The Myth of "faith being credited for Righteousness"

[Van]

Lets play tha old game one more time.
The OT saints who gained approval by faith were conducted to "Abraham's bosom" when they physically died. Not to the kingdom of heaven. That is because they had not yet been made perfect. The spirits in heaven have been made perfect.
Those set apart in Christ, those who are sanctified, are those made perfect, Hebrews 10:14

The nameless doctrine has no support for total spiritual inability, unconditional election, Christ dying only for the elect, and irresistible grace. Thus we get verses which demonstrate "A" and then the claim "B" has been demonstrated.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Just another myth, again without biblical support. Try supporting your assertions from scripture. Lots of verses address accepting or receiving the gospel, yet not one of them says anything about being given a new heart first. Paul, OTOH, taught that men of flesh could understand spiritual milk. 1 Cor. 3:1-3.

You should consider this, why does one side of the divide make assertions without biblical support, and the other side supports every contention directly from scripture?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Lets play tha old game one more time.
The OT saints who gained approval by faith were conducted to "Abraham's bosom" when they physically died. Not to the kingdom of heaven. That is because they had not yet been made perfect. The spirits in heaven have been made perfect.
Those set apart in Christ, those who are sanctified, are those made perfect, Hebrews 10:14

The nameless doctrine has no support for total spiritual inability, unconditional election, Christ dying only for the elect, and irresistible grace. Thus we get verses which demonstrate "A" and then the claim "B" has been demonstrated.

 

[Van]

More incredulity, more smoke, more running from the topic.
Is it a myth God credits our faith as righteousness? No, it is inspired truth.
And God would not need to credit as righteousness faith He instilled.

 

[The Biblicist]

And God would not need to credit as righteousness faith He instilled.

Faith is created by God in connection with the revelation of the gospel within the heart of the elect, which is the "substance" as well as the "hope" of justifying faith - Mt. 16:16-17; 2 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:15-16.

A. 2 Cor. 4:6 clearly and explicitly gives the creation of literal light by the effectual spoken word of God in Genesis 1:3 to be analgous with the creation of the metaphorical light of knowledge of God in the person of Christ in the heart by the effectual empowering of the gospel by God.

1. The Clear reference to Genesis 1:3 is indisputable - " For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,"

2. That it is provided as an analogous manner is indisputable - "hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

3. In Genesis 1:3 light was created by God speaking it into existence - this is indisputable.

4. In 2 Cor. 4:6 the direct analogy is God creating the metaphorical light of knowledge by speaking it into existence IN THE HEART (as no human can work in the heart).

5. The Word empowered by God in the heart to reveal this light of knowledge is the gospel and it is not the work of any human preacher as Paul immediately denies this work in the heart is of human power but is the power of God - 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

6. The power he is speaking of is the power that creates the light of knowledge within the human heart in the previous verse.


B. Matthew 16:16-17 and Gal. 1:15-16 clearly demands that the profession of faith in Christ is not something originating with Peter or Paul or any human but has its sole origin by revelation from God just as Paul teaches in 2 Cor. 4:6:

Mt. 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


Gal. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ........
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me,

1. In both cases it is the Son that is revealed by the Father to Peter and Paul ("my father....reveal HIS Son in me")

2. In both cases it is by REVELATION ("revealed it unto thee....my Father.......by the revelation....reveal his son in me")

3. In both cases it does not have its origin with other humans/preachers ("for flesh and blood hath not revealed it..........not after man. ..neither received of man, neither was I taught it.")

CONCLUSION: This revelation is in the heart ("in the heart....in me") it is analgous to divine fiat as a creative work of God, as no man can work in the heart but God. It is the substance of the true profession of faith as clearly demanded by Jesus with regard to Peter's own profession. Thus saving faith is the CREATIVE WORK OF GOD just as Jesus says in John 6:29 and proves in John 6:37-39 and Jn. 6:44).

Now, Van cannot provide any kind of rational response to the detailed evidence I have provided. Therefore, he will resort to his only weapons - ridicule! Why, because his view is false and he cannot provide any expositional based response - his own alternative is to either ridicule or admit he is wrong.

 

[Van]

More copy and paste regurgitation of nonsense.
None of these verses, "- Mt. 16:16-17; 2 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:15-16." say faith is created supernaturally within the individual. Not one. More smoke.

