• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The New Testament Begins in Acts Not Matthew

Dave...

Active Member

The New Testament Begins in Acts Not Matthew​

When you read the Gospels in the Bible, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, do they sometimes seem to contradict other parts of the New Testament Scripture? For example, in Matthew 6:15, Jesus said, “If you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.” Yet, in Colossians 2:13, the Apostle Paul wrote, “…God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins.” How can there be two different perspectives written in the same New Testament?

Many Christians experience confusion because they think all of Jesus’ teachings are part of the New Testament, also known as the “New Covenant.” However most of them are not. The New Testament, which is God’s New Covenant with mankind, actually starts in the book of Acts, not Matthew. How do we know this fact is true?

When reading the New Testament, ask yourself this question, “Had Jesus died yet when this was written?” If not, then those writings are part of the Old Covenant in most cases. If the writings are after Jesus died, then it’s part of the New Covenant.

When Jesus came to earth, He came directly to the Jews who were still under the Old Covenant with God. Want the gist of the Old Covenant? Deuteronomy 28 spells it out very clearly. If Israel obeyed God’s laws, there were 12 verses of blessings He would give them (see Deuteronomy 28:1-14). But, if Israel disobeyed God’s laws, there were 52 verses of curses He would give them. (see Deuteronomy 28:15-68).

Would you want to live in that kind of tension-filled relationship with God? No way! Unfortunately, many Christians today believe that is still how God treats them, even though we are under the New Covenant of grace. Therefore, Christianity feels more like a burden, instead of a blessing.

Many of the things that Jesus taught in the Gospels was Old Covenant instruction to the Jews of His day. When He taught them, He was raising the bar of how perfect they needed to be accepted and blessed by God. Here are some examples:
  • “Unless you are more righteous than the strictest religious leaders in Jesus’s day, the Scribes and the Pharisees, you will not go to heaven.” (Matthew 5:20)
  • “Calling someone an idiot or crazy because you are angry with them will send you to hell.” (Matthew 5:22)
  • “Lust is adultery.” (Matthew 5:27-28)
  • “You must live a perfect life exactly the way God does.” (Matthew 5:48)
These performance-based teachings were aimed to show the Jews and anyone who reads the Bible today that it’s impossible to get God’s unconditional acceptance by obeying the law. Jesus was preparing people to understand how much they needed Him to be their Savior.

God was about to bring into existence the New Covenant, and Jesus was preparing them and everyone else for it. But, here’s the key. The New Covenant did not begin until Jesus’ death, burial, resurrection, and ascension were complete. For instance, Hebrews 9:15 says:

“For this reason Christ is the mediator of a New Covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the Old Covenant.”

Remember Jesus’ teachings we just listed from the book of Matthew? Let’s compare what the New Covenant says about you as a Christ follower:
  • God has already forgiven you whether you forgive or not. (Colossians 2:13)
  • God made you perfect in your identity in Christ. (Hebrews 10:14)
  • God made you a holy person and not a lustful person in Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:2)
  • God made you a patient person because you’re complete in Christ. (Colossians 2:10)
The Old Covenant was conditional based on mankind’s imperfect works. The New Covenant is conditional based on faith in Jesus’ perfect work. Do you see the amazing difference?

Read the New Testament with a lot more clarity now that you know the New Testament starts in Acts, rather than Matthew!


Got it, Get it, Good.
 

Dave...

Active Member

When did the New Covenant begin?​


Quick Answer: When did the New Covenant begin? The New Covenant began at the death of Christ (Luke 22:20; Hebrews 9:16). This means Jesus lived and ministered under the Old Covenant (Galatians 4:4). This is why some of Jesus’ teachings expose the true spirit of the Old Testament law.

Diving Deeper: Once we have finished reading the Old Testament, we come to the New Testament which starts in Matthew 1. But did you know that the New Testament era, or new covenant, does not really begin in Matthew 1? That’s right. It’s not baby Jesus in a manger that brings in God’s new way of grace. The new covenant didn’t begin until 33 years later at the death of Christ (Luke 22:20; Hebrews 9:16).

Note that the words “testament”, “covenant”, and “will” are all the same Greek word diathéké. This is important because it’s a death, not a birth, that is required to activate a will or testament. Therefore, the New Testament era (also known as the new covenant) actually begins at the death of Christ, not at His birth. Hebrews 9:16-17 says: In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.”

