The Nature of the Spirit Questions

[Charles Perkins]

I still don't follow you. Your words speak like you are not Trinitarian.

I don't want to derail a conversation on suffering, so I'm bringing this discussion to another post.

I referred to John 3:34. For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Here are some other scriptures to consider:

2 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.

Number 11:25 Moses and the 70

To answer your question now. I have not been persuaded as of yet either way in regards to the nature of the Spirit. I trust God to guide me, but to say at this point I believed that the Holy Spirit was God would be dishonest. Neither do I disbelieve in the possibility.

I'm quoting scripture as to the nature of the Spirit, because I know it to be the final authority on all things spiritual.
There a great many things said on this topic in God's word. Many things are clear, some things less clear to me.

Feel free to enlighten me on the nature of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Charles Perkins]

There are a great many scriptures in the Bible speaking of the Spirit. I will continue my examination of the scriptures and continue to trust that it is God who opens the mind to understanding and truth. There are two Hebrew words (Strong's 5397 and 7307), a Chaldean word (Strong's 7308) and three Greek words (Strong's 4151, 4152 and 5326) with a total of 826 occurrences in 756 verses in the KJV. Not all are translated spirit or ghost.

As in any study of God's word a word study is useful, a knowledge of grammar is useful, and context is essential. Not just the specific context, but the general context of the entire Bible which can only be developed over time through the grace of God and his Spirit.

Without God's Holy Spirit there can be no true understanding of the scriptures as 1 Corinthians 2 makes very clear.

I don't think this is necessarily the place to discuss my views as God has opened my mind to see, but I would love to hear what has fully convinced others of the essential nature of the Holy Spirit as God and thus forming the Trinity. Many scriptures reveal clearly that Christ is, was, and always will be God though for a short time he was made flesh.

I look forward to the discussion.

 

[kyredneck]

Well, there's definitely a connection between the three :

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Jn 4

45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Cor 15

 

[Charles Perkins]

Well, there's definitely a connection between the three :

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Jn 4

45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Cor 15

John 4:24 God is spirit. and those that the Father has brought to him John 6:44 must worship God in spirit
So the crux of this is what is meant by worshipping God in spirit and truth. I'm not finding that nature defined here.
God is clearly defined as spirit. This act of worship in spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45 The first Adam was given the breath of life and the second Adam became a quickening or life-giving spirit. The nature of the Spirit it is not fully explained. The breath of life that the first Adam was given by the spirit. There are scripture referring to a human spirit that gives life.

These scriptures just don't make it clear one way or the other for me yet. I believe God will reveal the nature of his Spirit clearly and that it is the Spirit that reveals these things.

 

[kyredneck]

So the crux of this is what is meant by worshipping God in spirit and truth. I'm not finding that nature defined here.

Wish I could share the experience of an Old Baptist communion service, feet washing and all, with you.

the second Adam became a quickening or life-giving spirit

Became?:

8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever. Heb 13

YLT:
45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,` the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit,

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't want to derail a conversation on suffering, so I'm bringing this discussion to another post.

I referred to John 3:34. For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Here are some other scriptures to consider:

2 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of your spirit be upon me.

Number 11:25 Moses and the 70

To answer your question now. I have not been persuaded as of yet either way in regards to the nature of the Spirit. I trust God to guide me, but to say at this point I believed that the Holy Spirit was God would be dishonest. Neither do I disbelieve in the possibility.

I'm quoting scripture as to the nature of the Spirit, because I know it to be the final authority on all things spiritual.
There a great many things said on this topic in God's word. Many things are clear, some things less clear to me.

Feel free to enlighten me on the nature of the Holy Spirit.

Peter and Paul both called Him God, do you?

 

[kyredneck]

Peter and Paul both called Him God, do you?

<sigh> ....and the asinine interrogations begin. Seen it rite off....

 

[AustinC]

John 4:24 God is spirit. and those that the Father has brought to him John 6:44 must worship God in spirit
So the crux of this is what is meant by worshipping God in spirit and truth. I'm not finding that nature defined here.
God is clearly defined as spirit. This act of worship in spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45 The first Adam was given the breath of life and the second Adam became a quickening or life-giving spirit. The nature of the Spirit it is not fully explained. The breath of life that the first Adam was given by the spirit. There are scripture referring to a human spirit that gives life.

These scriptures just don't make it clear one way or the other for me yet. I believe God will reveal the nature of his Spirit clearly and that it is the Spirit that reveals these things.

Indeed, this thread is regarding suffering. Thank you for clarifying. Your word usage indicated you do not view Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit as God. I will leave it at that.

 

[tyndale1946]

<sigh> ....and the asinine interrogations begin. Seen it rite off....

I just finished The Holy Spirit by John Owen and it was quite in depth and a great study and resource book but I also like Arthur Pink and soon as I take care of my other irons in the fire so to speak am going to read his work on The Holy Spirit... I left this link to the book if anyone wants to read it and I do trust the writings of Pink having read and studied his writings many times in the past and his works are full of spiritual biblical truths as I'm sure my friend and yoke fellow in the faith Kentucky can agree, him being a pinkofile like me and I'm just diving into the three volume book Exposition Of The Gospel Of John by Pink... Take heart I will be posting some of his thoughts in the future... I will probably be reading and studying back to back Pink... The Holy Spirit and Exposition Of The Gospel Of John together!... Hey I have plenty of time and they won't let me go anywhere... Enjoy the link Charles and the rest of you too... Brother Glen

The Holy Spirit

 

[Yeshua1]

Indeed, this thread is regarding suffering. Thank you for clarifying. Your word usage indicated you do not view Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit as God. I will leave it at that.

if any do not see both of them as God, there are in heresy!

