The Nature of the Spirit Questions

[Dave G]

@Charles Perkins :

More to consider ( and this passage was already referenced by @37818 farther above )...

" Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew [it] unto you." ( John 16:7-14 ).

As before, follow the pronouns.
The Lord Jesus describes the Spirit of truth as "He".



Again, may God bless you richly in your studies.

 

[Dave G]

I've read the Bible more than a dozen times from cover to cover. I spend a great deal of time in the Bible.

As have I, my friend.
To me, God's word is the most important and marvelous book that I've ever read.

Given that it is composed of letters that He has preserved through the ages, countless disasters and the ravages of time and that He has made it available to me and other like me because of His love for us, I count it a personal privilege to open it and to study from it.
Each time I do, something is made clearer to me than it was the time before.

I thank Him and praise Him for showing me much over the past 17 years since I really began to pick it up and seriously obey His commands in 1 Peter 2:2 and 2 Timothy 2:15.

 

[Charles Perkins]

@Charles Perkins :

More to consider ( and this passage was already referenced by @37818 farther above )...

John 16:7-14

As before, follow the pronouns.
The Lord Jesus describes the Spirit of truth as "He".

May God bless you richly in your studies.

Thanks Dave. I also consider grammar, many languages are more careful than modern English when it comes to case. An inanimate object can be masculine, feminine or neuter which is unlike modern English. Greek grammar is far easier than Hebrew though IMHO.

For those who might think otherwise, I also request God's guidance and inspiration. With God by my side I know that understanding will come. God is ever faithful and it is certainly his will that we grow in our understanding and walk with that understanding. Perhaps God has allowed this circumstance because others may have similar questions that they fear to mention. I don't know, but God does.

May all be blessed in their studies and come to know God for the great and loving God that he is.

 

[AustinC]

I've read the Bible more than a dozen times from cover to cover. I spend a great deal of time in the Bible.

Without reading the entire Bible one cannot have any sense of the general context of it. The Bible reveals a great deal about the nature of the spirit through out it's pages.

I didn't grow up in a church that taught the trinity, so it is not an old friend that is comfortable. I've learned to challenge all of my former opinions and ask questions. God is the greatest teacher of all time and he knows the best way to work with each of us. In the the process God has strengthened me in the things I do know. Humility is good as well, I've been humbled many times in my life and probably will be many more.

It is God who tells us to "prove all things" 1 Thessalonians 5:21 and to "study to show yourself approved" 2 Timothy 2:15.

The spirit is discussed in many ways throughout the Bible. It is the scriptures that is the source of any real understanding of anything spiritual and the nature of the Spirit is very much a spiritual topic.

I'm sure you have many yet unsaid questions or comments on my relationship with God. What is important is to be right with God. I know with certainty that God has called me, I know because it is God that gives understanding and God has taught me so much over the last ten plus years especially. I know that I have God's Spirit because I have tried the Spirit. I also know that I have faith because God has given me proof of it and continues to do so.

This Thread was in answer to a question about the Spirit. I've asked about the scriptures that have convinced others and received a few.

Great. So in reading the Bible you should see very clearly that the Holy Spirit is God. Why then do you state that you do not know?

 

[Charles Perkins]

Great. So in reading the Bible you should see very clearly that the Holy Spirit is God. Why then do you state that you do not know?

It is God through his Holy Spirit that reveals all things spiritual. Why God has not made these clear to me yet, I don't know. I have prayed about it and so I know that matter will become clear. A great many things are very clear.

How and when God answers prayer is not up to me. I will put my trust in God because I know that he is faithful. I've proven beyond any shadow of doubt that God has given me faith, that God hears my prayers and of course the prayers of a great many others, and does answer, Under rare circumstances is that answer no, if we truly are near to God.

I know of only four circumstances when God says no, there are those God doesn't hear because their sins separate them from God, there are those that doubt, there may be need of a thorn in one's flesh (2 Corinthians 12:7) or we ask amiss to add it out of lust (James 4:1-5).

 

[AustinC]

It is God through his Holy Spirit that reveals all things spiritual. Why God has not made these clear to me yet, I don't know. I have prayed about it and so I know that matter will become clear. A great many things are very clear.

How and when God answers prayer is not up to me. I will put my trust in God because I know that he is faithful. I've proven beyond any shadow of doubt that God has given me faith, that God hears my prayers and of course the prayers of a great many others, and does answer, Under rare circumstances is that answer no, if we truly are near to God.

I know of only four circumstances when God says no, there are those God doesn't hear because their sins separate them from God, there are those that doubt, there may be need of a thorn in one's flesh (2 Corinthians 12:7) or we ask amiss to add it out of lust (James 4:1-5).

They are clear, yet you push against them. Don't blame God for your unwillingness to take Him at His word.

 

[Charles Perkins]

They are clear, yet you push against them. Don't blame God for your unwillingness to take Him at His word.

They were apparently quite clear for you, this I understand.

