably misspelled that) was just as rogue at UM. He built a cocky program at Louisville (where I knew him and many of his players). From what I've seen of him, I wouldn't write him off as being so tough on this kind of thing.
I did not say that Coach S. was not a bit 'cocky'. He was, both at UM and UL. Can't comment much beyond that. But there is a difference, between being 'cocky' and being a 'rogue'. I'd offer that there are certain schools, teams, coaches, etc. everywhere that are somewhat cocky. I'd suggest that the Duke Basketball program overall is a bit 'cocky'. And I don't like Duke. But I would not generally classify the players as roguish, save for maybe one individual who played there once, who deliberately stepped on one Aminu Timberlake when he was down on the floor. And as a Kentuckian, I'd say that I've not seen too many coaches with a bigger ego or much more 'cocky' than Rick Pitino in basketball, or Hal Mumme in football. Difference was, one could back it up, one couldn't. And Coach S. was able to back it up at UL in football, taking a program headed for Div. IA, toward the higher echelons of Div. I. Don't know about the 'cockiness' bit, but overall, at your beloved UT, Bruce Pearl and Phil Fullmer seem to be winning a couple of games every now and then, and Pat Summit has set the bar for women's BB, like Uncle Adolph, Dean Smith, and Johnny Wooden did for men's BB. Ego or no.

Ed
 

FriendofSpurgeon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
bobbyd said:
Lamar Thomas got what he deserved...and shows the overall mindset of Miami football.

Yes, Lamar got what he deserved - he should have been fired for those ridiculous comments. I hardly think he represents the U football program of today.
 

rbell

Active Member
So...Miami is not going to kick anyone off the team...that figures.

Miami U. President Donna Shalala responded to questions by saying, "No, I didn't watch the footage. I was there...I saw it all...and I didn't want to get any madder. I didn't need to see it again." (Shalala's comments, played on ESPN radio today)

Now that's leadership, folks. Avoid having the facts. Trust your memory. And above all costs, don't watch something that might offend your sensibilities.

The only Miami player to get a significant suspension was the helmet-slinging Reddick. Merriweather, the knee-stomper, and some of the other thugs get off with the proverbial wrist slap.

You guys reckon next year's Miami team will be sponsored by Glock? Maybe Ludacris or Fiddy Cent could rewrite their fight song. Maybe the entire football team can major in criminal justice. They'll need it.

FIU got it right. Toss 'em. Good for you, Don Strock and FIU admins. Miami's administration showed an appalling lack of values and common sense--common decency, for that matter.
 
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