 

[kyredneck]

I don't want to derail a conversation on suffering, so I'm bringing this discussion to another post.

Is it true that @Barry Johnson is also @Charles Perkins?

 

[Sai]

Indeed, this thread is regarding suffering. Thank you for clarifying. Your word usage indicated you do not view Jesus, nor the Holy Spirit as God. I will leave it at that.

Thanks for bringing that out. I wasn’t sure as to why he couldn’t understand that forgiveness is the epitome of suffering. I will place the man on ignore as the law of Christ requires.

Let me know if he gets saved and I’ll restore him.

 

[tyndale1946]

Is it true that @Barry Johnson is also @Charles Perkins?

I don't know Kentucky but let me check it out... Won't be the first time!... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

I don't know Kentucky but let me check it out... Won't be the first time!... Brother Glen

While you're at it:

I would not be surprised if Barry and MB are the same person.

 

[tyndale1946]

While you're at it:

Kentucky we's ALL connected... I got some REDNECK in me too!... Ok you brethren, unmask and reveal yourselves... You know Kentucky we goona be waiting a loooooooooooooooooong time!

 

[kyredneck]

I will place the man on ignore as the law of Christ requires.

Let me know if he gets saved and I’ll restore him.

...man, there is just something totally backwards, not Christ like, about this...

 

[tyndale1946]

Ok let's get back to the study of The Holy Spirit... This is what I belief and if you believe different than I do, that is OK, we are all here to learn... And you may tell me something I've never considered and I also may convey something you didn't know but I'm not so set in my ways I can't change my mind and may if something better takes its place... But know this I will not waver one iota that Salvation is 100% Jesus Christ alone within the co-operation of the persons of three and one Godhead and without that connection Salvation is IMPOSSIBLE!... Each one in the Godhead has a reason and a purpose to save you and you alone, you want to rob the Holy Spirit of HIS work?... Some tell me that the Holy Spirit didn't show up until after Jesus died?... Then explain to me how the prophecy was spoken by Holy men of God according to Peter?... These Old Testament born again saints, could not speak the prophecies of God unless, the Holy Ghost/Holy Spirit changed them, until that happens they are unregenerate men!

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

That is enough for now but how important is the study of the Holy Spirit?... The following is from The Holy Spirit by Arthur Pink!

Thomas Goodwin commenced his massive work on The Work of the Holy Spirit in Our Salvation (1660) by affirming, "There is a general omission in the saints of God, in their not giving the Holy Spirit that glory that is due to His Person and for His great work of salvation in us, insomuch that we have in our hearts almost forgotten this Third Person." If that could be said in the midst of the balmy days of the Puritans, what language would be required to set forth the awful spiritual ignorance and impotency of this benighted 21st century!... Brother Glen

Btw... Here is a link to Thomas Goodwin and I especially like the whole title!

https://www.monergism.com/thethresh...k of the Holy Ghost in o - Thomas Goodwin.pdf

 

[Sai]

...man, there is just something totally backwards, not Christ like, about this...

Only if the cultists are openly seeking more truth are we allowed to go back and forth with them. If they for example show up at your door we are commanded not to let them inside. Not an option, commanded.

 

[Yeshua1]

...man, there is just something totally backwards, not Christ like, about this.
IF someone denies jesus and the Spirit are God, what does Apostle John say to us how to treat them?

 

[tyndale1946]

Only if the cultists are openly seeking more truth are we allowed to go back and forth with them. If they for example show up at your door we are commanded not to let them inside. Not an option, commanded.

Let me tell you a personal story before you go accusing my brother and fellow yoke man in the faith... Many years ago when I was a young man, I was with my Dad who was an Old Line Sovereign Grace Baptist just like I am now, working on his car in the driveway... He and I both had our heads under the hood and I was watching... Soon we heard someone clear his throat and say, Excuse me sir can we talk?... Dad and I both looked up and there were two young men dressed in Mormon attire and we could see that had two bicycles... Dad looked at the one who spoke, who seemed to be the spokesman of the group and said: what can I help you with young man... The one Dad spoke to said: Sir if you died today, where would be your final destination?... Dad said well Son I won't give you an answer but if you answer my question I will... Now my Dad knew his Bible, he was a Deacon of the church and the church clerk and he had been in the church quite a while... To this day I do not know the question he asked but I know the reaction he got, and the spokesman hem, stuttered and tripped all over himself and finally in exasperation said Sir I'm afraid I don't have the knowledge to answer the question and I will have to go back and get an Elder to come back an answer the question you asked to give you an answer... My Dad said then run along and bring him back here and I will ask him the same question... When they left I turned to Dad and said: So when are they coming back?... He said they are not coming back and they never did or the Elder either... Brother Glen

And long before that incident when I was knee high to a grasshopper there was Kingdom Hall, that's another story that Dad in his lifetime (he is now with the Lord) would soon forget... I'll tell it someday!