The mountains of freewill and election arguing about whose eternal life valley it is

Don't be stupid Here now, You can twist this scripture any way you want to, but if you attempt to say that the hearing is not of the word of God, regardless of the medium in which the word is "heard", you are ABSOLUTELY wrong.

The Gideon's organization can provide you with masses of testimonies from people who picked up a Gideon bible in a motel or hotel room, were convicted by reading it, and gave their lives over completely to God in FAITH. The word of God itself when sent forth, does not return void! </font>[/QUOTE]Actually this was meant for ILL.

But anyway first things first: Do not call me stupid. We've gone over that before: Remember, I said I could make nasty comments also, but, the Holy Spirit which has made me a new creature usually keeps me under control when it comes to being mean-spirited. Okay, so much for that.

I have not twisted anything: the scripture says that ".... AND hearing BY the word of God.
Meaning hearing comes from: God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. That is why I asked you before: Who gave us the word of God? Which you answered with: Who do you think? So okay, I'll answer for you. GOD gives us " the word of God".
My point in asking you that was: The word of God is given to you BY God, so also is the hearing, meaning Spiritual understanding. This scripture is saying that: Faith comes from God.

Sincerely,
Here Now

 

Wes says:
The Gideon's organization can provide you with masses of testimonies from people who picked up a Gideon bible in a motel or hotel room, were convicted by reading it, and gave their lives over completely to God in FAITH. The word of God itself when sent forth, does not return void!


Wes,
This does not prove your point.

The Holy Spirit obviously gave them Spiritual understanding.

So what is your point?

 

NOT SBVIOUS, here now.

That is what you want to believe happened, but you were not there in the room with those who give their testamonies. You deny the power of God's word to effect what man believes. For many of those testamonies the person clearly says they had never even picked up a bible before, but after reading some of it in accordance with the intro list in the front of the bible, they became intrigued and "Needed to know more". A good book will do that to you with or without the Holy Spirit.

 

Do you have a reading impairment?
I said

You say I said

"Don't be stupid" does not mean the same thing as "you are stupid"

 

Wes,
Please read my comment I made at 9:12 PM and comment.

 

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Hearing is what we do; God's word is the source of the heard information.

 

You say I said

"Don't be stupid" does not mean the same thing as "you are stupid" </font>[/QUOTE]Wes,
There you go again, NO I am not reading impaired.

NOW, If you say "don't BE stupid", YES, you ARE calling me stupid.

 

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Wes,
You just don't get it.
The verse DOES NOT say:
Faith cometh by hearing the word of God.


Let me break it down for you:
Faith cometh by hearing = We receive faith by hearing


AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD. = We receive hearing (understanding) by the word of God.


The word of God(the Bible) is God's way of letting us know Him.

BUT, not everyone who reads the word of God knows Him.


WHY? Because not everyone who reads the word of God understands(HEARS) it.


WHY? Because understanding comes from GOD.


Hearing = understanding
How do we receive it? From God through His word.

 

You demand that I don't call you stupid then post this stuff? Are you a blond?

The Gospel message is made simple to confound the wise. The Gospel message is contained in the Word of God, and you don't have to be an einstein to understand it...in truth an einstein probably would not understand it, where the common man would.

Jesus spoke in parables, the simple understood those parables, and for the most part the wise didn't have the foggiest.

Good Ol' Nicodemus, a prominant teacher in the land, was chastised by Jesus for not understanding the "natural things". Is it any wonder he did not understand the spiritual things?

Many thousands followed Jesus and listened to him, and they understood what he was saying. Look at all the things said of what Jesus was saying. Wonderful Counsellor, Master, Good teacher, etc.

With that said, here now, Do you truly expect us to accept your "Blond interpretation" of so simple a scripture?

Think things through here now.

 

Alright Wes, I have had enough. You can either tone it down, or take a vacation. You will not call people's names or refer to their intelligence in a derogatory way. You have been pushing the envelope and I have given you some slack because you differ so greatly from myself. I did not want to appear to be picking on you for your doctrine and have bent over backwards to give you room. But references to people's age, calling them religious charlatans, calling the stupid (or insinuating such), calling them blonde, etc, are unacceptable. Consider this an official warning. Next time will lead to a 10-day suspension as the rules of the board dictate.

Please do not bring such a suspension on yourself.

Larry

To all, these warning apply. Do not call names, refers to people's age, intelligence, etc. Discuss matters like gentlemen, or ladies as the case may be.

 

Hi Herenow;

Understanding is not hearing and your wrong we can understand anything we read especially the gospel. Not to mention the Bible doesn't say that man cannot hear. It says that the ears of the Jews are dull of hearing. But this is befcause of there rejection.

Understanding came from God we are born with the knowledge of good and evil and understanding.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Hi Tcassidy;

Actually your wrong it is defined as imaginations. Why is it that Calvinist feel they can convince anyone of there doctrine by redefining the words in the Bible in order to make it appear more favorable to there doctrines. I realize that you see yourself as more biblically advance than those who translated the scriptures. Hebrew like all ancient Languages more that 2000 years ago didn't have all the meanings that you pick and choose from today. They generally had one meaning, the root meaning. Do your self a favor accept God's word as we have it today and stop trying to change it. I'm not impressed with your approach to the Bible at all. You lack the ability to let God's word show you the way. Rather you try showing it.