Lets pick one at random, 2 Cor. 4:6. Does this even address faith? Nope. It is describing how Paul received the gospel message. So totally non-germane. This is the nonsense that the nameless doctrine folks present as evidence for their mythology.

 

[The Biblicist]

More copy and paste regurgitation of nonsense.
None of these verses, "- Mt. 16:16-17; 2 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:15-16." say faith is created supernaturally within the individual. Not one. More smoke.

Lets pick one at random, 2 Cor. 4:6. Does this even address faith? Nope. It is describing how Paul received the gospel message. So totally non-germane. This is the nonsense that the nameless doctrine folks present as evidence for their mythology.

Here is ignorance dressed up in arrogance without any substance other than pride.

 

[Van]

First you get the smoke, post # 45, then the smear, post #47. Here is the truth, God does credit our faith as righteousness. It is not a myth. The myth is claiming first God instills faith (just ignore all the "your faith" verses) and then credits as righteousness the faith He instilled.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

2 Corinthians 4:6. 'For it is God who commanded light to shine out of darkness, who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.'
'Nuff said, I think.

 

[Van]

Repeating the nonsense does not make sense. The knowledge is the gospel of Christ as given to Paul. To rip this verse out of context and claim it supports God instilling faith is absurd, ridiculous nonsense. Nuff said.

 

[The Biblicist]

Repeating the nonsense does not make sense.

Amen! And that is all you have been doing since you have been on this thread. No serious responses, no serious expositions, no serious answers and it is not because you have not been presented serious evidence, you just don't have anything worthwhile to consider and so you just repeat nonsense!

 

[Van]

LOL, all these posts citing non-germane verses, making arguments such as since God gave the gospel to Paul, therefore He gives faith, never mind the dozen or so verses that say "your faith", are nonsense.

The myth is the nameless doctrine claiming we are saved then given faith, whereas Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace through faith, thus our faith precedes salvation. Romans 4:5 says God credits our faith as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God chooses us for salvation through faith in the truth. Romans 5:2 says our faith in Christ provides our access to the grace in which we stand.

The truth is there is absolutely no support anywhere in scripture for the myth God instills faith. None, zip, nada. Just as it is a myth that Christ died only for the elect, rather than He laid down His life as a ransom for all. Just as it is a myth that God chose us for salvation unconditionally, rather than as scripture says, through faith in the truth.

 

[The Biblicist]

Faith is created by God in connection with the revelation of the gospel within the heart of the elect, which is the "substance" as well as the "hope" of justifying faith - Mt. 16:16-17; 2 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:15-16.

A. 2 Cor. 4:6 clearly and explicitly gives the creation of literal light by the effectual spoken word of God in Genesis 1:3 to be analgous with the creation of the metaphorical light of knowledge of God in the person of Christ in the heart by the effectual empowering of the gospel by God.

1. The Clear reference to Genesis 1:3 is indisputable - " For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,"

2. That it is provided as an analogous manner is indisputable - "hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

3. In Genesis 1:3 light was created by God speaking it into existence - this is indisputable.

4. In 2 Cor. 4:6 the direct analogy is God creating the metaphorical light of knowledge by speaking it into existence IN THE HEART (as no human can work in the heart).

5. The Word empowered by God in the heart to reveal this light of knowledge is the gospel and it is not the work of any human preacher as Paul immediately denies this work in the heart is of human power but is the power of God - 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

6. The power he is speaking of is the power that creates the light of knowledge within the human heart in the previous verse.

7. In 2 Cor. 4:4-6 the only possible application of verse 6 is the gospel knowledge of Christ and this is implanted in the heart by a creative act of God.

8. Faith has no existence apart from "substance" and it is that same "substance" which is the basis of "hope" (Heb. 11:4). Who can deny that in the context of 2 Cor. 4:4-6 that the knowledge revealed by God in the heart is the gospel of Christ as the gospel is the subject matter in the previous three verses? This is an explicit statement by Paul that the very substance and hope of justifying faith is the creative work of God in the human heart (v. 6) and not of man (v. 7).


