The next Pope

[Matt Black]

To answer the OP, "the next Pope" will, I hope, endeavour to restore the collegiality and conciliar nature of the Catholic Church (with its implications for other Churches) envisaged by Vatican II

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: But as a "Christian" (if he was), he was a failure. Did Arafat get saved? Was the gospel even preached to him? Was he told how to be born again?

REsponse: I thought the Holy Spirit was the one who caused conversion. If success of a Christian is how Many people I saved-- wow, I have never saved anyone, only Jesus saves through the Holy Spirit.

By the way Pope John Paul DID preach the Gospel directly to more people DIRECTLY than any other human being in history. I was at a Papal mass with 3 million people where he preached the Gospel well, and challenged at the young people in following the disciples in bringing the Gospel in to the world.

He Preached the Gospel directly to Fidel Castro(that has been shown on video numerous times this week). He also preached to Mikael Gorbachev(who is now Christian by the way).

peace

 

[violet]

Baptism isn't mentioned in the entire chapter of John 3.

But it's in the very first sentance of chapter 4 and the last I knew, the Bible wasn't written with the chapters and verses in it.

 

[Matt Black]

What, then, do you make of Jesus' statement in John 3 to Nicodemus that we must be born again " of water and the Spirit"?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

[tamborine lady]

TP said:You said: Did Arafat get saved? Was the gospel even preached to him? Was he told how to be born again?

Just to answer that part of your question, yes he did,

According to Arthur Blessed, he talked to Arafat about Jesus, told him how to be saved and led him to the Lord.

Peace,

Tam

 

[tragic_pizza]

Originally posted by DHK:
Have you ever heard the Pope tell anyone in the world, much less Arafat, how they can be born again? I don't think so!

I don't know about arafat, but according to the quotes in this thread, JPII was quite orthodox in his Christology. Not, I'm sure, "orthodox" enough for you, but orthodox enough for most Christians.

 

[csmith]

Originally posted by Matt Black:
What, then, do you make of Jesus' statement in John 3 to Nicodemus that we must be born again " of water and the Spirit"?

Yours in Christ

Matt

Matt,
You would do well to study what water meant in that context. It is obviously a reference to a physical birth. Each person is enveloped in water in their mothers womb. Hence, the contrast between born of the "flesh" and of the "spirit".

 

[Matt Black]

Then why refer to "born again / from above "(the dual translation of Jesus' ανωθεν in v3) of water and the Spirit? Doesn't sound like physical birth at all; although Nicodemus (v4) thinks it is (homing in on the 'again' meaning only), Jesus in vv5-7 clearly disbuses him of that notion by repeating the double-entendre

Yours in Christ

Matt

[ April 04, 2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: Matt Black ]

 

[csmith]

Because two births are necessary to life. One birth is of the flesh (as denoted in the text) and the other is of the Spirit. They are plainly contrasted:
JN. 3:5>
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit"

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Living4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />A great political leader, yes; but as a religious leader, a failure.

Really?

Well, let's take a look at some of his writings that he sent to Christians everywhere (not to mention world leaders).

Evangelium vitae(just a few snipets)
</font>[/QUOTE]Even some of your quotes are political in nature in case you hadn't noticed, though most were religious. But that is the problem. Man doesn't need relgion; he needs Christ. There are many good references to the Bible, and much talk of missions, and of Christ. But never once does he show how a person can be saved; how a person can be born again. It is religion; not faith in Christ. He may talk about such things, but that is as far as it goes.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

You said: But as a "Christian" (if he was), he was a failure. Did Arafat get saved? Was the gospel even preached to him? Was he told how to be born again?

REsponse: I thought the Holy Spirit was the one who caused conversion. If success of a Christian is how Many people I saved-- wow, I have never saved anyone, only Jesus saves through the Holy Spirit.

Jesus does indeed save. He gave the Great Commission to go into all the nations and preach the gospel to ever creature to eleven men. He used men not angels to preach the gospel. The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God, which God gave to mankind. If we fail in our duty to use the word of God and present the gospel message to others that they may be saved, their blood will be upon our hands.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

TP said:You said: Did Arafat get saved? Was the gospel even preached to him? Was he told how to be born again?

Just to answer that part of your question, yes he did,

According to Arthur Blessed, he talked to Arafat about Jesus, told him how to be saved and led him to the Lord.

Peace,

Tam

By their fruits ye shall know them. Those were Jesus words.
I go by the words of Jesus, not by the words Arthur Blessed or whomever. Their was no fruit in Yasser Arafat that he was ever saved. He was a terrorist to the very end.
DHK

 

[Living4Him]

DKH,

Here in is the problem of easy believism. It appears that if the pope didn't hold an altar call, he wasn't preaching or teaching the gospel message.

When an adult comes to Christ through the Catholic Church, he/she is "discipled" for a year before he/she makes a public profession of faith.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Living4Him:
DKH,

Here in is the problem of easy believism. It appears that if the pope didn't hold an altar call, he wasn't preaching or teaching the gospel message.

When an adult comes to Christ through the Catholic Church, he/she is "discipled" for a year before he/she makes a public profession of faith.