A will does not go into effect until the death of the one who made it. Likewise, the new covenant did not go into force until Jesus died. In fact, even the old covenant did not go into effect without blood: “Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words” (Exodus 24:8). For this same reason, at the Last Supper, Jesus told His disciples the new covenant would be coming through His blood (not His birth): “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you” (Luke 22:20b).

This means that Jesus’ entire earthly ministry was under the Old Covenant (Galatians 4:4). Jesus was born under the Law, and we draw the dividing line of human history at the cross, not at the manger: “But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law” (Galatians 4:4-5). Both Jesus and His audience lived during the old covenant Law. This is why we see so many harsh teachings from Jesus in which impossible standards are taught – cut off your hand, pluck out your eye, be perfect like God (see the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5-7 for examples).

Have you ever wondered why Jesus taught that forgiveness was conditioned upon forgiving others first (Matthew 6:12-15)? Or why Jesus said we must be perfect like God (Matthew 5:48)? This was Jesus teaching the perfect standard of the Law so his hearers would see their need for God’s grace instead (Galatians 3:19-23). So, when you’re reading the Bible and come across verses in the four Gospels that seem to make rightness with God difficult or burdensome, remember that Jesus was showing the proud Jews of His day the impossibility of Law-based living and the fallacy of self righteousness.

This does not mean that all of Jesus’ teachings before the cross were only relevant to those living under the old covenant. Jesus knew the new covenant was imminent, and the goal of His teachings was twofold: (1) to show people the futility of trying to keep the Law and (2) to prepare them for a new way of grace. These are the two main messages we see in the teachings of Christ.

When we realize the cross is the dividing line between the old covenant and the new covenant, the impossible law-based teachings of Jesus finally make sense. And the message of God’s grace found in the Gospel becomes clearer than ever!

 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I do not see the gospels contradicting the epistles at all.

Take the first example for instance: Jesus said that if we do not forgive we will not be forgiven. This is echoed in Ephesians 5 where Paul writes that we are to forgive. Colossians 2:13 speaks of that transformation from death ti life. What the OP is missing is repentance and the fact this is a transformation (man cannot serve two masters).

Once we have been forgiven, there remains a need for forgiveness as we live out our Chrisyian lives. Christ is our Mediator, our High Priest, and He makes intercession for us.

The New Testament begins with the Gospels because it is the New Covenant. The epistles are important as they deal with how the church is to live (they were letters written to churches). The Book of Acts is a continuation of the Gospel accounts and show us how the churches began and what they did.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
Many Christians experience confusion because they think all of Jesus’ teachings are part of the New Testament, also known as the “New Covenant.” However most of them are not. The New Testament, which is God’s New Covenant with mankind, actually starts in the book of Acts, not Matthew.
Respectfully, I disagree.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
When Jesus came to earth, He came directly to the Jews who were still under the Old Covenant with God. Want the gist of the Old Covenant? Deuteronomy 28 spells it out very clearly. If Israel obeyed God’s laws, there were 12 verses of blessings He would give them (see Deuteronomy 28:1-14). But, if Israel disobeyed God’s laws, there were 52 verses of curses He would give them. (see Deuteronomy 28:15-68).

Would you want to live in that kind of tension-filled relationship with God? No way! Unfortunately, many Christians today believe that is still how God treats them, even though we are under the New Covenant of grace. Therefore, Christianity feels more like a burden, instead of a blessing.
I agree.
Many of the things that Jesus taught in the Gospels was Old Covenant instruction to the Jews of His day. When He taught them, He was raising the bar of how perfect they needed to be accepted and blessed by God.
Again, I agree.
These performance-based teachings were aimed to show the Jews and anyone who reads the Bible today that it’s impossible to get God’s unconditional acceptance by obeying the law.
Some things He taught were performance-based to show His elect just how rigorous the Law was, and why they genuinely needed Him to save them.
Some of them He was aiming directly at the Jews under the Law in order to show them how "far" the Law really extended;
All the way to the heart.
God was about to bring into existence the New Covenant, and Jesus was preparing them and everyone else for it.
Not everyone, Dave.
The sobering fact is, there are people who will seek to enter in and shall not be able ( Luke 13:24 ), and there will be many to whom the Lord Jesus will say, at the Judgement, "I never knew you" ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

The new covenant was and is only intended for all of God's elect.
 
