The NIV In Comparison to the ESV. Part 3

[Rippon2]

The English Standard Version is not the English Standard Version, nor should it ever be. It is a lightly dusted off RSV. It was a rush job to get it published in 2001. Now, 19 years later, it has taken micro steps in terms of improvement. For those who like ineloquent English, this is your Baby. Biblish abounds.

It arrived on the scene in the 21st century, but its form of English is an uneven mix. It has an ungainly, halting step. It can only be called a 'modern version' by a very elastic stretch of the term. Nonetheless, it is a serviceable version. It's to be preferred to the KJV. It is conservative and a God-honoring translation.

Yet it cannot be considered, in any sense, international. Thankfully, it doesn't pretend to aspire to that goal.

 

[Rippon2]

Romans

1:18
ESV : unrighteousness of men
NIV : wickedness of people

2:3
ESV : O man
NIV : you, a mere human being

2:4
ESV : Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness
NIV : Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness

2:16
ESV : God judges the secrets of men
NIV : God judges people's secrets

4:4
ESV : his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due
NIV : wages are not counted as a gift but as an obligation

4:20
ESV : No distrust made him waver
NIV : Yet he did not waver through unbelief

5:18
ESV : led to condemnation for all men....life for all men
NIV : resulted in condemnation for all people...life for all people

6:3
ESV : Do you not know
NIV : don't you know

6:12
ESV : Let not sin therefore reign
NIV : Therefore do not let sin reign

6:16
ESV : Do you not know
NIV : Don't you know

 

[Rippon2]

Romans

7:21
ESV : So I find it to be a law
NIV : So I find this law at work

10:2
ESV : I bear them witness
NIV : For I can testify about them

10:21
ESV : to a disobedient and contrary people
NIV : to a disobedient and obstinate people

11:13
ESV : I magnify my ministry
NIV : I take pride in my ministry

11:25
ESV : Lest you be wise in your own conceits
NIV : so that you may not be conceited

12:11
ESV : Do not be slothful in zeal
NIV : Never be lacking in zeal

13:14
ESV : put on the Lord Jesus Christ
NIV : clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ

14:13
ESV : Therefore let us not
NIV : Therefore let us stop

14:18
ESV : Whoever thus...approved by men
NIV : Because anyone...human approval

15:28
ESV : I will leave for Spain by way of you
NIV : I will go to Spain and visit you on the way

 

[alexander284]

The English Standard Version is not the English Standard Version, nor should it ever be. It is a lightly dusted off RSV. It was a rush job to get it published in 2001. Now, 19 years later, it has taken micro steps in terms of improvement. For those who like ineloquent English, this is your Baby. Biblish abounds.

It arrived on the scene in the 21st century, but its form of English is an uneven mix. It has an ungainly, halting step. It can only be called a 'modern version' by a very elastic stretch of the term. Nonetheless, it is a serviceable version. It's to be preferred to the KJV. It is conservative and a God-honoring translation.

Yet it cannot be considered, in any sense, international. Thankfully, it doesn't pretend to aspire to that goal.

Yes, I like the ESV, but on the other hand, I can certainly see it's shortcomings. And I don't disagree with anyone you say here.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, I like the ESV, but on the other hand, I can certainly see it's shortcomings. And I don't disagree with anyone you say here.

I actually like how it reads, as when first bought one, surprised how much felt like my NKJV!

 

[Conan]

ESV = RSV = ASV = RV = KJV = 1611KJV = Bishops = Geneva = Great = Matthews = Coverdale = Tyndale.

 

[Rippon2]

Yes, I like the ESV, but on the other hand, I can certainly see it's shortcomings. And I don't disagree with anyone you say here.

You mean with anyone.

 

[Rippon2]

ESV = RSV = ASV = RV = KJV = 1611KJV = Bishops = Geneva = Great = Matthews = Coverdale = Tyndale.

Geneva is not in the lineage of the Tyndale tradition.

 

[Conan]

Geneva is not in the lineage of the Tyndale tradition.

With all due respect it is. Tyndale’s translations, and to a lesser degree Coverdale’s are the foundation of the Geneva Bible. Yes, it’s translators improved some and contributed, but the foundation is still Tyndale’s. Especially in the New Testament.

 

[alexander284]

You mean with anyone.

Oh, actually, I meant "anything."