I also know that they will become clear to me. The rest God will also make clear because God knows my heart, mind, thoughts and imaginations far better than any man can. With God nothing is impossible (Luke 1:37) and all things do work together for good for them that love God and have been called according to God's purpose (Romans 8:28).

 

[AustinC]

They were apparently quite clear for you, this I understand.

I also know that they will become clear to me. The rest God will also make clear because God knows my heart, mind, thoughts and imaginations far better than any man can. With God nothing is impossible (Luke 1:37) and all things do work together for good for them that love God and have been called according to God's purpose (Romans 8:28).

Interesting Bible quotes. Do you think they are quoted in context of what the author, God, intended?

 

[Charles Perkins]

Interesting Bible quotes. Do you think they are quoted in context of what the author, God, intended?

On topic, This thread stated up front that I had questions regarding the nature of the Spirit. I then asked for scriptures that have given others clarity regarding the Spirit.

We can discuss these two scriptures more fully in context if you like in another thread. Which would make a great topic.

I'm not here to judge another's character or beliefs. Do you believe sincerely that because I have questions regarding the Spirit that I should question my faith, character, and relationship with God? This is a position I don't understand.

Does not God know our minds, hearts, thoughts and imaginations? Do you know my heart and mind better than me, perhaps you do? Regardless I know that God does. If I need to learn humility, God will lead me there I'm sure. If, I haven't subjected myself to God, I know too that God will lead me there. If I lack understanding all together even this I know God will reveal. I know in my heart

God's promises of help, guidance, shelter, protection, deliverance, etc. are sure if God is with us. None of God's promises though state how or when. Faith is also required which is another subject altogether.

 

[Charles Perkins]

Thanks all for sharing your thoughts on this topic. A special thanks to Dave for the loving manner he has approached this topic. Perhaps this will be a help for others on this subject as well.

 

[AustinC]

On topic, This thread stated up front that I had questions regarding the nature of the Spirit. I then asked for scriptures that have given others clarity regarding the Spirit.

We can discuss these two scriptures more fully in context if you like in another thread. Which would make a great topic.

I'm not here to judge another's character or beliefs. Do you believe sincerely that because I have questions regarding the Spirit that I should question my faith, character, and relationship with God? This is a position I don't understand.

Does not God know our minds, hearts, thoughts and imaginations? Do you know my heart and mind better than me, perhaps you do? Regardless I know that God does. If I need to learn humility, God will lead me there I'm sure. If, I haven't subjected myself to God, I know too that God will lead me there. If I lack understanding all together even this I know God will reveal. I know in my heart

God's promises of help, guidance, shelter, protection, deliverance, etc. are sure if God is with us. None of God's promises though state how or when. Faith is also required which is another subject altogether.

Charles, multiple people have addressed your concerns and shown you what God reveals about Himself in God the Holy Spirit. At this point it seems you are looking for ways to deny what they have shared. You have, by your own declaration, read the entire Bible, multiple times, therefore you should know what God has declared. What causes you to stumble?

 

[Charles Perkins]

Charles, multiple people have addressed your concerns and shown you what God reveals about Himself in God the Holy Spirit. At this point it seems you are looking for ways to deny what they have shared. You have, by your own declaration, read the entire Bible, multiple times, therefore you should know what God has declared. What causes you to stumble?

I believe that I have been respectful. I have to wonder though at the attack, is this really the way Christ would handle this if he was here.

 

[AustinC]

I believe that I have been respectful. I have to wonder though at the attack, is this really the way Christ would handle this if he was here.

I am being respectful. I am asking you "what more do you demand of God before you will believe that the Holy Spirit is God?"

That is not an attack. I am not responsible for your insecurity in a thread discussion. You will need to figure out what you can emotionally handle. I am not offended if you put me on ignore for your own psychological health.

 

[Charles Perkins]

I am being respectful. I am asking you "what more do you demand of God before you will believe that the Holy Spirit is God?"

That is not an attack. I am not responsible for your insecurity in a thread discussion. You will need to figure out what you can emotionally handle. I am not offended if you put me on ignore for your own psychological health.

Are you saying then that if God hasn't worked in me the same as he has in you, then clearly there is something wrong? I personally know that God's Spirit is in me. There are ways to be certain of this some are mentioned in 1 John under trying the spirits and other ways throughout God's word.

What I hear you saying is that I'm ignoring the Spirit in me and intentionally am not allowing it to reveal the truth as you see it. This is an assumption based on little knowledge of myself and how God works with individuals. Do you not believe that God will discipline me as a loving Father, if I need such discipline? God's approach is always loving which in deed can be hard love.

I ask then what is the source of any spiritual understanding that man can have? Is not that source God through his Spirit? If you believe otherwise let me know. I don't presume to know anything about you. I act on what God has revealed and God gives the spiritual tools, gifts to make use of it in my life. I have many weaknesses which I will not share, but lying to the Spirit and to the Father is foolish in the extreme. God knows every thought and imagination, nothing can be hid.