Last edited:

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Remember Jesus’ teachings we just listed from the book of Matthew? Let’s compare what the New Covenant says about you as a Christ follower:
  • God has already forgiven you whether you forgive or not. (Colossians 2:13)
  • God made you perfect in your identity in Christ. (Hebrews 10:14)
  • God made you a holy person and not a lustful person in Christ. (1 Corinthians 1:2)
  • God made you a patient person because you’re complete in Christ. (Colossians 2:10)
Amen.
However, I see many of those being a product of our growth, as believers...
and true spiritual fruit takes time for God to grow.
The Old Covenant was conditional based on mankind’s imperfect works. The New Covenant is conditional based on faith in Jesus’ perfect work. Do you see the amazing difference?
My question to you is, "Do you, Dave?"
Do you see the difference between the two covenants and who they were made with?

The Mosaic Covenant was established with the nation of Israel ( and included God's elect remnant within the nation ), and those Gentiles who joined themselves to Israel and lived under the Law.
Noah, Enoch, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob and anyone else whom God called by His grace prior to Moses' time, did not live under it.

The New Testament in Christ's blood represents a new covenant made with all of God's elect, both Jew and Gentile;
Jesus Christ as head of the corner, and us as "little stones" builded into a spiritual temple.
It is a completely unconditional covenant with evidential marks, that characterize every one of Christ's sheep;


One of which is that they forgive those who trespass against them, knowing that God will judge the matter in the fullness of time.
 
Last edited:

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Read the New Testament with a lot more clarity now that you know the New Testament starts in Acts, rather than Matthew!
Dave,
Regardless of where the New Testament begins ( which you've identified in post #2 and I agree with ), each and every "natural" statement pertaining to God's children is unilaterally true no matter which time period they come from.

For example, beginning in Matthew 5, I clearly see a list of things that are true for all of the saved and is a constant throughout the Scriptures, no matter where we find that information.
In many places, even in the Psalms, I see that the children of God are:

1) The poor in spirit, of which it is said that the kingdom of Heaven is theirs.
2) They that mourn
3) The meek
4) They which do hunger and thirst after righteousness
5) The merciful
6) The pure in heart
7) The peacemakers
8) They which are persecuted for righteousness' sake
9) Those that are reviled for God's sake and for the Lord Jesus' sake ( God and Jesus Christ are one and the same, after all )
10) God's people are the "salt" of the earth... bringing savor to God which otherwise would not be there, were it not for those who believe and trust in Him.
11) The light of the world. Jesus being the Light of the world ( John 8:12 ), we as believers are "lights" in the spiritual sense. We love what God loves and we hate what the Lord hates...and that is the main reason that we are hated by this world.

There are many others, and they are all collectively what I call "necessary evidences" of a true believer;
One who has had their heart changed and no longer loves this present world and its ways.
 
Last edited:

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Yes,
I agree that there are things that were spoken to the Jews who were following Him that only applied to the Jews under the Mosaic Covenant...
But again, there are also things that He taught His disciples that are universally true for all of His elect, no matter what covenant they were under at a particular point in time.
Enoch, for example, was not under the Mosaic Covenant...

Yet, he walked with God and had experienced a heart change just as others ( like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ) did.
To emphasize this fact, Genesis 4 records that sometime after Adam and his wife began having children, "...then began men to call upon the name of the Lord."
Which reminds me...
Remember this from your reading?

" For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. "
( Romans 10:12-13 ).

Old Testament, New Testament, none of that governs when God's people began to call upon Him...
From Abel all the way through to the last one on the list before He comes again, none shall be lost;
But all, including Enoch and Noah, are now part of the house of God that He has built upon His Son.


My friend, the New Testament begins with Jesus Christ and ends with Jesus Christ.
It began after His death, and continues to this day and forever more.

That said,
Except for who the New Testament involves and applies to, I agree with much of what you've stated in posts 1 & 2.
Believers in Jesus Christ should read the Scriptures carefully, knowing that they are at peace with God, and are not on a "performance treadmill" to find acceptance with Him;

Rather, they were and are made accepted in the beloved, and it had nothing to do with their own efforts at pleasing God.
 
Last edited:

Dave...

Active Member
Not everyone, Dave.
The sobering fact is, there are people who will seek to enter in and shall not be able ( Luke 13:24 ), and there will be many to whom the Lord Jesus will say, at the Judgement, "I never knew you" ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).

So close. lol The people who seek did not seek to enter God's way, the narrow gate, but to seek to enter their way, the wide gate. Luke 13:24. "I never knew you" is just the Chaff who thought that they were wheat. What does that have to do with the elect?