 

[Conan]

The English hexapla : exhibiting the six important English translations of the New Testament Scriptures, Wiclif, M.CCC.LXXX., Tyndale, M.D.XXXIV., Cranmer, M.D.XXXIX., Genevan, M.D.LVII., Anglo-Rhemish, M.D.LXXXII., Authorised, M.DC.XI. : the original Greek text after Scholz, with the various readings of the textus receptus and the principal Constantinopolitan and Alexandrine manuscripts, and a complete collation of Scholz's text with Griesbach's edition of M.DCCC.V : preceded by an historical account of the English translations : Scholz, Johann Martin Augustin, 1794-1852 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

New testament octapla : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

For comparing early English Translations.
Tyndale (1525) 1535
Great Bible (1539) 1540
Geneva Bible (1560) 1562
Bishops (1568) 1602
Rheims 1582
King James Version (1611) 1873
American Standard Version (1881) 1901
Revised Standard Version (1946) 1960

 

[alexander284]

Romans

7:21
ESV : So I find it to be a law
NIV : So I find this law at work

10:2
ESV : I bear them witness
NIV : For I can testify about them

10:21
ESV : to a disobedient and contrary people
NIV : to a disobedient and obstinate people

11:13
ESV : I magnify my ministry
NIV : I take pride in my ministry

11:25
ESV : Lest you be wise in your own conceits
NIV : so that you may not be conceited

12:11
ESV : Do not be slothful in zeal
NIV : Never be lacking in zeal

13:14
ESV : put on the Lord Jesus Christ
NIV : clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ

14:13
ESV : Therefore let us not
NIV : Therefore let us stop

14:18
ESV : Whoever thus...approved by men
NIV : Because anyone...human approval

15:28
ESV : I will leave for Spain by way of you
NIV : I will go to Spain and visit you on the way

Well, after carefully considering all the specific examples you've presented here, I have to admit it: you've persuaded me that the NIV is the superior Bible translation (as opposed to the ESV).

Therefore, after further review, I've decided to return to the NIV as my primary translation. The evidence you've provided cannot be overlooked or ignored.

*setting my pride aside now *

 

[Rippon2]

I actually like how it reads, as when first bought one, surprised how much felt like my NKJV!

Do you hang out with Tonto, Yoda or both? Do they speak like you do in your neighborhood?

 

[alexander284]

Do you hang out with Tonto, Yoda or both? Do they speak like you do in your neighborhood?

As for me, I'm having difficulty reconciling the wording found in his posts with the often claimed IQ of 140.

 

[Rippon2]

Mark

1:2
ESV : before hyour face
NIV : ahead of you

2:15
ESV : reclined at table
NIV : having dinner

3:28
ESV : children of man
NIV : people

4:33
ESV : With many such parables
NIV : With many similar parables

5:29
ESV : the flow of blood dried up
NIV : bleeding stopped

6:5
ESV : he could do no mighty work there
NIV : He could not do any miracles there

8: 17
ESV : Do you not yet perceive
NIV : Do you still not see

 

[Rippon2]

Mark

9:28
ESV : Why could we not cast it out?
NIV : Why couldn't we drive it out?

10: 7
ESV : hold fast to his wife
NIV : be united to his wife

14:60
ESV : Have you no answer to make?
NIV : Are you not going to answer?

14:65
ESV : the guards received him with blows
NIV : the guards took him and beat him

15:44
ESV : surprised to hear that he should have already died
NIV : he asked him if Jesus had already died

 

[Yeshua1]

As for me, I'm having difficulty reconciling the wording found in his posts with the often claimed IQ of 140.

many persons with extreme intelligence have been "hard to follow"

 

[Rippon2]

And,and, and, and, and, and, and ad infinitum.

I made a thread about this subject years ago. The occurrence of the word 'and' permeates the ESV, but especially so in the book of Mark. I have counted only the first word of the opening sentence in all the verses in the book of Mark. Of course in many verses there are multiple sentences in which the first word happens to be 'and' --but I have not included those instances.

I will give the chapter number and how many times the word 'and' is in the first sentence of given verses.

1 : 26
2 : 16
3 : 18
4 : 20
5 : 25
6 : 29
7 : 18
8 : 25
9 : 30
10 : 33
11 : 21
12 : 23
13 : 16
14 : 38
15 : 34

So that's a total of 372 times, if my count is accurate. Maybe the NKJV mirrors this amount. It gets to be a hindrance when reading. I know Mark is an action book, but certainly it is not a mark of fidelity to use that particular word so many times in modern English translations when other ways of wording things could be used instead.

In chapter 14 where the ESV uses the word 'and' 38 times --the NIV doesn't use it at all.

By the way, in chapter 16 the first eight verses the ESV uses 'and' six times.

 

[alexander284]

many persons with extreme intelligence have been "hard to follow"

Boasting about one's "extreme intelligence" is prideful, unwise, and definitely not "Christian."

 

[Yeshua1]

Boasting about one's "extreme intelligence" is prideful, unwise, and definitely not "Christian."

Not boasting, was "tongue in cheek"