Not true. We can if we have enough faith. We can build our faith. Only the faithless denies that.

Well stop patting your self on the back pal because I have never denied that it is God's word accomplishing what God designed it for. What I deny is that in order to understand the gospel we have to be regenerated first. We are not and you haven't proved it yet. Just claim it falsely.

Is this verse suppose to be saying I can't know the mind of God. If so your seeing what isn't there.

Wow you certainly see yourself as something special don't you. I don't see you that way I see you as a someone who can't take the meat of the word. Just to hard on a infants stomach.

Your whole doctrine contradicts scripture. I agree with Jn.6:44 and Jn 12:32 so who's left. Your the one denying that Christ said;
Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me .

Whose denying I admit it. What I deny is that we are made to chose Christ against our will. You still haven't shown one person who was saved against his will.

No I don't deny it. I deny that he only elects some of us. I deny your idea of it, in fact you don't much about it at all.

You complement me accusing me of the same thing they accused my Lord of. Well he did say if they hated me they'll hate you.

You notice that your entire post is nothing more than accusations and attacks against me personally. Then you wonder why I react negatively.

Take a good look at that "IF" in the scripture you presented
You poor poor man what pain you must be suffering with. An inability to understand the scriptures.

Don't let your jealousy run away with you. I love my neighbors and my brothers and sisters. This also includes my enemies. How ever I haven't seen anything from you but the denial of the truth of the scriptures. And of course your false accusations.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

ILL says:

Hi Here now:

quote from here now:
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not everyone who reads the word of God understands(HEARS) it.

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ILL says in resposnse:
Understanding is not hearing and your wrong we can understand anything we read especially the gospel. Not to mention the Bible doesn't say that man cannot hear. It says that the ears of the Jews are dull of hearing. But this is befcause of there rejection.

HN:
No you are the one that is wrong. Man is incapable of spiritually understanding the Bible. Man can only understand the spiritual aspects of the Bible through the Holy Spirit. Without the Holy Spirit the Bible is basically a history book. With the Holy Spirit the Bible comes alive, it is read with a different outlook, a Spiritual one.
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quote from here now:
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Because understanding comes from GOD.
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ILL says:
Understanding came from God we are born with the knowledge of good and evil and understanding.


HN says:
I'm speaking of the spiritual understanding of the Bible.
All men are not born with this.

When a man is born again with the Holy Spirit then he can receive the Spiritual understanding.

Sincerely,
Here NOw

 

To all,
I humbly apologize for being so direct, lacking the finesse and finish that many of you possess.

I also apologize for inferring less than the normal human intelligence of some posters.

It seems that many of you treat those who don't agree with you likewise, with varying degrees of innuendo, but since I am the chiefest and most direct of sinners, I offer to all my apology and seek your forgiveness.

 

Nobody has made such a claim. Why do you just make this stuff up? </font>[/QUOTE]That is what Regeneration before faith means!

One who is not willing is made willing by regeneration!

 

Didn't you answer your own objection when you say they "are made willing"??

 

Hi

Then you ought to be able to prove that with scripture.

Just because you say it doen't make it so. Prove it with scripture or it's not scriptural.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

The point is that God does not force humans to come to him.

There is no such thing as regeneration before believing, else it be "...that we are made to chose Christ against our will". There is hearing there is deciding, but there is no forcing!(prior regeneration)

Not even Saul was "forced" (regenerated) to accept Jesus against his will, he was already a religious zealot! Trained by the best religious leaders of the day, carrying a letter from the high priest himself to Damascus authorizing him to search out the Christian rebellion and crush it! He was on horseback which indicated that he was not just a lowly pew-sitting church member, but someone with authority and power! He was a "servant of God"!

Jesus just redirected him.

 

Hi tcassidy;

Actually what we have here is you arguing with you bible translators. Who no doubt know a lot more than you do. Typical Calvinist response when it don't match your doctrine redefine it.

You're loosing position and control of your self a bit here accusing me of being a Ruckmanite You know I had a feeling you didn't know what you're talking about. Guess what I'm right.

That's strange you keep on making your false claims with very little proof of what you say.

You really don't have control do you.

Oh I see you applied this to your self. Funny how that works sometimes. Step back and take a good look at all the trash you accused me of. I can be nice to those who are nice in return. You started out the accusing

You just make erroneous statements never really grasping the scriptures at all.

Excuse me you denied that all men are drawn. I agree no one can come to Him with out the drawing. Although I believe all men are drawn. As far as believing in the fundamentals that doesn't mean I'm a Calvinist that's for sure.

If you believe regeneration has to happen before man can understand the scriptures then you believe you are regenerated and made to accept Christ. Because you also believe that man is persevered by God and not Him self. As far as make stuff up. I don't assume something is true as you obviously do. You keep ranting on and you haven't spent one moment with scripture to prove what you are claiming. Simply I won't take your word for it I place my trust in Christ alone Not in Calvinist.

You finally said something that's true of me.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
That word Getiles are all the rest of humanity.

You also know that He draws all men, all you have to do now is believe it.

Well this is what you said and so cleverly tried to cover up.

And they did accuse my Lord of being a wine bibber,
Mat 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Your false accusations portrays your true feelings.

This isn't true at all You first attacked Wes and I stood up for him.
That's really about it just careless attacks.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike