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The Monergist View of the Human Will
- Thread starter Reformed
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What are you gonna tell them,,, God chose you, to one to another, God didn't choose you , sorryIt’s called the great commission for a reason.
that is election, right
Who would know that information?
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This thread will be closed sometime after 12 AM Pacific.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I didn't "become a Calvinist" at salvation. No one else does either.
Not having regeneration does not mean God Holy Spirit is not working to influence a person's life, or their human will.
I think I understand your argument. You are saying that a person must be in a receptive frame of mind to listen to and consider the gospel prior to God Holy Spirit regenerating that person.
You equate that with a works based salvation. I disagree.
As I stated above, God Holy Spirit can and does influence people prior to regeneration.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The message is the same for everyone. Jesus died for our sins, according to the scriptures. He was buried, and was resurrected on the 3rd day, according to the scripture. He was seen by more than 500 people after His resurrection.
Salvation from the wrath of God, and freedom from sin comes by faith in Jesus Christ.
I leave all the chosing of the elect to God.
I tell them that the Christ died, was buried and three days later rose from the tomb according to the scriptures. That if they place their faith in Him, believe in their heart that God raised Him from the dead, they shall be saved.
I don't add any unnecessary fluff to the gospel, such as God loves you, or just ask God to come into your heart. The gospel is sufficient. I just proclaim it.
We posted almost the exact same thing at almost the exact same time. God predestined it that way.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Before the foundation of the world, no doubt.We posted almost the exact same thing at almost the exact same time. God predestined it that way.
I cannot see who you are conversing with, but I can pretty much guess what it is about.
This goes back to the very first post in this thread. The sinner is absolutely and unequivocally dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1; Col. 2:13). Paul's use of the word νεκρος (nekros) to describe "dead" is the same word for a corpse. The meaning is very clear. The sinner is spiritually dead. With death comes inability (Rom. 8:7). The spiritually dead sinner cannot do anything in relation to God. If you walk into a funeral home and look at a body in a coffin, it is unable to do anything. Why? Because it is no longer alive. It is the same thing with the spiritually dead sinner. While the sinner is alive physically, he is dead spiritually. Synergists love to do their kabuki dance around this fact, but it is all a charade. The sinner cannot prepare themselves to the hear the Gospel. Paul writes:
Ephesians 2:4-5 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ...
Even when we were dead in our transgressions... Nowhere in that passage does it say the sinner prepared himself to hear the Gospel.
How does one of God's elect hear and understand the Gospel? The Holy Spirit illumines and regenerates in order for understanding to take place. He must do that because the dead sinner is incapable of hearing or believing.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Not to nit pick, but you said Holy Spirit must regenerate because "the dead sinner is incapable of hearing or believing". This is where some are getting hung up, I think.
I think I know what you mean. I think you are saying they are incapable of hearing in a way that they can fully understand the gospel and therefore believe without regeneration.
Obviously people are able to hear the gospel without regeneration and that will not result in salvation. I know I heard the gospel many times over many years before God Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth.
The hearing I am talking about is spiritual hearing. The natural man (the sinner) cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God:
1 Corinthians 2:14 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
If the natural man cannot understand them, how can He ever understand the Gospel? This is where illumination and regeneration come in, which is the work of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes the sinner able to hear, understand, and believe.
"You are saying that a person must be in a receptive frame of mind to listen to and consider the gospel prior to God Holy Spirit regenerating that person."
No.
Whether they agree or disagree with the gospel is not nor if they are saintly or ready to recieve is not on the chopping block at all.
What is the focus is THEIR UNREGENERATED CHOICE to even HEAR the gospel.
Let me give you an example.
We walk up to 2 atheists.
Can I tell you the gospel of Jesus Christ?
#1 Refuses to hear anything you have to say.
#2 Agrees to hear what you have to say.
We are guaranteed #1 will not be regenerated. We have no guarantee of #2 being regenerated.
BUT #2 definitely has possibility of being regenerated.
Also everyone who has been regenerated 100% all of them made the FORTUNATE UNRGENERATED CHOICE to hear the gospel.
YOU, before you were regenerated, before having faith, made a choice to HEAR the gospel.
"No sooner is the soul quickened, than it at once discovers its lost estate, is horrified thereat, looks for a refuge, and believing Christ to be a suitable one, flies to him and reposes in him."
-C.H. Spurgeon
"Faith in the living God and his Son Jesus Christ is always the result of the new birth, and can never exist except in the regenerate. Whoever has faith is a saved man."
C.H. Spurgeon
It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19), and cannot come to God on his own (John 6:44), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12), is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6), is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20; John 8:34), cannot receive spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), is dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1), is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3), and is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15).
Where you forced against your will to hear the gospel? Did someone tie you a chair or hold a gun to your head?
Regeneration happens ONCE. And that is AFTER hearing the gospel.
"Instead, Irresistible Grace is the gracious act of God where, at the time of salvation, God regenerates a person which then means that the person will willingly, of his own free will receive and trust in Christ. It means that the person cannot successfully resist the act of God’s regeneration. It is not a violation of their will since the person is changed and because of it, the person willingly trusts in Christ."
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The Archangel
Well-Known Member
False. Romans 10 says explicitly otherwise. "How will they hear without a preacher?" The implied answer is "they won't."
The Archangel
Ya got it
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