SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
This is The Holy Spirit as Creator, which is ONLY that God Almighty can do!
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The Nature of the Spirit Questions
- Thread starter Charles Perkins
- Start date
Job 33:4, "The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life."
This is The Holy Spirit as Creator, which is ONLY that God Almighty can do!
37818
Well-Known Member
Some things a JW deny. They deny the Word is God, John 1:1. They that the Holy Spirit is a person, John 16:7-8. Among other truths. John 3:3.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
And the distinction of Persons in the Holy Trinity
Acts 5:3-4
Psalm 104:29-30
Many times the Hebrew OT Prophets spoke of the Spirit as all knowing, all powerful, as God Himself with them!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
In 2 Samuel the Hebrew grammar is very interesting as the Holy Spirit is called Yahweh directly
What is interesting is that in history even some Jews have acknowledged that the Spirit and Angel of the Lord appeared to be like unto Yahweh!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Sadly some of the orthodox early church fathers believed that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are identical Persons
They were into oneness? maybe due to Paul calling Spirit the spirit of Jesus Christ?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
they were confused, as is Charles here
Very good! Thanks Yesh! Lol...
Charles Perkins
Active Member
Without God's Spirit there is no spiritual understanding. The understanding that I have is all from his Spirit. Does this mean that a true Christian doesn't have questions? Of course not in fact one of the primary ways that I approach my Bible studies is with questions never assuming that I understand it all. God generally provides clear answers that usually become clear in the general and specific context. I'm always amazed at how there is always something new to learn in the scriptures regardless of how many times that I have read them.
Does God work with each of us the same? I think not. God has made clear many things over the years, it is one of the the ways that I can know that God is with me.
This question has not been important to me until recently. Do I expect a direct revelation from God himself? No. Nor do I wish to lie to the Spirit and claim knowledge that hasn't been given to me yet.
I've been preparing for an extensive study of the Spirit now for a couple of months. There are many questions that I review in the process and usually there are more that develop along the way. Part of my study will be some word studies and an examination of the grammar of the original languages.
Thanks for expressing your thoughts on this matter.
As regards faith, God knows the faith each of us has. I've come to know that I do have faith. Seeing God work in one's life and the lives of others around is one of the greatest proofs or evidence that God's unseen hands are at work. This was a serious question that I faced 10 years ago. For years proceeding that time I only thought I had faith. When a serious trial came, I found that I was lacking initially. In time though (a couple of years) God gifted me with real faith.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Charles,
You honestly do not believe that the Holy Spirit is God?
OK, I can relate to that...
as I did not always know, especially when I was a much younger believer, that God is a Spirit.
How about this?
" For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." ( 1 John 5:4-12 ).
Dave G
Well-Known Member
@Charles Perkins :
Here's what I see when I read the passage...
4) Whatosever is born of God ( believers ), overcomes the world. It is our faith that does the overcoming.
5) The question is asked, "who is he that overcomes the world?", but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6) This is He that came by water and blood...Jesus Christ. Not by water only, but by both water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Putting a few pieces together, I see that Jesus also said that He is the way, the truth and the life ( John 14:6 ).
So if the Spirit is truth, and the Son is truth, then they are both together, the truth.
7) There are three that bear record in Heaven...the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost...these three, are One.
One in spirit, one in mind, one in agreement.
8) There are three that bear witness in earth...the Spirit, the water and the blood, and these three agree in one.
9) If we ( believers ) receive the witness ( words ) of men, then the witness ( word ) of God is greater..for this ( what follows in verse 10 ) is the witness of God which He has testified of ( from or by ) His Son:
10) He that believes that Jesus is the Son of God, has the Witness ( Holy Spirit ) in himself...he that does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he does not believe the record ( Scriptures ) that God gave "of ( by or from ) His Son.
11) This is the "record" ( truth by both His Son, verbally, and Scripturally ), that God has given to the believer eternal life, and this life is "in" His Son.
12) He that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life.
The Father is God, the Son / Word ( see John 1 and many other passages, some where Jesus declares that, "before Abraham was, I AM ) is God. and the Spirit is God.
