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The NIV In Comparison to the ESV. Part 3

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Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Amos

1:5
ESV : cut off the inhabitants from the Valley of Aven
NIV : I will destroy the king who is in the Valley of Aven

2:14
ESV : Flight shall perish from the swift
NIV : The swift will not escape

4:1
ESV : Bring that we may drink!
NIV : Bring us some drinks!

4:6
ESV : I gave you cleanness of teeth
NIV : I gave you empty stomachs

4:8
ESV : so two or three cities would wander to another city
NIV : people staggered from town to town

4:10
ESV : I sent among you a pestilence after the manner of Egypt
NIV : I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt

4:12
ESV : Therefore thus I will do for you
NIV : Therefore this is what I will do to you
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Amos

5:3
ESV : The city that went out a thousand
NIV : Your city that marches out a thousand strong

5:10
ESV : They hate him who reproves in the gate
NIV : There are those who hate the one who upholds justice in court

5:16
ESV : They shall call the farmers to mourning
NIV : The farmers will be summoned to weep

5:18
ESV : Why would you have the day of the Lord?
NIV : Why do you long for the day of the Lord?

5:21
ESV : I take no delight in your solemn assemblies
NIV : your assemblies are a stench to me

6:3
ESV : O you who put far away the day of disaster
NIV : You put off the day of disaster

6:6
ESV : who drink wine in bowls
NIV : You drink wine by the bowlful

6:7
ESV : the revelry of those who stretch themselves out shall pass away
NIV : your feasting and lounging will end

6:12
ESV : Does one plow there with oxen?
NIV : Does one plow the sea with oxen?

6:14
ESV : I will raise up against you a nation
NIV : I will stir up a nation against you
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
More From Joel

2:2
ESV : their like has never been before
NIV : such as never was in ancient times

2:11
ESV : The Lord utters his voice before his army, for his camp is exceedingly great
NIV : The Lord thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number

3:4
ESV : What are you to me
NIV : what have you against me

3:9
ESV : Consecrate for war
NIV : Prepare for war

3:11
ESV : Hasten and come
NIV : Come quickly

3:13
ESV : Go in, tread
NIV : Come, trample the grapes

3:21
ESV : I will avenge their blood, blood I have not avenged
NIV : Shall I leave their innocent blood unavenged? No, I will not.
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Hosea

2:3
ESV : lest
NIV : Otherwise

2:4
ESV : Upon her children also I will have no mercy
NIV : I will not show my love to her children

2:6
ESV : I will hedge her up
NIV : I will block her path

2:11
ESV : I will put an end to all her mirth
NIV : I will stop all her celebrations

2:12
ESV : I will lay waste her vines
NIV : I will ruin her vines

2:18
ESV : I will make for them a covenant
NIV : I will make a covenant for them

4:12
ESV : My people inquire of a piece of wood
NIV : My people consult a wooden idol

4:15
ESV : let not
NIV : do not let
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Hosea

5: 1
ESV : Give ear
NIV : Listen

5:2
ESV : the revolters have gone deep into slaughter
NIV : The rebels are knee-deep in slaughter

5:4
ESV : they know not
NIV : they do not

5:9
ESV : I make known what is sure.
NIV : I proclaim what is certain.

6:8
ESV : tracked with blood.
NIV : stained with footprints of blood.

7:1
ESV : they deal falsely
NIV : They practice deceit

7:2
ESV : they are before my face
NIV : they are always before me

7:9
ESV : he knows it not
NIV : he does not notice

7:11
ESV : silly
NIV : easily deceived

7:16
ESV : They return, but not upward, they are like a treacherous bow
NIV : They do not turn to the Most High; they are like a faulty bow

7:16
ESV : This shall be their derision in the land of Egypt
NIV : For this they will be ridiculed in the land of Egypt
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Hosea


7:11
ESV : silly
NIV : easily deceived
I used to have a book by Bill Bryson called Mother Tongue. It's fascinating as it details in a humorous manner the history and oddities of words. One of those words that he mentioned was silly. It has undergone several changes in meaning over the centuries. Before it became commonplace for it to mean foolish, it used to mean naive, but innocent. I think the original RSV text, which the ESV translators didn't bother to revise used the quaint older meaning. The ESV team really needs to up their game.
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Hosea

8:2
ESV : To me they cry, My God, we, --Israel ---know you.
NIV : Israel cries out to me, Our God, we acknowledge you!

