The nature of God's Kingdom

[DHK]

DHK
You think this is valid to accuse brothers and sisters this way?
I see.....okay...in that case...you have become totally evil and demented in your thinking.
I included the prepositional modifier for you...

This is a deliberate misrepresentation, and it is evil for you to make such a statement as this. If you have read my posts you would have understood what I have said. I will explain it again.

I told her that she had become "agnostic in her thinking."
Sometimes I tell some of the Cals on here that their hard determinism is very much like the fatalism of Islam. That doesn't mean I am calling them Muslims, and I didn't call BW agnostic. If you are unable to comprehend the English language and deal with comparisons then please, go back to school. I have already given plenty of examples in previous posts how agnostics use the same "thinking or reasoning."
I don't need to be called names by you.

Your post is following the evil, unbelieving spiritually demented thinking of the reprobate who speaks evil and profane things about God.....accusing God...

Nonsense. Again, go to school and learn some English.
There is a difference between "allow" and "control".
What does God allow? And What does God control?
Does God control everything in your life, or does he allow you the freedom to commit your own sins of misrepresentation, false accusations, lying, etc.?
Control or allow? Does God control everything?

 

[Iconoclast]

This is a deliberate misrepresentation, and it is evil for you to make such a statement as this. If you have read my posts you would have understood what I have said. I will explain it again.

I told her that she had become "agnostic in her thinking."
Sometimes I tell some of the Cals on here that their hard determinism is very much like the fatalism of Islam. That doesn't mean I am calling them Muslims, and I didn't call BW agnostic. If you are unable to comprehend the English language and deal with comparisons then please, go back to school. I have already given plenty of examples in previous posts how agnostics use the same "thinking or reasoning."
I don't need to be called names by you.


Nonsense. Again, go to school and learn some English.
There is a difference between "allow" and "control".
What does God allow? And What does God control?
Does God control everything in your life, or does he allow you the freedom to commit your own sins of misrepresentation, false accusations, lying, etc.?
Control or allow? Does God control everything?

Your hatred of Calvinism spills over into every thread.
I used the exact form that you used against BW318.....to you.
If you did not like it...then why do you say such things to us?
You were asked several times in this thread to stop....they asked you to please stop it.

We have answered you on this topic many times..... You do not like our answer.
We showed you the language of the confession of faith....you do not like it...
No one says you have to like it.
That being said.....it is you and you alone who even post such ideas that quite frankly are profane suggesting that God is the author of sin.
No Calvinist, no Calvinist document says anything close to that.
If you can produce one such document that any of us have ever posted....do so right now.
Where is it? You make this claim....show it , or repent of such posting.

 

[Iconoclast]

Postmillenialism is the belief that God's Kingdom will advance throughout history, that all authority in "heaven and in earth" has been given to Jesus, that God's Kingdom is represented by the stonethat is cut without hands and becomes a mountain that fills the whole earth [dan.2:34, 44-45]
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure....from pg87

Many postmill persons find it then easy to consider the claims of the Reconstructionists as they seek to evangelize then disciple the nations here and now.

30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him

 

[Iconoclast]

pg 97;
The Kingdom has come, is coming, will come, and one day will be delivered up to God the Father, when "He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He MUST reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet" [1 cor 15:24-25]
The bible clearly states that Jesus reign is a present reality. He is sitting on David's throne
[Acts 2:22-36]
He has been seated at the Fathers" right hand in the heavenly places".[Eph 1:20]

 

[Internet Theologian]

It is a sad thing to behold this exalting of the alleged role of Satan to an ubiblical height, and passages glorifying Christ in His office are diminished.

Rahab's conversion and declaration of YHWH, her recognition of His Sovereign reign over heaven and earth, something she saw and knew, something so clear in the text, this had to be mitigated as well. All proofs disregarded for what, so Satan can be exalted in his alleged role, so that texts showing the exalted Christ of God can be disregarded? Brethren, I've not ever witnessed nor heard such a doctrine taught in a church once.

 

[DHK]

It is a sad thing to behold this exalting of the alleged role of Satan to an ubiblical height, and passages glorifying Christ in His office are diminished.

Rahab's conversion and declaration of YHWH, her recognition of His Sovereign reign over heaven and earth, something she saw and knew, something so clear in the text, this had to be mitigated as well. All proofs disregarded for what, so Satan can be exalted in his alleged role, so that texts showing the exalted Christ of God can be disregarded? Brethren, I've not ever witnessed nor heard such a doctrine taught in a church once.

What happened here?
Joshua 2:10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed.
--She heard what happened. She had some general revelation, nothing specific. From that general revelation she concluded

11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.
--She believed. She became a believer in Jehvoah and expressed her thoughts above. There is no mention of a kingdom.