The new covenant was and is only intended for all of God's elect.
Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

In fact, I'll post something that will help clarify.

Wuest Hebrews outline.
 
Last edited:

Dave...

Active Member
HEBREWS
Analysis by Kenneth S. Wuest
Wuest's Word Studies
From the Greek New Testament


I. The New Testament is better than and takes the place of the First Testament because its Founder, the Messiah, is better than... (1:1-8:6)


1. The prophets (1:1-3) since Messiah is...


....a. God the Son (vv. 1,2)

....b. Heir of all things (v.2)

....c. Creator of the universe (v.2)

....d. Outshining of God's glory (v.3)

....e. The expression of the nature or essence of Deity (v.3)

....f. The sustainer of the universe He created (v.3)

....g. The sacrifice that paid for sin (v.3)

2. The angels (1:4-2:18), since He...

....a. Has a better name, Son (1:4,5)

....b. Is worshipped by angels (v.6)

....c. Is Creator and Master of angels (v.7)

....d. Has an eternal throne (v.8)

....e. Rules in righteousness (v.8)

....f. is anointed with the Holy Spirit (v.9)

....g. Is unchangeable (vv. 10-12)

....h. Is seated at God's right hand (v.13)

....i. Has ushered in a Testament which displaces theirs (2:1-4)

--------(1) Warning against letting New Testament truth slip away (v.1)

--------(2) If rejection of First Testament truth was punished (v.2) how much more will rejection of New Testament truth be punished (v.3) and which truth was spoken by the Lord who is superior to angels, and which was attested by miracles (vv.3,4)

....j. Is to be Ruler over the Messianic Kingdom (vv.5-9)

--------(1) Angels, being servants, cannot rule (v.5)

--------(2) Adam placed over earth, lost his dominion through sin (vv.6-8)

--------(3) Our Lord has regained it for man, who will be associated with Him in His rule. (v.9)

....k. Is the High Priest who has put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself (vv.10-18)

--------(1) He becomes Saviour through His death on the cross (v.10)

--------(2) This death made possible through His incarnation (vv.11-16)

--------(3) As High Priest for human beings, it was necessary that He become incarnate (vv.17,18)

3. Moses (3:1-6) because...

....a. He is Creator of Israel, Moses only a member of that house (v.3)

....b. He is Son of God over Israel, Moses only a servant (v.5)

....c. He is the reality, Moses the type (v.5)

4. Joshua (3:7-4:13) because He leads into spiritual rest which is better than temporal rest into which Joshua led Israel.

....a. Warning against hardening their hearts toward the Holy Spirit as the wilderness wanderers hardened their hearts against God. (3:7-9)

....b. That generation did not enter Canaan rest (vv.10-11)

....c. The evidence of the fact that the recipient is saved is that he retains his profession of faith in Christ under the stress of persecution, not going back to the First Testament sacrifices. (vv.6,14)

....d. The recipient will die in his sins if he fails to put his faith in Christ as High Priest, just as the wilderness wanderers died a physical death because of unbelief. (3:15-4:8). The name "Joshua" should be in the text rather than "Jesus" (v.8)

....e. Exhortation to enter rest in Christ, and warning against continued unbelief. (vv.10-13)

5. Aaron (4:14-8:6) since He...

....a. Ascended through the heavens into the actual Holy of Holies (4:14-16)

....b. Was taken, not from among men, but from the Godhead (5:1)

....c. Is sinless (v.2)

....d. Is an eternal High Priest (v.6)

....e. Becomes actual High Priest through His death and resurrection (vv.7-10)

....f. Is the reality as High Priest, which does away with the types of the First Testament (5:11-6:12)

--------(1) The recipients hard to teach and dull as to spiritual perception (5:11)

--------(2) They had been instructed in New Testament truth (v.12)

--------(3) They were babes, that is, immature in their spiritual thinking(v.13)

--------(4) They are exhorted to put away "the beginning word of the Christ," namely, the Levitical ritual, and be born along to New Testament truth (6:1)

--------(5) They are exhorted not to lay down again a foundation of First Testament doctrines (vv.1,2)

--------(6) They had been enlightened by the Holy Spirit as to New Testament truth (v.4)

--------(7) They had tasted of that which constitutes salvation (v.4)

--------(8) They had been willingly led along by the Holy Spirit in His pre-salvation work, Thus being a "partaker" (same Greek word translated "partner" in Luke 5:7)

