I agree that regeneration, unlike conversion, comes unnoticed but conversion is more dramitic in the fact that most of us can remember when we were converted, however, we (all of God's elect that he choose before the foundation of the world), were eternally saved by Christ upon the cross. Eternal salvation, then regeneration, and then conversion.
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The natural man
- Thread starter Forest
- Start date
I can't answer for Jonathan, but the scriptures show the natural man can be enlightened, and even brought to the point of repentance and still fall away in unbelief.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Now, I tend to agree with Willis, it is not the flesh or natural man that is enlightened, but the spirit of man. But these scriptures show a man can be enlightened or taught, that is, brought to an understanding of what they need to do to be saved, and yet fall away in unbelief. They can be brought to the point of repentance, and yet turn away. They can "taste" of salvation, but do not "eat".
They are compared to earth that God has graciously rained upon and dressed, but instead of bringing forth herbs which God intended, bring forth thorns and briers.
This is not speaking of believers, otherwise you must believe that a person can lose their salvation. No, this is speaking of natural men who are brought to understanding and repentance by God, but who turn away in unbelief. There is no more solution for them. I believe from this point on these persons will be progressively hardened to the gospel, a very dangerous place to be.
convicted1
Guest
:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
Jesus is speaking of the Word of God here. For some reason, folks always overlook that Jesus said we can hear the Spirit. How? The Word of God.
Interesting idea winman but I don't see a link to the word of God in the context except perhaps the idea of the "water" of John 3 which most attribute to our flesh birth.
However that does not mean the connection is not there.
What then are those attributes of the "born again" which Jesus said to Nicodemus "thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth"?
Those attributes which can only come through mortal men who have been born again with the Spirit abiding in them.
Galatian 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
It is impossible for the flesh to mimick these attributes no matter how great the attempt because only the Spirit can overcome the flesh.
The fruit of the Spirit is supernatural and the human witness of the sons of God which can be heard and seen by the unregenerate as the Spirit uses our voices to call them to salvation.
So (IMO), yes in a way you are correct as it involves the written word of God, the reproval of the Spirit and the human witness of the sons of God calling others to salvation.
"In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established"
Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Of course the priorities must be in line with the scripture.
1 John 5
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
HankD
God quickens his elect from a state of being dead in sins to being spiritually alive in Christ, Eph 2:1-5. God's elect will never lose their gift of eternal life. They can lose their fellowship with God which is what these scriptures you have quoted are refering to.
The natural man can never believe anything of a spiritual nature, or come to an understanding of spiritual things, unless he first is quickened to a spiritual life by God.1 Cor 2:14.
Only his sheep hear him. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. The natural man thinks the word of God is foolishness. 1 Cor 2:14.
Then who are these persons who have been enlightened in Hebrews 6 that have fallen away? And note that they cannot be renewed again unto repentance.
So, who are these people?
convicted1
Guest
Good question....
Most of God's elect are not members of the church because they are wearing not the wedding garment (the righteousness of Christ). They are depending upon their own righteousness. When those who the Spirit has revealed to them the truth, and then are fallen away they cannot be renewed to be a part of the church any more. Matt 7:13-14 is refering to those elect that go in the wide gate and the strait gate. Those who go in the wide gate are God's elect who are trusting in their own righteousness and those who go in the strait gate are God's elect that have been revealed the truth and the narrow path leads , not to eternal life, but to that abundant life we can enjoy while we live here in this world. Those of the strait gate are the church. Those of God's elect who have fallen away do not lose their eternal salvation, but do lose their fellowship with God.