There is no altar call needed. We don't always have one, in fact, rarely. You have stereotypyed Baptists. As far as I know the Catholic "profession of faith" is simply confirmation. In hindsight it is rather a meaningless ritual. Again I stress the words of Jesus:

Except a man be born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.
Jesus repeated this three times. It was important to be born again. This has nothing to do with baptism. But for the sake of argument let me put this to you. If Catholic dogma concerning this is right (even though I am sure it isn't), then I have nothing to worry about and neither do you. It won't affect me either way. However, if Catholic dogma concerning this is wrong (as I am sure it is), then you have all eternity to lose (as very probably the pope already has). Are you willing to take that chance?
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by violet:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Baptism isn't mentioned in the entire chapter of John 3.

But it's in the very first sentance of chapter 4 and the last I knew, the Bible wasn't written with the chapters and verses in it. </font>[/QUOTE]John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

This is clearly another time and another subject. The break in chapters is warranted. The topic is changed.
So tell me, Violet, what does it mean to be born again?

 

[JGrubbs]

When you do a Google search for "next pope", this is the first article that comes up:

Will the next pope be black, Hispanic, American, a Jew?

Editor's note: This article originally ran in 2003, when Pope John Paul II was experiencing a serious enough illness to make people begin to speculate about who might be his successor. This article has been slightly modified and updated.

So, who will the next pope be—a black, a Hispanic, an American, or a Jew?

No, it's not a joke. All four are real possibilities.

The biggest differences between the papal selection process now and the last time are demographic ones. Of the five countries with the biggest Catholic populations, only one (Italy) is European. Forty-six percent of the world's Catholics are in Latin America; there are more Catholics in the Philippines than in Italy. In 1955 there were 16 million Catholics in all of Africa; today there are 120 million.

The cardinals who will be electing the next pope are a conservative group. All but five of the 117* voting cardinals (aka "cardinal electors") were appointed by Pope John Paul II, and most share his views. So, we probably won't see a flaming lefty as the next pontiff. Likely factors the cardinals will consider when voting: Do they pick a Third Worlder to reflect demographics or someone to shore up Old Europe Christendom? Do they want a young (well, under 70), telegenic man to explain Catholicism to the world? Or an older fellow who won't stick around for quite so long?

John Allen, the Vatican correspondent for the National Catholic Reporter, cites an old Italian saying, "Always follow a fat pope with a skinny pope." But if there's a backlash, many analysts believe it will likely be against this pope's penchant for centralizing authority, not against his ideology.

Source: Slate

 

[Living4Him]

It was important to be born again.

DKH, it appears that you are hung up on this terminology.

If a person professes belief in the Trinity, recognizing that man was born in a sinful state, and accepts that Jesus died and rose again that our sins will be forgiven by trusting in Him and professes that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and they faithfully follow after Christ and do the Will of the Father, how can you say that they are not born again?

Do Baptist have the market on being born again?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Living4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />It was important to be born again.

DKH, it appears that you are hung up on this terminology.</font>[/QUOTE]Me? Hung up on terminology? Have you not read:

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Perhaps you are suggesting that Jesus was hung up on the terminology "born again." He used it--three times in one chapter! I am only the messenger quoting the message. If you don't accept the message of Christ then what will you accept. The fact is the definition of "born again" according to the Catholic Church (is not what you have written), but is baptism. Baptism doesn't save.

If a person professes belief in the Trinity, recognizing that man was born in a sinful state, and accepts that Jesus died and rose again that our sins will be forgiven by trusting in Him and professes that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and they faithfully follow after Christ and do the Will of the Father, how can you say that they are not born again?

I am not going to comment on that, because not all Catholics believe that, and no one knows the heart of all Catholics. So lets reword what you have written:

"If a person professes belief in the Trinity, recognizing that man was born in a sinful state, and accepts that Jesus died and rose again that our sins will be forgiven by trusting in Him and professes that Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior and they faithfully follow after Christ and do the Will of the Father," does not necessarily mean that a person is born again, and in fact the person in question may very well not be born again.
Intellectual knowledge is meaningless in and of itself. If the knowledge has not been appropriated by the heart it will do no good.
The Bible says, "The devils also believe and tremble." So what is the difference?

Do Baptist have the market on being born again?

No, but Jesus does.
You must be born again. John 3:3

 

[tamborine lady]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by tamborine lady:


TP said:You said: Did Arafat get saved? Was the gospel even preached to him? Was he told how to be born again?

Just to answer that part of your question, yes he did,

According to Arthur Blessed, he talked to Arafat about Jesus, told him how to be saved and led him to the Lord.

Peace,

Tam
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By their fruits ye shall know them. Those were Jesus words.
I go by the words of Jesus, not by the words Arthur Blessed or whomever. Their was no fruit in Yasser Arafat that he was ever saved. He was a terrorist to the very end.
DHK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MY point was that somebody told him about Jesus and how to get saved, and "Arafat said the right words" so Arthur "thought" he received salvation.

But you are right DHK, obviously it did not mean anything to Arafat.

Especially in light of the fact that Arafat said one thing to his people in his own language and another to the world in English.

You are absolutely right, check the fruit, not the words of people!!!

Peace,

Tam

 

[Living4Him]

does not necessarily mean that a person is born again, and in fact the person in question may very well not be born again.

Here you say that they may or may not be born again.

What qualifies a person to be born again in the doctrine that you believe? Especially when one quotes John 3:16 "that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish."

So you can't possibly know if a person is born again or not, then how can you sit in judgment on another's salvation?

Do you just assume everyone is lost who does not follow your doctrine?