The mystery of the church age

[Yeshua1]

Saying all saints will be raptured and will go to Heaven doesn't answer the question. How does God determine who is a saint? My belief is they will be identified at the final Judgment. What's yours?

ALL who have been saved and found in Christ! Can KNOW right now that one is part of the group!

 

[MB]

ALL who have been saved and found in Christ! Can KNOW right now that one is part of the group!

They will be known by there faith.
MB

 

[MB]

Saying all saints will be raptured and will go to Heaven doesn't answer the question. How does God determine who is a saint? My belief is they will be identified at the final Judgment. What's yours?

He already knows them after all He saved them.
MB

 

[AustinC]

In this age, Jesus makes saints of all who come to Him in prayer of genuine repentance & belief. God has left this to Him. And in the Old testament times, God counted those who OBEYED Him & genuinely worshipped Him as saints, also counting as saints those who'd never heard of Him but sought to treat his fellow people with respect & honesty, following such basic things as not murdering, stealing, etc.

So everyone is saved by keeping the law?

 

[robycop3]

So everyone is saved by keeping the law?

Not what I said.

 

[AustinC]

Not what I said.

Go back and read what you said. You have legal requirements for one to be saved. That is salvation by following the law.

 

[robycop3]

Go back and read what you said. You have legal requirements for one to be saved. That is salvation by following the law.

Horse Feathers.

 

[AustinC]

Horse Feathers.

Horse feathers won't save you either.

We are saved by God's grace alone. There are no "you must" requirements for salvation. If there were, then your salvation would be contingent upon what YOU must do. That would be salvation by works.

God must choose to save us according to His gracious favor. Once saved, we will express belief, faith and good works as an effect of God's saving work in our lives.

 

[robycop3]

Horse feathers won't save you either.

We are saved by God's grace alone. There are no "you must" requirements for salvation. If there were, then your salvation would be contingent upon what YOU must do. That would be salvation by works.

God must choose to save us according to His gracious favor. Once saved, we will express belief, faith and good works as an effect of God's saving work in our lives.

You're 'WAY off ! No one can just sit there & do nothing, & be saved. Remember, Jesus said He knocks at the door. He doesn't kick it in. One must "GET UP & ANSWER THE DOOR!"

Your prob seemstabee what constitutes "works". Believing in Jesus, repenting of one's sins, & PRAYING to Him are not "works".

 

[AustinC]

You're 'WAY off ! No one can just sit there & do nothing, & be saved. Remember, Jesus said He knocks at the door. He doesn't kick it in. One must "GET UP & ANSWER THE DOOR!"

Your prob seemstabee what constitutes "works". Believing in Jesus, repenting of one's sins, & PRAYING to Him are not "works".

You reveal that you believe in salvation by works.
First, Revelation 3:20 has nothing to do with salvation. You misuse scripture.

You seem to think human response to God's grace equals salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible says God saves by grace. It then clarifies and says God saves by grace, through faith, which is not of yourself, but is the gift of God so that no one can boast.

Belief, repentance and prayer are effects of God's gracious saving work, they are not the cause of God's gracious saving work. You emphasize human effort and works to be saved. That is salvation by fulfilling the law. You do not understand grace.

 

[Yeshua1]

You're 'WAY off ! No one can just sit there & do nothing, & be saved. Remember, Jesus said He knocks at the door. He doesn't kick it in. One must "GET UP & ANSWER THE DOOR!"

Your prob seemstabee what constitutes "works". Believing in Jesus, repenting of one's sins, & PRAYING to Him are not "works".

ALL of those "acts" are produced in and thru us due to the working of the Holy Spirit!

 

[Yeshua1]

You reveal that you believe in salvation by works.
First, Revelation 3:20 has nothing to do with salvation. You misuse scripture.

You seem to think human response to God's grace equals salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible says God saves by grace. It then clarifies and says God saves by grace, through faith, which is not of yourself, but is the gift of God so that no one can boast.