I trust in the Spirit God the Father has given me, that I have questions yet about it's nature doesn't change my relationship with God. You though are free to believe as you believe. We all answer to God in the end. Thankfully God reserves judgment until his work is complete, having far greater knowledge of each of us.

 

[AustinC]

Are you saying then that if God hasn't worked in me the same as he has in you, then clearly there is something wrong? I personally know that God's Spirit is in me. There are ways to be certain of this some are mentioned in 1 John under trying the spirits and other ways throughout God's word.

What I hear you saying is that I'm ignoring the Spirit in me and intentionally am not allowing it to reveal the truth as you see it. This is an assumption based on little knowledge of myself and how God works with individuals. Do you not believe that God will discipline me as a loving Father, if I need such discipline? God's approach is always loving which in deed can be hard love.

I ask then what is the source of any spiritual understanding that man can have? Is not that source God through his Spirit? If you believe otherwise let me know. I don't presume to know anything about you. I act on what God has revealed and God gives the spiritual tools, gifts to make use of it in my life. I have many weaknesses which I will not share, but lying to the Spirit and to the Father is foolish in the extreme. God knows every thought and imagination, nothing can be hid.

I trust in the Spirit God the Father has given me, that I have questions yet about it's nature doesn't change my relationship with God. You though are free to believe as you believe. We all answer to God in the end. Thankfully God reserves judgment until his work is complete, having far greater knowledge of each of us.

I am saying that the evidence provided to you is significant, yet you will not believe the evidence. You cannot claim you don't have the data. You have the data, yet you resist believing. This is all on you. Own your responsibility in this matter.

 

[Charles Perkins]

I am saying that the evidence provided to you is significant, yet you will not believe the evidence. You cannot claim you don't have the data. You have the data, yet you resist believing. This is all on you. Own your responsibility in this matter.

Here are a few more scriptures then to consider:
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of (H7307 HC/cbsc) God (H430 HNcmpa)moved upon
the face of the waters.

The Spirit of God is a possessive noun construct chain showing that the Spirit identified here is possessed of God.
This Spirit identified here is moving over the face of the waters.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit (H7307 HNcbsc/Sp1cs) shall not always (5769 Ncmsa) strive with man,
for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred
and twenty years.

"My spirit" is clearly God's Spirit and that Spirit is part of a descriptive noun construct chain "My spirit shall not always strive" This is God's Spirit as it refers back to what the Lord is saying. This spirit is described as striving.

There are many scriptures in the Old and New Testament speaking of the Spirit of God. There are a number of occurrences of My spirit referring to God as well.

The entire Bible is God's word. I would be far more comfortable knowing that my understanding is of God and not of men alone and that it is based soundly on God's word as God through his Spirit leads each of us to understand.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is God through his Holy Spirit that reveals all things spiritual. Why God has not made these clear to me yet, I don't know. I have prayed about it and so I know that matter will become clear. A great many things are very clear.

How and when God answers prayer is not up to me. I will put my trust in God because I know that he is faithful. I've proven beyond any shadow of doubt that God has given me faith, that God hears my prayers and of course the prayers of a great many others, and does answer, Under rare circumstances is that answer no, if we truly are near to God.

I know of only four circumstances when God says no, there are those God doesn't hear because their sins separate them from God, there are those that doubt, there may be need of a thorn in one's flesh (2 Corinthians 12:7) or we ask amiss to add it out of lust (James 4:1-5).

Did peter call the Holy Spirit God in Acts?

 

[AustinC]

Here are a few more scriptures then to consider:
Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was
upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of (H7307 HC/cbsc) God (H430 HNcmpa)moved upon
the face of the waters.

The Spirit of God is a possessive noun construct chain showing that the Spirit identified here is possessed of God.
This Spirit identified here is moving over the face of the waters.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit (H7307 HNcbsc/Sp1cs) shall not always (5769 Ncmsa) strive with man,
for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred
and twenty years.

"My spirit" is clearly God's Spirit and that Spirit is part of a descriptive noun construct chain "My spirit shall not always strive" This is God's Spirit as it refers back to what the Lord is saying. This spirit is described as striving.

There are many scriptures in the Old and New Testament speaking of the Spirit of God. There are a number of occurrences of My spirit referring to God as well.

The entire Bible is God's word. I would be far more comfortable knowing that my understanding is of God and not of men alone and that it is based soundly on God's word as God through his Spirit leads each of us to understand.

What you share points to God the Holy Spirit. It seems silly to me to doubt God is Spirit.

 

[Charles Perkins]

Did peter call the Holy Spirit God in Acts?

The answer is not necessarily, is this the same as the Spirit of God, if so when lying to the Spirit you lie to God also because it is his Spirit.

 

[Charles Perkins]

What you share points to God the Holy Spirit. It seems silly to me to doubt God is Spirit.

I'm sorry you feel that way.