B. Matthew 16:16-17 and Gal. 1:15-16 clearly demands that the profession of faith in Christ is not something originating with Peter or Paul or any human but has its sole origin by revelation from God just as Paul teaches in 2 Cor. 4:6:

Mt. 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


Gal. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ........
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me,

1. In both cases it is the Son that is revealed by the Father to Peter and Paul ("my father....reveal HIS Son in me")

2. In both cases it is by REVELATION ("revealed it unto thee....my Father.......by the revelation....reveal his son in me")

3. In both cases it does not have its origin with other humans/preachers ("for flesh and blood hath not revealed it..........not after man. ..neither received of man, neither was I taught it.").

4. God called Paul from His mother's womb as effectually as he called him by new birth ("when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, AND called my by his grace to reveal his son in me"

5. Therefore, the substance of a true confession of faith is not of man but it is the work of God by divine revelation.


C. John 6:44 denies that faith originates with man - "no man CAN come to me"

1. Jesus does not say "some men" can - but "no man can"

2. In context "come to me" is defined previously in John 6:35 as believing in him for eternal life. It is metaphorically described as "eating" and "drinking" of Christ as one would partake of food, faith is partaking of Christ.

3. Coming to Christ by faith for eternal life IS NOT OF MAN but of God - clearly stated. This is clearly stated in John 6:29 "this is the WORK OF GOD that ye believe." This is then proven in John 6:37-39 as the work of God that precedes "ALL" who come to Christ by faith is having been given by God before the incarnation. This is additionally proven by the fact that he work of God called drawing must precede any man coming to Christ by faith in John 6:44. This is again proven negatively in John 6:64-65 where the cause for those who never truly believed in their heart "from the beginning" of their profession is that "it" (ability to come) was never given unto them by the Father.


D. Paul tells the Philippians that the ability to believe in Christ was "given" unto them - Philip. 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1. The immediate preceding verses are about the gospel and response to tribulation (vv. 27-28) which is the precise order in verse 29 (believe on him....also to suffer" for him).

2. God's will is the source of circumstantial sufferings as much as His will is the source of saving faith as a creative act (Mt. 16:17; Gal. 1:16; 2 Cor. 4:6; Jn. 6:44; 64-65).


CONCLUSION: In all three of the first texts (2 Cor. 4:6; Mt. 16:16-17; Gal. 1:15-16) the very substance of saving faith, that the mouth confesses (Mt. 16:16) does not originate from man but originates as a creative act of God or as a divine revelation in the heart. In all three texts this divine revelation as a creative act of God precedes any true confession of faith and is explicitly stated to be the true origin and source of such a confession. John 6:44 denies that saving faith has its origin with man but explicitly demands its origin is with the work of God. Hence, saving faith is instilled in man by the work of God as the only other alternative is it is of man and John 6:44 denies that. Philippians 1:29 clearly and explicitly states that saving faith in the gospel of Christ is given by God and is as much under the control of God's will as the circumstances (providence) that result in the privilege for suffering for Christ.

 

[Van]

Yet another copy and paste avalanche of inane verbiage.

Scripture refers to faith with "your faith has saved you." Your faith, not your instilled faith. Not one verse or passage says our faith is instilled.

God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, or not. It is up to Him and Him alone.

Conclusion - God provides the revelatory grace of the gospel of Christ. If we accept it fully and place our trust and devotion in Christ alone, God will credit our faith as righteousness and transfer us into the kingdom of His Son.

 

[The Biblicist]

Faith is created by God in connection with the revelation of the gospel within the heart of the elect, which is the "substance" as well as the "hope" of justifying faith - Mt. 16:16-17; 2 Cor. 4:6; Gal. 1:15-16.

A. 2 Cor. 4:6 clearly and explicitly gives the creation of literal light by the effectual spoken word of God in Genesis 1:3 to be analgous with the creation of the metaphorical light of knowledge of God in the person of Christ in the heart by the effectual empowering of the gospel by God.

1. The Clear reference to Genesis 1:3 is indisputable - " For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,"

2. That it is provided as an analogous manner is indisputable - "hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

3. In Genesis 1:3 light was created by God speaking it into existence - this is indisputable.

4. In 2 Cor. 4:6 the direct analogy is God creating the metaphorical light of knowledge by speaking it into existence IN THE HEART (as no human can work in the heart).

5. The Word empowered by God in the heart to reveal this light of knowledge is the gospel and it is not the work of any human preacher as Paul immediately denies this work in the heart is of human power but is the power of God - 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

6. The power he is speaking of is the power that creates the light of knowledge within the human heart in the previous verse.