Belief, repentance and prayer are effects of God's gracious saving work, they are not the cause of God's gracious saving work. You emphasize human effort and works to be saved. That is salvation by fulfilling the law. You do not understand grace.

All of those "things" are due to the working of the Holy Spirit in and thru us!

 

[canadyjd]

You reveal that you believe in salvation by works.
First, Revelation 3:20 has nothing to do with salvation. You misuse scripture.

You seem to think human response to God's grace equals salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible says God saves by grace. It then clarifies and says God saves by grace, through faith, which is not of yourself, but is the gift of God so that no one can boast.

Belief, repentance and prayer are effects of God's gracious saving work, they are not the cause of God's gracious saving work. You emphasize human effort and works to be saved. That is salvation by fulfilling the law. You do not understand grace.

I’m trying to understand your position. I agree with you that salvation is a work of God’s grace. I also agree that faith in Jesus is our response to God’s intervention in our lives through God Holy Spirit.

Where I disagree, I think, is when is salvation appropriated in time? You seem to think salvation occurs the moment Holy Spirit intervenes in our lives with regeneration.

Where is the gospel in this belief? Are you saying people are saved without the gospel? That cannot be true given Paul’s teachings in I Cor that God was well pleased though the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. The gospel, and our response to it, is an essential part of our salvation experience.

Please explain what role the gospel plays in salvation?

peace to you

 

[robycop3]

You reveal that you believe in salvation by works.
First, Revelation 3:20 has nothing to do with salvation. You misuse scripture.

Tes, Rev. 3:20 DOES! You're guessing wrong again.

You seem to think human response to God's grace equals salvation. That is not what the Bible teaches. The Bible says God saves by grace. It then clarifies and says God saves by grace, through faith, which is not of yourself, but is the gift of God so that no one can boast.

No, it says "not of works, lest any man should boast".

Read James 2:14-26, especially V. 24-
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Belief, repentance and prayer are effects of God's gracious saving work, they are not the cause of God's gracious saving work. You emphasize human effort and works to be saved. That is salvation by fulfilling the law. You do not understand grace.

And you call your self a BAPTIST while having goofy ideas like THAT ????????????????

WE must come to JESUS; He doesn't come to us, with but few exceptions, such as Paul. And even Paul had to ASK FOR SALVATION.

I hope YOU have done so, & that you dump the cultic garbage ASAP !

 

[AustinC]

I’m trying to understand your position. I agree with you that salvation is a work of God’s grace. I also agree that faith in Jesus is our response to God’s intervention in our lives through God Holy Spirit.

Where I disagree, I think, is when is salvation appropriated in time? You seem to think salvation occurs the moment Holy Spirit intervenes in our lives with regeneration.

Where is the gospel in this belief? Are you saying people are saved without the gospel? That cannot be true given Paul’s teachings in I Cor that God was well pleased though the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. The gospel, and our response to it, is an essential part of our salvation experience.

Please explain what role the gospel plays in salvation?

peace to you

God uses the preaching of the gospel to quicken a person. It is very similar to Jesus calling Lazarus from the dead. Jesus proclaimed "Lazarus, come forth" and the response was Lazarus walking out of the tomb.
Jesus commissions his children to go and preach reconciliation with our King, Jesus Christ. Those who are not quickened think reconciliation is foolishness. They believe they rule their own personal kingdom. But, when the Holy Spirit quickens (calls their name to come forth) that person is made alive and walks forth into glorious day.

I hope this clarifies your question.

 

[AustinC]

Tes, Rev. 3:20 DOES! You're guessing wrong again.


No, it says "not of works, lest any man should boast".

Read James 2:14-26, especially V. 24-
You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


And you call your self a BAPTIST while having goofy ideas like THAT ????????????????

WE must come to JESUS; He doesn't come to us, with but few exceptions, such as Paul. And even Paul had to ASK FOR SALVATION.

I hope YOU have done so, & that you dump the cultic garbage ASAP !

