The Nature of Christ

[Yeshua1]

And that confession is not according to the word of God, in that case. Since that teaching is false.

Neither the Son of God nor the Father are caused. "Begotten" is a cause, and what is caused is never God.

Begotten is eternally being generated, so there is no first cause, as Jesus has existed as long as the Father has!

 

[JonC]

I see Jesus as having both natures of God and man at same time, forever, and he can get hungry and feel pain die to his Humanity, and can do miracles and overcome the grave due to being God also.

I agree. If God never became man then God would never have experienced human suffering. Had Jesus not been God he would not have had the authority that was given Him.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Logos is God's sole agent of cause (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 1:2-3; John 1:18). Which means the Logos with God are both uncaused.

The Logos proceeding forth from God the father, but never was a time he did not exist!

 

[Yeshua1]

The eternal generation of the Son removes cause as an obstacle because the Son has always existed. The council of Nicea took care to eliminate even a hint of causation when describing the Son:

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made." (emphasis mine)

The debate about "begotten" stems from the Greek term monogenes. Modern scholarship has tried to change how this term is interpreted. It ignores historical context and the flexibility of the term as it operates within different contexts.

The term only begotten in the Greek would refer to eternal existence, basically however God the Father has existed His word/Son would also be!

 

[Yeshua1]

It is difficult (probably impossible) to try and sum up the issue of natures with one statement. I suspect that is why so much went into the creeds (not just as a statement but also how they worked out the philosophy of “nature” and “persons”). I believe the third correct (Jesus being True God and True man - the union of God and man, two natures, distinct yet inseparable).

Here is what I believe (for what it's worth):

There is One God. This One God is in three distinct Persons (the Father, Son, and Spirit). The Son is given to man to know God and no one comes to know God (or the Father) except by the Son who is an exact representation of the Father and declares God to mankind as all the fulness of God dwells in Him bodily.

The Son is one Person of the Trinity. He is one in person (He does not act or experience things in a duality of personalities (e.g., Jesus does not do one thing in divine nature and yet another in His human nature).

The Son is the Logos. He is eternally begotten of God. He was not made but is eternally proceeding from the Father, of the same essence as is the Father. The Son, eternally begotten, was made flesh at a point in time.

Christ is acknowledged in two natures. These natures are distinct, unchangeable, indivisible, and inseparable. These two natures are evidenced in the work of Christ (that Jesus is God is demonstrated in the winds obeying His command; that He is human is evidenced in His growing tired, hungry, and suffering).

The distinction of the two natures do not take away from their union in the Person of Christ. Each nature is preserved and concurring in Christ. Calming the sea illuminates Christ’s divinity, but is not accomplished in such a way as to exclude His humanity. Growing weary points to Christ’s humanity, but is not experienced in such a way as to exclude His divinity. The two-natures are distinct but not separate. They are inseparable.

Jesus is fully God and man, but he could not experience what he suffered if just was God natured, a shad to have His humanity for that!

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree. If God never became man then God would never have experienced human suffering. Had Jesus not been God he would not have had the authority that was given Him.

I am not saying that itys either he was as man, or as God, was always as both fully, its just that the nature of man allowed him to suffer and bleed, while the nature of God allowed Him to do miracles and such!

 

[37818]

Begotten is eternally being generated, so there is no first cause, as Jesus has existed as long as the Father has!

That having no first cause is not the problem. That "begotten" is a cause is the problem. The Son is not caused in any way. He is the sole cause (John 1:3) and has not anything causing Him to be the Son. Biblically the term "begotten" is only use to refer to His resurrection from the dead Psalms 2:7, Acts 13:33.

 

[Grasshopper]

Theanthropic!

Jesus Christ - His Incarnation

 

[Yeshua1]

That having no first cause is not the problem. That "begotten" is a cause is the problem. The Son is not caused in any way. He is the sole cause (John 1:3) and has not anything causing Him to be the Son. Biblically the term "begotten" is only use to refer to His resurrection from the dead Psalms 2:7, Acts 13:33.

Jesus is God the Son Incarnated , and he has always been generated from/by the Father!

 

[37818]

Jesus is God the Son Incarnated , and he has always been generated from/by the Father!

What is generated is not what God is. And what ever is generated is done by the Son ( John 1:3).

 

[Yeshua1]

What is generated is not what God is. And what ever is generated is done by the Son ( John 1:3).

The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from Both Father and the Son!

 

[37818]

The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from Both Father and the Son!

The incarnation and ascension.

 

[JohnDBaptiste]

On another thread (on the Baptist only section) there is a discussion regarding the nature of Christ.

I believe that all here would agree that Jesus is God Incarnate (God become flesh). I can see three options:

Jesus is part God and part man (God/man)
Jesus is God as if he is not man, man as if he is not God (God + man)
Jesus is no less God than God, no more man than man (God-man)

Some on the Baptist section argue Jesus' nature is God + man (God as if he is not man, and man as if he is not God).

I believe the third option correct (God is no less God than God - God of very God and God is no more man than man, in every human way made like us, yet without sin). It simply seems to me that Scripture never speaks of Jesus as if He were not God, and also never as if He were not man. I do not understand why we should either. He is God-man, God with us, Immanuel, the Word made flesh. We cannot leave out either Christ's divinity or His humanity (they are inseparable).

Other (missing option in the poll).

Clearly Jesus is God the Word become man (the last Adam in fact, which is a prototype).

How much or where in his body is he God or just human or how omniscient / omnipotent / omnipresent he is IMHO is not specified in scripture. If it were important or any of our business then the scriptures would say.

The nehushtan effect is what I call such pursuits (like finding a piece of the cross or Noah's ark, or even placing a date on the calendar for the birth of Christ). They are either worshiped, traditionalized, secularized, equated with God or even salvation.... voodoo or superstition...

God gave us the Law of Moses in part to wean us from these things. But the more things change the more they stay the same.

 

[JohnDBaptiste]

The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from Both Father and the Son!

John 14:26 / John 15:26 proving the Father is not the Son or the Spirit, the Son is not the Father or the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Father or the Son.

 

[JonC]

Other (missing option in the poll).

Clearly Jesus is God the Word become man (the last Adam in fact, which is a prototype).

How much or where in his body is he God or just human or how omniscient / omnipotent / omnipresent he is IMHO is not specified in scripture. If it were important or any of our business then the scriptures would say.

The nehushtan effect is what I call such pursuits (like finding a piece of the cross or Noah's ark, or even placing a date on the calendar for the birth of Christ). They are either worshiped, traditionalized, secularized, equated with God or even salvation.... voodoo or superstition...

God gave us the Law of Moses in part to wean us from these things. But the more things change the more they stay the same.

Perhaps another thing missing is a definition of "nature".