--------(9) They had tasted the Word (v.5)

--------(10) They had seen the attesting miracles. (v.5)

--------(11) They had been led into repentance (v.6)

--------(12) Now should they fall away from their profession of faith in Christ and back to the sacrifices, it would be impossible to renew them to repentance (vv.6-8)

--------(13) The saved among the recipients would not apostatize (vv.9,10)

--------(14) The unsaved exhorted to follow in the steps of faith of the saved. (vv.11,12)

....g. Is a High Priest who actually brings the believer into an eternal standing in grace (vv.13-20)

--------(1) Abraham, the man of faith who was rewarded, a precedent (vv.13-15)

--------(2) God's oath and God's promise guarantee the believer's eternal retention of salvation (vv.16-18)

--------(3) This salvation made possible by the presence of the High Priest in the heavenly Holy of Holies (vv.19,20)

....h. A High Priest after the order of Melchisedec (7:1-3)

--------(1) Melchisedec, a sinner saved by grace, had no recorded parents, no recorded date of birth or death

--------(2) A type therefore of Jesus Christ in His eternal priesthood.

....i. A High Priest in a superior order of priesthood (7:4-10)

--------(1) The Aaronic priests received tithes (vv.4,5)

--------(2) Melchisedec received tithes from Abraham, therefore, was better than he (vv.6,7)

--------(3) Melchisedec in type still receiving tithes, whereas Aaronic priests die (v.8)

--------(4) Aaron in Abraham paid tithes to Melchisedec, therefore the latter is superior; therefore, our Lord is better than Aaron, being a priest in the order of Melchisedec (vv.9,10)

....j. Is High Priest of a Testament that offered a sacrifice that put away sin (vv.11-22)

--------(1) The First Testament neither offered nor made anything complete (v.11)

--------(2) First Testament priest came from tribe of Levi, the New Testament priest from the tribe of Judah (vv.12-17)

--------(3) First Testament set aside in favor of a better Testament (vv.18-22)

....k. Lives forever: the Aaronic priests died (vv.23-28)

--------(1) Because mortal, there were many Aaronic priests (vs.23)

--------(2) Our Lord because eternal, has a non-transferable priesthood (vv.24,25)

--------(3) Thus able to save the believer forever (v.25)

--------(4) A better High Priest, because sinless (vv.26-28)

....l. Officiates in a better tablernacle (8:1-6)

--------(1) His tabernacle the heavenly one, Aaron's merely the type (vv.1-5)

--------(2) His Testament therefore better than the one Aaron served under (v.6)

continued....
 

Dave...

Active Member
II. The New Testament is better than and takes the place of the First Testament, (8:7-10:39), because...


1. It was prophesied to be better (8:7-13)


....a. The First Testament faulty in that it did not put away sin (v.7)

....b. New Testament made with Israel and Judah (v.8)

....c. First Testament dealt with Israel as with a minor (v.9)

....d. New Testament through indwelling Spirit brings believers to adult sonship (v.10)

....e. Under the New Testament, all Israel in millennium will be saved (v.11)

....f. Under New Testament, sins put away (v.12)

....g. New Testament displaces First Testament (v.13)

2. It is actual; The First Testament only typical (9:1-15)

....a. First Testament typical (vv.1-10)

--------(1) Its sanctuary on earth (v.1)

--------(2) Its appointments typical (vv.2-5)

--------(3) Its priesthood temporary (vv.6-10)

....b. New Testament actual (vv.11-15)

--------(1) The reality better than the type (v.11)

--------(2) The sacrificial blood better (v.12)

..............(a) Animal blood cleanses from ceremonial defilement (v.13)

..............(b) Jesus' blood cleanses from actual sin (v.14)

..............(c) Therefore, He is the Priest of a better Testament (v.15)

3. It is made effective with better blood (9:16-10:39)

....a. The heavenly Testator Himself dies (9:16-22)

--------(1) A last will or testament operative at testator's death (vv.16-17)

--------(2) First Testament made operative by death of an animal (vv.18-22)

--------(3) New Testament made operative by death of Christ

....b. The better tabernacle purified with better blood (vv.23,24)

--------(1) Earthly tabernacle cleansed with animal blood (v.23)

--------(2) Heavenly tabernacle cleansed with blood of Messiah (v.24)

....c. The once for all sacrifice our Lord better than all the sacrifices of the First Testament (9:25-10:39)