If I were to apply the same thought process that you and others here are using in the NT, you would be all over me calling me foolish. True?
Let's see:
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--It is impossible for her to become a believer. These truths are "spiritually discerned." She cannot understand them. She is like "dead meat." She cannot come to any conclusion that God is Jehovah because she is dead. Dead people cannot respond to the gospel.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
--Where is the total inability in Rahab?
According to Calvinism she cannot respond. This is free will, not the bondage that Calvinism teaches.
It is impossible for her to make the statement she just did. All she had was the testimony of some miracles that she heard second hand. That even was hearsay--not validated as the resurrection was.
Yet she had faith--human faith, not what you would call "saving faith," for nowhere does it indicate that this was that faith that was given to her by God. It wasn't.
For Rahab to be saved under the conditions you describe you would have to forsake your beloved Calvinism. And that is okay by me.

 

[blessedwife318]

Are you really going to say that Rahab was not saved, when she is listed in the Hall of Faith of Heb 11
"By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies." Heb 11:31
I guess she is inconvenient to you idea of Satan being the ruler of the earth so she has to be destroyed. I guess you will have to cut out Heb 11 just like you suggested with 1 John, since they don't agree with you.

 

[Internet Theologian]

What happened here?

That's a good beginning point for you, but if told, you would resort to what?

She believed. She became a believer in Jehvoah and expressed her thoughts above. There is no mention of a kingdom.

I know, I know, since she didn't say 'kingdom' it isn't there according to you. That He is God of heaven and earth isn't enough for you to make the clear connection. However, if she had said Satan is the god of the earth it doesn't take much imagination to know what you would answer to that.

If I were to apply the same thought process that you and others here are using in the NT, you would be all over me calling me foolish. True?

I allow person's to paint their own picture with their own brush of their own self.

Let's see:
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
--It is impossible for her to become a believer. These truths are "spiritually discerned." She cannot understand them. She is like "dead meat." She cannot come to any conclusion that God is Jehovah because she is dead. Dead people cannot respond to the gospel.

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
--Where is the total inability in Rahab?

It is obvious where her inability had gone, and why.

According to Calvinism she cannot respond. This is free will, not the bondage that Calvinism teaches.

Scripture teaches it, men are in bondage to sin, none are free in will or in any other way, John 8:32ff.

It is impossible for her to make the statement she just did. All she had was the testimony of some miracles that she heard second hand. That even was hearsay--not validated as the resurrection was.

'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible' - Jesus Christ, YHWH of the OT.

Yet she had faith--human faith, not what you would call "saving faith," for nowhere does it indicate that this was that faith that was given to her by God. It wasn't.

God does things like that. Now you're showing your inconsistent system, in one place you say all men have faith, but here, conveniently, she didn't have any, just plain old human faith, of which faith you say needs exercised. But now you draw a distinction between saving faith and human faith.

But the Scriptures show she had faith, Joshua 2; Hebrews 11. You say that she didn't. Shall we make a stab in the dark as to who is correct?

For Rahab to be saved under the conditions you describe you would have to forsake your beloved Calvinism. And that is okay by me.

It reinforces Calvinism and dismantles anti-Calvinism.

 

[DHK]

Are you really going to say that Rahab was not saved, when she is listed in the Hall of Faith of Heb 11
"By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies." Heb 11:31
I guess she is inconvenient to you idea of Satan being the ruler of the earth so she has to be destroyed. I guess you will have to cut out Heb 11 just like you suggested with 1 John, since they don't agree with you.

No, not at all. I am just saying that if we apply the principles of TULIP, it is impossible for her to be saved.
Your theology is not consistent here. Her salvation is an example of what non-Cals believe.

 

[blessedwife318]

No, not at all. I am just saying that if we apply the principles of TULIP, it is impossible for her to be saved.
Your theology is not consistent here. Her salvation is an example of what non-Cals believe.

You are incorrect, as IT showed in his post. Rahab fits perfectly within the Biblical framework.

 

[DHK]

You are incorrect, as IT showed in his post. Rahab fits perfectly within the Biblical framework.

Consider all the facts carefully.

Joshua 2:11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath.
--This is merely a profession based on what she has seen. It is no different than the exclamation of the Israelites and their testimony after Elijah called down fire from heaven: "The Lord he is God; The Lord he is God." And then they went right back to serving Baal. There is no indication of her salvation here.

In fact, concerning Heb.11:31 MacDonald says:
We do not know when the harlot Rahab became a worshiper of Jehovah, but it is clear that she did. She abandoned the false religion of Canaan to become a Jewish proselyte. Her faith received a rigorous test when the spies came to her home. Would she be loyal to her country and her fellow countrymen, or would she be true to the Lord? She decided to stand on the Lord's side, even if it meant betraying her country. By giving friendly welcome to the spies, she and her family were spared, while her disobedient neighbors perished. (MacDonald)
--We have no concrete evidence when she became a believer.