8:4
ESV : They set up princes, but I knew it not.
NIV : they choose princes without my approval.

8:10
ESV : the king and princes shall soon writhe because of the tribute
NIV : They will begin to waste away under the oppression of the mighty king.

9:1
ESV : Rejoice not
NIV : Do not rejoice

9:6
ESV : Nettles shall possess their precious things of silver
NIV : Their treasures of silver will be taken over by briars

9:7
ESV : the days of recompense have come
NIV : the days of reckoning are at hand

9:8
ESV : a fowler's snare is on all his ways
NIV : snares await him on all his paths

9:12
ESV : I will bereave them till none is left.
NIV : I will bereave them of every one.
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Hosea

10: 11
ESV : Jacob must harrow for himself
NIV : Jacob must break up the ground

10:15
ESV : Thus
NIV : So

11:4
ESV : I became to them as one who
NIV : To them I was like one who

11:8
ESV : My heart recoils within me
NIV : My heart is changed within me

13:4
ESV : besides me there is no savior
NIV : no savior except me

13:6
ESV : they were filled, and their heart was lifted up
NIV : when they were satisfied they became proud

13:7
ESV : So I am to them like a lion
NIV : So I will be like a lion to them

13:12
ESV : his sin is kept in store
NIV : his sins are kept on record

13: 13
ESV : for at the right time he does not present himself at the opening of the womb
NIV : when the time arrives, he doesn't have the sense to come out of the womb.

13:14
ESV : Compassion is hidden from my eyes
NIV : I will have no compassion

13:15
ESV : It shall strip his treasury of every precious thing.
NIV : His storehouse will be plundered of all its treasures.

14:2
ESV : accept what is good
NIV : receive us graciously

14:8
ESV : It is I who answer and look after you.
NIV : I will answer him and care for him.
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Lamentations

1:5
ESV : Her foes have become the head
NIV : Her foes have become her masters

1:20
ESV : my heart is wrung within me
NIV : in my heart I am disturbed

2:12
ESV : They cry to their mothers...as they faint like a wounded man...as their life is poured out on their mothers' bosom
NIV : They say to their mothers...as they faint like the wounded...as their lives ebb away in their mothers' arms

2:19
ESV : at the head of every street
NIV : at every street corner

2:20
ESV : With whom have you dealt thus?
NIV : Whom have you ever treated like this?

3:33
ESV : afflict or grieve the children of men
NIV : bring affliction or grief to anyone

3:39
ESV : Why should a living man complain, a man, about the punishment of his sins?
NIV : Why should the living complain when punished for their sins?

3:63
ESV : Behold their sitting and their rising
NIV : Look at them! Sitting or standing

4:16
ESV : he will regard them no more
NIV : he no longer watches over them

4:17
ESV : ever watching vainly for help; in our watching we watched
NIV : looking in vain for help; from our towers we watched
 

alexander284

Well-Known Member
Until I read all these specific examples from the ESV, I never realized how "clunky" the ESV is in the Old Testament passages.

It's virtually unchanged from the old RSV of 1952/1971.
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
Until I read all these specific examples from the ESV, I never realized how "clunky" the ESV is in the Old Testament passages.
True, but the New Testament has its share of awkward phraseology as well.
It's virtually unchanged from the old RSV of 1952/1971.
They say that 6% of the text was changed from the 1971 RSV edition.

Over the years on the BB I have given many examples of passages that need to be reworded. Perhaps the ESV team could condescend and actually take a hint, and do the necessary work of a true overhaul.
 

alexander284

Well-Known Member
True, but the New Testament has its share of awkward phraseology as well.

They say that 6% of the text was changed from the 1971 RSV edition.

Over the years on the BB I have given many examples of passages that need to be reworded. Perhaps the ESV team could condescend and actually take a hint, and do the necessary work of a true overhaul.

Only six percent? No wonder the changes seem negligible!
 