--------(1) He suffered once on the cross (9:26); He appears in heaven as High Priest now (v.24); He will come in His second Advent to Israel (v.28)

--------(2) Blood of animals cannot take away sin (10:1-4)

--------(3) In view of that fact, Messiah volunteers to become the sacrifice (vv.5-9)

--------(4) In so doing He sets aside the First and establishes the Second Testament (vv.9,10)

--------(5) Notwithstanding this, Aaronic priests still offered animal sacrifices. (v.11)

--------(6) The New Testament Priest procured a finished salvation (vv.12-14)

--------(7) The Holy Ghost through Jeremiah bears witness to the New Testament (vv.15-17)

--------(8) The Cross does away with the Levitical sacrifices (v.18)

--------(9) The unsaved professing Hebrew exhorted to place his faith in the High Priest Himself (vv.19-22)

--------(10) Exhorted to hold fast his profession and not waver between the desire to go on to faith in Christ or to go back to the sacrifices (v.23)

--------(11) Exhorted to continue attendance upon the New Testament assembly (v.25)

--------(12) Warned not to sin willfully in renouncing his professed faith in Christ and going back to the sacrifices (v.26)

--------(13) For the one who would go back, there remains only judgment (v.27)

--------(14) The one who rejected the First Testament was punished (v.28)

--------(15) The one committing the threefold sin against the three Persons of the Triune God would be punished more severely (vv.29-31) ; the sin namely of

................(a) Treading under foot the Son of God, a sin against God the Father who sent the Son

................(b) Counting Jesus' the same as ours, a sin against God the Son who shed his blood

................(c) Doing despite to the Holy Spirit in turning away from His further ministrations, a sin against God the Spirit who had led them into repentance

--------(16) The recipients are urged to remember the persecutions they endured for their testimony to Christ, and not let them go for naught by returning to the sacrifices (vv.32-37)

--------(17) They are urged to obtain justification through placing their faith in Messiah, and not draw back to perdition (vv.38,39)

Continued....
 

Dave...

Active Member
III. Faith, not works, the way of salvation, as proved by instance of First Testament saints (11:1-12:2)


1. Faith defined (11:1-3)

2. Faith illustrated (11:4-40)

3. Faith exhorted (12:1,2)]


IV. Final Warnings and Exhortations (12:3-13:25)


1. If these Jews remain under the chastening hand of God, and do not seek to escape persecution by renouncing their professed faith in Messiah, that is an evidence that they are saved. But if they do the opposite, that shows that they have never been saved (12:3-17)

2. When they come to New Testament truth, they come, not to the thunders of Sinai, but to the grace of Calvary (12:18-24)

3. They are warned not to refuse the Lord Jesus, for those who refused Moses were punished (12:25-29)

4. General exhortations (13:1-17)

5. Closing words (13:18-25)
 

Dave...

Active Member
Yes,
I agree that there are things that were spoken to the Jews who were following Him that only applied to the Jews under the Mosaic Covenant...
But again, there are also things that He taught His disciples that are universally true for all of His elect, no matter what covenant they were under at a particular point in time.
This is from JMac.

This is from Macarthur's study Bible...


---" A proper interpretation of the epistles requires the recognition that it addresses 3 distinct groups of Jews: 1) believers: 2) unbelievers who were intellectually convinced of the gospel; and 3) unbelievers who were attracted by the gospel and the person of Christ but who had reached no final conviction about Him. Failure to acknowledge these groups leads to interpretations inconsistent with the rest of scripture." (Macarthur)

Example: Hebrews

"The primary group addressed were Hebrew Christians who suffered rejection and persecution by fellow Jews (10:36-34), although none as yet had been martyred (12:4). The letter was written to give them encouragement and confidence in Christ, their Messiah and High-priest. They were an immature group of believers who were tempted to hold on to the symbolic and spiritually powerless rituals and traditions of Judaism.

The second group addressed were Jewish unbelievers who were convinced of the basic truths of the gospel but who had not placed their faith in Jesus Christ as their own Savior and Lord. They were intellectually persuaded but spiritually uncommitted. These unbelievers are addressed in such passages as 2:1-3; 6:4-6; 10:26-29; and 12:15-17.

The third group addressed were Jewish unbelievers who were not convinced of the gospel's truth but had had some exposure to it. Chapter 9 is largely devoted to them ( see especially vv. 11,14,15,27,28 )."--- (Macarthur)
 
Last edited:

Dave...