Do you realize you are teaching the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church? You are teaching that a person is justified by faith plus works. It is the declaration of the Roman Catholic Church at the Synod of Trent, which solidified Rome as an apostate church. What you teach is not Baptist doctrine at all.

As for Revelation 3:20, Jesus is addressing the church (those who are saved) and telling them that he is coming to knock on their door. Jesus is not speaking to pagans in that letter. Stop misusing the word of God.

In every circumstance, God comes to the person who is dead in his trespasses and sins. God chooses, by grace, to make them alive and save them. What we see with Paul's conversion is a resemblance of all conversions. God must knock us off our prideful pedestal and remove the blindness of our corrupt heart.

I stand on God's justification by faith alone.

Sola Gratia
Sola Fide

I can do no other.

 

[robycop3]

Do you realize you are teaching the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church? You are teaching that a person is justified by faith plus works. It is the declaration of the Roman Catholic Church at the Synod of Trent, which solidified Rome as an apostate church. What you teach is not Baptist doctrine at all.

I showed you otherwise FROM SCRIPTURE. Baptists BELIEVE SCRIPTURE over anything else.

As for Revelation 3:20, Jesus is addressing the church (those who are saved) and telling them that he is coming to knock on their door. Jesus is not speaking to pagans in that letter. Stop misusing the word of God.

No, He was rebuking that church; apparently they had some pseudo-Christians in it. You're simply wrong.

In every circumstance, God comes to the person who is dead in his trespasses and sins. God chooses, by grace, to make them alive and save them. What we see with Paul's conversion is a resemblance of all conversions. God must knock us off our prideful pedestal and remove the blindness of our corrupt heart.

I stand on God's justification by faith alone.

Sola Gratia
Sola Fide

I can do no other.

So, you simply sat there mostly asleep watching a test pattern & God suddenly came to you without your asking? SUUURE!

Paul THOUGHT he was doing God's work til Jesus came upon him & made him "an offer he couldn't refuse". And Paul still had to ACCEPT Jesus & that offer.

 

[AustinC]

I showed you otherwise FROM SCRIPTURE. Baptists BELIEVE SCRIPTURE over anything else.


No, He was rebuking that church; apparently they had some pseudo-Christians in it. You're simply wrong.


So, you simply sat there mostly asleep watching a test pattern & God suddenly came to you without your asking? SUUURE!

Paul THOUGHT he was doing God's work til Jesus came upon him & made him "an offer he couldn't refuse". And Paul still had to ACCEPT Jesus & that offer.

You ignore that you have the doctrine of Rome as issued at the Council of Trent. You are not speaking as a Baptist. You preach justification by faith plus justification by works.

I was antagonistic toward God and had no desire to follow God. God broke my heart, destroyed my pride and left me bare. He quickened me and saved me. I responded to God's grace.

God is the cause. My response is the effect.

Yet, you preach that you are the cause and God's response is the effect.

 

[robycop3]

You ignore that you have the doctrine of Rome as issued at the Council of Trent. You are not speaking as a Baptist. You preach justification by faith plus justification by works.

I was antagonistic toward God and had no desire to follow God. God broke my heart, destroyed my pride and left me bare. He quickened me and saved me. I responded to God's grace.

God is the cause. My response is the effect.

Yet, you preach that you are the cause and God's response is the effect.

Baloney. Scripture plainly tells what to do to be saved, and it DOES require action on out parts.

 

[MB]

You ignore that you have the doctrine of Rome as issued at the Council of Trent. You are not speaking as a Baptist. You preach justification by faith plus justification by works.

I was antagonistic toward God and had no desire to follow God. God broke my heart, destroyed my pride and left me bare. He quickened me and saved me. I responded to God's grace.

God is the cause. My response is the effect.

Yet, you preach that you are the cause and God's response is the effect.

You ignore like the JW's you rewrite what scripture actually says to suit your self even creating your own false doctrine.
MB