7. In 2 Cor. 4:4-6 the only possible application of verse 6 is the gospel knowledge of Christ and this is implanted in the heart by a creative act of God.

8. Faith has no existence apart from "substance" and it is that same "substance" which is the basis of "hope" (Heb. 11:4). Who can deny that in the context of 2 Cor. 4:4-6 that the knowledge revealed by God in the heart is the gospel of Christ as the gospel is the subject matter in the previous three verses? This is an explicit statement by Paul that the very substance and hope of justifying faith is the creative work of God in the human heart (v. 6) and not of man (v. 7).


B. Matthew 16:16-17 and Gal. 1:15-16 clearly demands that the profession of faith in Christ is not something originating with Peter or Paul or any human but has its sole origin by revelation from God just as Paul teaches in 2 Cor. 4:6:

Mt. 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


Gal. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ........
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me,

1. In both cases it is the Son that is revealed by the Father to Peter and Paul ("my father....reveal HIS Son in me")

2. In both cases it is by REVELATION ("revealed it unto thee....my Father.......by the revelation....reveal his son in me")

3. In both cases it does not have its origin with other humans/preachers ("for flesh and blood hath not revealed it..........not after man. ..neither received of man, neither was I taught it.").

4. God called Paul from His mother's womb as effectually as he called him by new birth ("when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, AND called my by his grace to reveal his son in me"

5. Therefore, the substance of a true confession of faith is not of man but it is the work of God by divine revelation.


C. John 6:44 denies that faith originates with man - "no man CAN come to me"

1. Jesus does not say "some men" can - but "no man can"

2. In context "come to me" is defined previously in John 6:35 as believing in him for eternal life. It is metaphorically described as "eating" and "drinking" of Christ as one would partake of food, faith is partaking of Christ.

3. Coming to Christ by faith for eternal life IS NOT OF MAN but of God - clearly stated. This is clearly stated in John 6:29 "this is the WORK OF GOD that ye believe." This is then proven in John 6:37-39 as the work of God that precedes "ALL" who come to Christ by faith is having been given by God before the incarnation. This is additionally proven by the fact that he work of God called drawing must precede any man coming to Christ by faith in John 6:44. This is again proven negatively in John 6:64-65 where the cause for those who never truly believed in their heart "from the beginning" of their profession is that "it" (ability to come) was never given unto them by the Father.


D. Paul tells the Philippians that the ability to believe in Christ was "given" unto them - Philip. 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1. The immediate preceding verses are about the gospel and response to tribulation (vv. 27-28) which is the precise order in verse 29 (believe on him....also to suffer" for him).

2. God's will is the source of circumstantial sufferings as much as His will is the source of saving faith as a creative act (Mt. 16:17; Gal. 1:16; 2 Cor. 4:6; Jn. 6:44; 64-65).


CONCLUSION: In all three of the first texts (2 Cor. 4:6; Mt. 16:16-17; Gal. 1:15-16) the very substance of saving faith, that the mouth confesses (Mt. 16:16) does not originate from man but originates as a creative act of God or as a divine revelation in the heart. In all three texts this divine revelation as a creative act of God precedes any true confession of faith and is explicitly stated to be the true origin and source of such a confession. John 6:44 denies that saving faith has its origin with man but explicitly demands its origin is with the work of God. Hence, saving faith is instilled in man by the work of God as the only other alternative is it is of man and John 6:44 denies that. Philippians 1:29 clearly and explicitly states that saving faith in the gospel of Christ is given by God and is as much under the control of God's will as the circumstances (providence) that result in the privilege for suffering for Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

Van's whole position is false as he even rejects that Abraham was actually justified as a completed action (Aorist tense verb "justified" - Rom. 4:11) within the restricted time period "in uncircumcision." He rejects justification consisted of imputation of a foreign alien righteousness inseparably connected with full remission of sins even though Paul clearly and explicitly states that Abraham's sins were fully remitted and righteousness fully imputed at the point of faith (Rom. 4:1-3; 6-8).

Let's look at the contextual evidence:

1. He was justified - v. 11 The Aorist tense verb translated "had" at minimum demands a completed action, meaning "the righteousness of faith" was applied at the point of faith (described in verse 2-3).