Active Member
The reason why I posted this thread was because two of the largest false teachings today, in my opinion, mainly stems from the idea that the NT begins in Matthew chapter one, and not at the cross.

One, is Catholicism. Who still use the priesthood, and many OT teachings, not realizing that the Levitical Law was still in play until each of the Gospels records the cross, because it was still OT, or old Covenant.

Second, the error of Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches who believe in the doctrine of subsequence. That being, that if people were already born again in the NT (still OT), then the baptism of the Holy Spirit must be something more. That error has spawned one of the largest movements, and thus the largest false teachings in modern day history. The baptism of/with the Holy Spirit is what places us into Christ, to be justified and born again. It doesn't place us into a state of the spiritual elite. That idea is so hostel to the truth of Scripture that it boggles the mind that people believe it.

Dave
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
"I never knew you" is just the Chaff who thought that they were wheat. What does that have to do with the elect?
My point is, how is the Gospel intended for everyone, and anyone can "get saved", if the Lord will then turn around and tell people that He supposedly loved that they are cursed ( Matthew 25 ) and that He never knew them ( Matthew 7 )?

How can the Lord, who has told us in no uncertain terms, that some have "ears to hear" and other do not...
All the while people saying that belief leads to regeneration?
If it were as simple as all that, everyone who believes that Jesus Christ is who He says that He is, would never be told those things.

Yes, I agree that He is speaking to those that He characterizes as "chaff"...
And we both know what He is going to do to the "chaff", don't we?

People who think that they are saved and in reality are not, are not God's elect.
Hebrews 8:6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

In fact, I'll post something that will help clarify.
While I appreciate your efforts to help clarify things for me, I don't feel that I'm in error in my understanding of the differing covenants and how they apply to us as men.

I can read and understand the book of Hebrews just fine...
But as recently as 15 years ago, I could not say this.
 
Last edited:

Dave G

Well-Known Member
The reason why I posted this thread was because two of the largest false teachings today, in my opinion, mainly stems from the idea that the NT begins in Matthew chapter one, and not at the cross.
I can see your point.

However, the New Testament began at the end of the Old, did it not?
So then Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were among the first of the New Testament apostles ( prophets ) who were used of God to declare the truths of that new covenant to others of God's elect.

I believe their accounts being classified as books of the New Testament as being accurate, since they follow a roughly 400 year silence of God's word until the Lord Jesus Christ was born.
 
Last edited:

Dave G

Well-Known Member
One, is Catholicism. Who still use the priesthood, and many OT teachings, not realizing that the Levitical Law was still in play until each of the Gospels records the cross, because it was still OT, or old Covenant.
I agree.
Second, the error of Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches who believe in the doctrine of subsequence. That being, that if people were already born again in the NT (still OT), then the baptism of the Holy Spirit must be something more.
It is "something more".
It's just not what Pentecostals and Charismatics think that it is.

Again, I see that in the Old Testament not all who were born again were indwelled by the Spirit;
Some were, and the Spirit was either in them or upon them to speak the word of God, to reveal dreams and their interpretations, and for other reasons that God had decided.

Today, after Pentecost, the Spirit comes in and dwells with each and every believer.
Their bodies become the temple of God because His Spirit is within all of them, which is what brings unity among His true people.
 

Dave G

Well-Known Member
The baptism of/with the Holy Spirit is what places us into Christ, to be justified and born again. It doesn't place us into a state of the spiritual elite.
I agree to an extent.
But my friend, justification of God's elect took place at the cross, not when they were indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

Their being born again is and was always a result of God's work which happens to them at some point in this life, and is closely associated with their hearing and believing God's words during the preaching of them.
Their being indwelt by the Spirit, their baptism with it, is what seals them until the day of their bodily redemption.

While we as believers are not baptized a second time ( placing us in a position of "spiritual eliteness" ), we do indeed, after that single baptism and the new birth that closely precedes it, begin to be very different than the world around us.
We grow to love what God loves, and hate what God hates, for starters.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree on some of these things, but I do understand why you see some of it the way that you do.
I did as well, many years ago now.

That said, it's time for me to end my involvement in this thread, sir.


As always,
May God bless you greatly in your studies of His precious word.
 
Last edited:

Dave...