On this thread the entire story hasn't been considered yet. What happened?
They took the city, and then what?
Jos 6:23-25
(23) And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel.
(24) And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD.
(25) And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho.
--If you read Spurgeon he believes that the family was not saved until they came out of the city that God had cursed. Rahab and her family had to be ceremonially cleansed. They were taken outside the camp (6:23) "without the camp of Israel." Previous to that all them men had to be circumcised.
--The city was burned with fire. It was cursed. Rahab had to come out of that which was cursed into that which was redeemed. She came out, and she entered in. It is a picture of salvation.

Her confession doesn't mean she was saved at that time.
There will many that call Jesus Lord, but shall not enter into the Kingdom of God.

 

[blessedwife318]

You really think that someone that is mentioned in the hall of faith, is not saved. Wow, that is a new one, I will give you that. Not only have you given to Satan what is Gods, but now you are tearing down the people mentioned in Heb. 11. I can't even begin to describe what is going on.... in you thinking.

 

[DHK]

You really think that someone that is mentioned in the hall of faith, is not saved. Wow, that is a new one, I will give you that. Not only have you given to Satan what is Gods, but now you are tearing down the people mentioned in Heb. 11. I can't even begin to describe what is going on.... in you thinking.

Why do you twist my words? In fact you even denied what I said.
The quote from MacDonald was a commentary on Heb.11:31. Did you read it?
We do not know when the harlot Rahab became a worshiper of Jehovah, but it is clear that she did.
--It is clear that she did. It is not clear when she became a believer. I never said she didn't. become a believer. So your argument is not only moot it is ridiculous.

 

[blessedwife318]

Why do you twist my words? In fact you even denied what I said.
The quote from MacDonald was a commentary on Heb.11:31. Did you read it?
We do not know when the harlot Rahab became a worshiper of Jehovah, but it is clear that she did.
--It is clear that she did. It is not clear when she became a believer. I never said she didn't. become a believer. So your argument is not only moot it is ridiculous.

Well I figure that is progress that you acknowledge that Rehab did in fact become saved.

 

[Internet Theologian]

Well I figure that is progress that you acknowledge that Rehab did in fact become saved.

All this just to try to denounce her acknowledgment of YHWH as Sovereign Lord reigning both in heaven and on earth. How did she know? Because God only reveals Himself to those whom He wills to do so, that is, to His elect, note Matthew 11:25ff.

 

[Iconoclast]

Why do you twist my words? In fact you even denied what I said.
The quote from MacDonald was a commentary on Heb.11:31. Did you read it?
We do not know when the harlot Rahab became a worshiper of Jehovah, but it is clear that she did.
--It is clear that she did. It is not clear when she became a believer. I never said she didn't. become a believer. So your argument is not only moot it is ridiculous.

You are quoting from the works of men...who is this macdonald?
I only follow the bible....I learn from no man, or the works of man.

This thread is not about Rahab .....

 

[blessedwife318]

All this just to try to denounce her acknowledgment of YHWH as Sovereign Lord reigning both in heaven and on earth. How did she know? Because God only reveals Himself to those whom He wills to do so, that is, to His elect, note Matthew 11:25ff.

I just can't imagine what someone would have to be ... in their thinking...to not want to acknowledge that God is the Sovereign over heaven and earth.
Ps. 24:1
The earth is the LORD’s and the fullness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein,
Ps. 135:6

Whatever the LORD pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.
And Jehoshaphat stood in the assembly of Judah and Jerusalem, in the house of the LORD, before the new court,6 and said, “O LORD, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand you.
2 Chr. 20-5:6

 

[Iconoclast]

No, not at all. I am just saying that if we apply the principles of TULIP, it is impossible for her to be saved.
Your theology is not consistent here. Her salvation is an example of what non-Cals believe.

In The kingdom of God Godd draws and saves all he intends to in the way he intends to,
Rahab comes the same way anyone else ...God's grace revealed by the supernatural work of God.

 

[DHK]

You are quoting from the works of men...who is this macdonald?
I only follow the bible....I learn from no man, or the works of man.

This thread is not about Rahab .....

You are right. It is not about Rahab. But who introduced Rahab? Was it you, claiming that in Josh.2:11 she was speaking of the kingdom, which is complete nonsense. We don't even know for sure if she was saved at that point.

 

[DHK]

In The kingdom of God Godd draws and saves all he intends to in the way he intends to,
Rahab comes the same way anyone else ...God's grace revealed by the supernatural work of God.

In Josh.2:11 she had never so much as heard one verse of the Word of God. She did not know who God was. He was some kind of deity that the Israelites worshiped. That is what she knew. How could she know anything other than that? Who would have told her? She had general revelation to go by, but no specific revelation. The ground you stand on is very shaky.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.