11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

2. It is the "righteousness" that is imputed to him and others - v. 11 "that righteousness might be imputed" - Van is wrong when he says that it is merely faith that is imputed, but it is the righteousness of God in Christ embraced by faith that is imputed proving that "faith" simply represents its object - the righteousness of God" found in Christ and that faith is in Christ. This is not my mere opinion but is explicitly stated and established previous to the use of Abraham as an illustration in Romans 3:21-22 where Paul says:

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Notice it is "the righteousness of God" which is "by" faith. This faith is "of Jesus Christ" and verse 24-26 prove this must be the objective genitive or faith which has for its object Jesus Christ as Romans 3:26 defines it so by the words "believe IN Jesus Christ." Paul then states that is "by faith" in Christ that the righteousness of God is "unto all and upon all them THAT BELIEVE". This demands that the later statement "his faith was imputed to him for righteousness" is referring to faith in Christ whereby the righteousness of God is what is imputed to the believer or as Paul says "unto all and upon all them that believe."

This proves that Van's interpretation of "faith being credited for righteousness" is false and contrary to the immediate preceding context as well as the immediate following context where Paul explicitly states that it is "righteouness" which is imputed by faith (Rom. 4:11) and then repeats it again in Romans 4:23-25 that it is belief in God's provision as promised in the gospel of Christ that justified Abraham and "all who are of faith" that is this kind of faith which has Christ as its object.

Again, the grammar and context demand that Abraham was fully and completed justified at the point of faith in God's provision in the promised "seed" or Christ to Abraham.


1. This completed action of justification is identified as the "Blessed" state - vv. 6,9

2. This "blessed" condition is the non-imputation of sins past and future - vv. 7-8 at that point in time rather than later.

3. This "blessed" condition is immediate imputation of God's own righteousness at the point of faith in the gospel provision of the promised "seed".

What Van is teaching is SNIP a complete denial of the Biblical doctrine of justification. He can't answer this point for point. His only refuge is ridicule SNIP.

 

[Van]

More blah, blah, blah. Did Abraham go to the kingdom of heaven when he died, or to Abraham's bosom? Why not if he had been justified by the promised blood of Christ?

The nameless doctrine position is a myth.

Did the seal of circumcision provide a sign of the "righteousness" that he had by faith. Yes, his faith was credited to him as righteousness. Did this make him righteous, or did he have to wait to be washed by the blood of the lamb? He had to wait to be made perfect under the promised New Covenant.

The nameless doctrine presents one myth after another. But here are some biblical truths.

1) Faith precedes election, salvation, justification.
2) Christ died for all mankind.
3) We are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
4) Nobody was quickened, made alive, regenerated before Christ died.
5) Nobody seeks God all the time or when they are sinning, but some people seek God some of the time, such as the men of Matthew 23:13.​

 

[The Biblicist]

More blah, blah, blah. Did Abraham go to the kingdom of heaven when he died, or to Abraham's bosom? Why not if he had been justified by the promised blood of Christ?

The nameless doctrine position is a myth.

Did the seal of circumcision provide a sign of the "righteousness" that he had by faith. Yes, his faith was credited to him as righteousness. Did this make him righteous, or did he have to wait to be washed by the blood of the lamb? He had to wait to be made perfect under the promised New Covenant.

The nameless doctrine presents one myth after another. But here are some biblical truths.

1) Faith precedes election, salvation, justification.
2) Christ died for all mankind.
3) We are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
4) Nobody was quickened, made alive, regenerated before Christ died.
5) Nobody seeks God all the time or when they are sinning, but some people seek God some of the time, such as the men of Matthew 23:13.​

Notice just all mouthy assertions empty of scripture. Also notice that he could not refute even one exegetical based point, not even one point!

 

[Van]

LOL your "exegetical based points" are without merit. Saying apples are like peaches so instilling the gospel is proof faith is instilled is utter nonsense.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Notice just all mouthy assertions empty of scripture. Also notice that he could not refute even one exegetical based point, not even one point!

This is par for the course with Van. There is simply no reasoning with him and trying to do so just messes up the threads.
If you will take my advice, you will put him on ignore. In about 20 years of being on discussion forums he is the first person I've had to do it to, but there comes a point where it's either that or putting a boot through the computer screen.