Active Member
My point is, how is the Gospel intended for everyone, and anyone can "get saved", if the Lord will then turn around and tell people that He supposedly loved that they are cursed ( Matthew 25 ) and that He never knew them ( Matthew 7 )?
Hey Dave

The offer of the Gospel is made for all. That's the love part. But they still need to respond. There is a tension in the reformed understanding of Scripture. I'm assuming that in your question. I believe that most reformed people would claim that God's eternal purpose is not the same as His desire. This is how they reconcile all the contradictions between God's desire and His sovereignty. I never liked that way of thinking. It's one of the things in the reformed view that never sat right with me, theologically speaking. I don't see the delight by Jesus over those who are cursed or lost in Matthew 25. In fact, Jesus said this in chapter 23...

Matt. 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

How can the Lord, who has told us in no uncertain terms, that some have "ears to hear" and other do not...
All the while people saying that belief leads to regeneration?

Your seeing it in the context of your theology. Step outside of that and consider...Most, if not all who had "ears to hear" were OT believers. So you may equate "ears to hear" only with non believer to believer, like today, but that point in time in history there were true OT believers who already believed in OT revelation who were already justified in promise, and they believed, while not being born again. These are the ones who will hear the Gospel and trust in Jesus. The work that the Holy Spirit did in people at that time was from God's presence, but He was not in them. He was upon them (to do tasks), He was in their presence, like the Tabernacle and Temple, and Jesus Himself. Those, who the Father gave to the Son, will all believe. You see that unfolding in sorts in the book of Acts, as you see God opening hearts and minds to the Gospel. Jesus spoke in parables so that they couldn't understand. But, He also explained the parables to those who He did want to understand. That was all judicial. Yet they still could believe.

Think of it like this Dave. What if trusting in Jesus was not the same as the life we receive as a result? And the trust part, was all that the OT believers had, for the most part. All the types that were meant to teach and point, yet most still couldn't see it. The deeper hearing and seeing comes from the life that results from the initial faith in Jesus. That life was only available after the indwelling at Pentecost. OT believers still didn't have it, yet they had a very shallow version of it. They had enough to believe, if they needed it. It makes what Abraham did all the more amazing. For that reason also, I don't put as much on Peters denial, three times, and being afraid and not able to understand. He was a different person after Pentecost. The opposite, in fact.

People who think that they are saved and in reality are not, are not God's elect.

If there were ever an elect that I'm sure of, that would be OT believers who were declared righteous, like Abraham, and had yet to believe the Gospel. In fact, He never did in the flesh. Possibly, when Jesus peached to the Spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:21), is when all those OT believers who were dead heard the Gospel and believed for the first time. Consider, that those are the elect, the sheep, those who the Father gave the Son.

While I appreciate your efforts to help clarify things for me, I don't feel that I'm in error in my understanding of the differing covenants and how they apply to us as men.

I was thinking about this last night. How do I differentiate the two covenants, since in many ways, they are the same covenant. The answer is this. This parallels what Wuest said. The first was a type and it pointed, it was a covenant of promise. The New Covenant, is the realization of that promise. If you make a mental note in your mind that everything before the cross was still the covenant of promise, and after, the reality of that promise. That promise was waiting for the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus (the ingredients that save us), and the giving of the Holy Spirit indwelling (spiritual access to those ingredients), which was also waiting for the ingredients. This helps to put this transition into context better, that being the birth of the Church.

Dave
 

Dave...

Active Member
I agree to an extent.
But my friend, justification of God's elect took place at the cross, not when they were indwelt with the Holy Spirit.

It's the indwelling that gives us access to that justification that happened at the cross. Without the indwelling, nobody, not even OT believers were saved. It was still a promise for them until Pentecost. Romans eight specifically identifies the Life with the indwelling. As we see in other places also. Keep a mental note of the time frame of each passage with regards to the cross. Romans eight, after. Both John passages, before.

Romans 8:9-11 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

John 7:39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

John 3:14-15And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

Their being born again is and was always a result of God's work which happens to them at some point in this life, and is closely associated with their hearing and believing God's words during the preaching of them.
Their being indwelt by the Spirit, their baptism with it, is what seals them until the day of their bodily redemption.

The placing into, the baptism, gives life where there was death. It's a baptism by faith.

Eph. 2:5-6 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (see John 3:14-15 above)

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Gal. 3:26-27 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Again, we'll have to agree to disagree on some of these things, but I do understand why you see some of it the way that you do.
I did as well, many years ago now.

OK Dave peace
 
Top