I hope that helps, my friend.
Here's what I see when I read the passage...
4) Whatosever is born of God ( believers ), overcomes the world. It is our faith that does the overcoming.
5) The question is asked, "who is he that overcomes the world?", but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6) This is He that came by water and blood...Jesus Christ. Not by water only, but by both water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Putting a few pieces together, I see that Jesus also said that He is the way, the truth and the life ( John 14:6 ).
So if the Spirit is truth, and the Son is truth, then they are both together, the truth.
7) There are three that bear record in Heaven...the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost...these three, are One.
One in spirit, one in mind, one in agreement.
8) There are three that bear witness in earth...the Spirit, the water and the blood, and these three agree in one.
9) If we ( believers ) receive the witness ( words ) of men, then the witness ( word ) of God is greater..for this ( what follows in verse 10 ) is the witness of God which He has testified of ( from or by ) His Son:
10) He that believes that Jesus is the Son of God, has the Witness ( Holy Spirit ) in himself...he that does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he does not believe the record ( Scriptures ) that God gave "of ( by or from ) His Son.
11) This is the "record" ( truth by both His Son, verbally, and Scripturally ), that God has given to the believer eternal life, and this life is "in" His Son.
12) He that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son, does not have life.
The Father is God, the Son / Word ( see John 1 and many other passages, some where Jesus declares that, "before Abraham was, I AM ) is God. and the Spirit is God.
I hope that helps, my friend.
Have you tested the spirits to know for certain that the understanding is from God?
1 Kings 22:19-23
And Micaiah said, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing beside him on his right hand and on his left; and the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets; the Lord has declared disaster for you.”
Charles Perkins
Active Member
Thanks, Yes I still have questions about the Holy Spirit, I'm leaning towards him being God. Is God spirit, this is very clear to me that yes God is spirit. There are many scriptures that make this clear through out God's word.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
But the question is, is the Holy Spirit actually God?
I would think that a deep study of the Scriptures regarding the Person and work of the Spirit, would convince you.
But I also admit that it came to me over time, and wasn't something that really occurred to me until one day I just began to seen Him as God...
and that His work in believers and throughout this physical world that we live in,
was and is the result of Him moving as God the Father sees fit and as a part of His will.
Here I'd like to make as illustration of why I see the Spirit as God, and not an "impersonal force" that operates as an extension of God's will:
" I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you." ( John 16:12-15 ).
Here I see the significance that God's Spirit is "He"...
Not an impersonal force, but truly a part of the "Godhead" ( see Romans 1:20 ).
Follow the pronouns, Charles...
The Spirit is referred to as "He", not "it"...at least here.
Charles Perkins
Active Member
I try the spirits regularly to verify that they are of God. It's important though to read the entire book though to understand all of the tests.
Have you read the entire Bible?
Charles Perkins
Active Member
I've read the Bible more than a dozen times from cover to cover. I spend a great deal of time in the Bible.
Without reading the entire Bible one cannot have any sense of the general context of it. The Bible reveals a great deal about the nature of the spirit through out it's pages.
I didn't grow up in a church that taught the trinity, so it is not an old friend that is comfortable. I've learned to challenge all of my former opinions and ask questions. God is the greatest teacher of all time and he knows the best way to work with each of us. In the the process God has strengthened me in the things I do know. Humility is good as well, I've been humbled many times in my life and probably will be many more.
It is God who tells us to "prove all things" 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and to "study to show yourself approved" 2 Timothy 2:15.
The spirit is discussed in many ways throughout the Bible. It is the scriptures that is the source of any real understanding of anything spiritual and the nature of the Spirit is very much a spiritual topic.
I'm sure you have many yet unsaid questions or comments on my relationship with God. What is important is to be right with God. I know with certainty that God has called me, I know because it is God that gives understanding and God has taught me so much over the last ten plus years especially. I know that I have God's Spirit because I have tried the Spirit. I also know that I have faith because God has given me proof of it and continues to do so.
This Thread was in answer to a question about the Spirit. I've asked about the scriptures that have convinced others and received a few.