Conan

Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly, their goal was to quickly get something in print, which is why they licensed the RSV.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The strength of the NIV is that it reads very smoothly (or at least, the 1984 version did). But IMO this has been achieved by a certain looseness in its accuracy. One of the most annoying things one finds is the absence of certain conjunctions, notably 'for' and 'therefore' (or 'so'). Two examples, out of dozens one can find:

Isaiah 12:3 (NKJV). 'Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.'
Isaiah 12:3 (NIV). 'With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.' The ESV is similar, but that is not my concern.

The drawing of the water, is contingent upon knowing God's anger to be turned away and Him as one's salvation. There needs to be a connecting word to make that clear. 'Therefore' is a big 9 letter word; 'so' or even 'and' would do nicely.

Romans 1:18 (NKJV). 'For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. The ESV is similar.
Romans 1:18 (NIV). 'The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people.'

The reason that Paul is not ashamed of the Gospel (v.16) is because it is the power of God to salvation. And that is vital precisely because the wrath of God is currently revealed from heaven. The Greek preposition gar is there for a reason; to connect verse 18 to what has gone before. While I'm on this verse, 'wickedness' is a loose translation of adikia. It is the lack of godliness and the lack of righteousness for which God's wrath is revealed. I recently preached through Romans 1-8 in the NIV (1984), and I was constantly having to point out where prepositions had been left out.

If I had to choose the one most important quality in a Bible translator, it would not be intelligence or scholarship or knowledge of the original languages, vital as all these are. It would be humility. Anyone setting himself to translate the Bible is handling the very word of the living God and he should be aware of that, and do the work, metaphorically at least, on his knees. If ministers and Bible teachers will be judged more severely by God (James 3:1), how much more strictly again will translators of God’s word be judged, seeing that they have the power to lead or mislead tens of thousands of Christians as they do the work well or badly.

Seeing that ‘every word’ of God is pure and therefore important, the Bible translator will seek, in the fear of God, to make as faithful a rendering as he can. Everyone with even a smattering of Greek or Hebrew knows that an exact word-for-word translation is not possible. Sometimes people give examples of an entirely literal translation, and then suggest that since that ‘won’t do,’ the translator is free to muck about with the text until he comes up with something that seems right to him. This is not so. The same people take, perhaps, the K.J.V. translation of 2 Cor. 6:12; “Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels,” and say that it does not make much sense.’ Well, it is hard to understand for many people, but that is not the same as saying that it makes no sense; it made perfect sense in the 17th Century, and still makes sense to those who are prepared to make an effort. However, it is not the texts that are difficult to understand that are the most dangerous. If someone doesn’t understand something he can go to a dictionary or a concordance, or ask his minister. The really dangerous texts are the ones that are in simple, plain English, but are translated badly. People won’t ask about these because they think they understand them. Let's look at 2 Cor 6:12 again.

2 Cor. 6:12 (NKJV). 'You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections.'
2 Cor. 6:12 (NIV). 'We are not withholding our affections from you, but you are withholding yours from us.'

The NIV translation is pure paraphrase, and does not convey what the original says. The NKJV tidies up the KJV translation a bit (though 'bowels' is actually what the text says!) but conveys what Paul is saying.
 

alexander284

Well-Known Member
The OP is regarding the ESV, in comparison to the NIV.

Perhaps you'd like to start a new thread? The NKJV vs. the NIV?
 

Rippon2

Well-Known Member
The strength of the NIV is that it reads very smoothly. But IMO this has been achieved by a certain looseness in its accuracy. One of the most annoying things one finds is the absence of certain conjunctions, notably 'for' and 'therefore' (or 'so'). Two examples, out of dozens one can find:

Isaiah 12:3 (NKJV). 'Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.'
Isaiah 12:3 (NIV). 'With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.' The ESV is similar, but that is not my concern.

The drawing of the water, is contingent upon knowing God's anger to be turned away and Him as one's salvation. There needs to be a connecting word to make that clear. 'Therefore' is a big 9 letter word; 'so' or even 'and' would do nicely.
A number of translations differ with you on that score, aside from the NIV. Take a gander :CSB, Darby, ESV, ISV, LEB, NABRE, NET, NLT, NRSV and good ole' WYC.
 
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