The nature of free will and where might it come from.

[quantumfaith]

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I am not saying he did not have will or volition. Everybody has that even now in their sinful state.

Why would Adam have been less than perfect if he had no free will?

Are you saying that God could not create a being without will??
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I don't recall "right or wrong" being part of my argument.

I am saying that God does not have the ability to stop loving the Son. He cannot BUT love the Son and for this very reason- his love is PERFECT.

The greatest love is UTTERLY void of the freedom of will.

Luke, that is the most curious and honest question....for myself. Could God create "creatures" incapable of falling....if so, would those creatures be like Him.... omni (et al). What do you think?

 

[Luke2427]

Luke, that is the most curious and honest question....for myself. Could God create "creatures" incapable of falling....if so, would those creatures be like Him.... omni (et al). What do you think?

Yes. He "is able to keep you from falling."

Once glorified billions of us are creatures that are incapable of falling.

There are doubtlessly countless angels that will never fall.

 

[percho]

Yes. He "is able to keep you from falling."

Once glorified billions of us are creatures that are incapable of falling.

There are doubtlessly countless angels that will never fall.

I agree with you for I believe, "The New Covenant," is about just that.

The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam a quickening Spirit and we therefore in him at his appearing and his kingdom. The Holy Spirit setting us apart for that.

The old covenant could not be kept by the living souls for it required something of them I do not believe living souls could do. At least to my knowledge in the history of living souls only one did.

Heb. 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith,

They had responded, "All the LORD has said we will do."

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
10 For this the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

At his appearing and his kingdom to judge the quick and the dead there will be, a being born again of spiritual beings in the image of the firstborn from the dead, resurrected Son of God, the quickening Spirit, last Adam, JESUS of Nazareth.

Born to sin no more eternal sons of God.

I have another question. Was the creation of the first man Adam in the image of God, the ultimate creation of man in the image of God or was it just the beginning of the creation of man in the image of God which would be finalized by the resurrection of the Son of Man born of woman, from the dead, the Son of God, the last Adam through which men who were born as the first man Adam could be born again as the last Adam?

Does not the following verses read in this order not say this very thing?

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:18,15


Would this be relative to my original OP?

 

[Luke2427]

I agree with you for I believe, "The New Covenant," is about just that.

The first man Adam was made a living soul, the last Adam a quickening Spirit and we therefore in him at his appearing and his kingdom. The Holy Spirit setting us apart for that.

The old covenant could not be kept by the living souls for it required something of them I do not believe living souls could do. At least to my knowledge in the history of living souls only one did.

Heb. 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith,

They had responded, "All the LORD has said we will do."

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
10 For this the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

At his appearing and his kingdom to judge the quick and the dead there will be, a being born again of spiritual beings in the image of the firstborn from the dead, resurrected Son of God, the quickening Spirit, last Adam, JESUS of Nazareth.

Born to sin no more eternal sons of God.

I have another question. Was the creation of the first man Adam in the image of God, the ultimate creation of man in the image of God or was it just the beginning of the creation of man in the image of God which would be finalized by the resurrection of the Son of Man born of woman, from the dead, the Son of God, the last Adam through which men who were born as the first man Adam could be born again as the last Adam?

Does not the following verses read in this order not say this very thing?

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all he might have the preeminence.
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col. 1:18,15


Would this be relative to my original OP?

I think so.

But I think where a lot of folks miss it here is that they think Eden was God's plan A and Adam and the serpent messed all of that up so Calvary and the New Heavens and Earth are God's plan B.

What they think is God's plan B has always been God's ONLY plan and the creation of a man who God KNEW would fall (he created him in a way and in a universe in which that fall was CERTAIN to come to pass)- that was all just a means to God's ultimate end which so many Christians wrongly think is God's plan B.

 

[percho]

I think so.

But I think where a lot of folks miss it here is that they think Eden was God's plan A and Adam and the serpent messed all of that up so Calvary and the New Heavens and Earth are God's plan B.

What they think is God's plan B has always been God's ONLY plan and the creation of a man who God KNEW would fall (he created him in a way and in a universe in which that fall was CERTAIN to come to pass)- that was all just a means to God's ultimate end which so many Christians wrongly think is God's plan B.

I agree. Physical man in the image of God, yet subject to death, a power of Satan, was the means by which Hebrews 2:14 comes about.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb. 2:14 KJV


Granted it involves more than that, such as a man born of woman, yet sinless, the Son of God, plus, redemption for the sinner. How does this come about. The sinless one, subject to death the power of Satan, by faith in his Father gives his life as the payment for sin. His Father then because of His righteousness, by His grace fulfills His promise of the hope of eternal life to His dead Son who had given his life, by faith. Renewing His Son with the promise of the Holy Spirit which is then shed on men.