The "No Lord gospel"

[skypair]

Yes,I believe in the dichotomy of people.We are binary creatures.

The way you believe is the way you will be saved. Do you really want that? to be saved "... and I pray God your whole spirit ........... and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ?" 1Thes 5:23

I mean, it is really getting down to where I can understand what Calvinists mean by salvation and it is incomplete according to their own testimonies if one is to go by the confessions of their own mouths.

skypair

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Yes,I believe in the dichotomy of people.We are binary creatures. I have read very little of Charles Hodge.I own none of his books.He is appreciated very much in Reformed circles though.However,he seems too philosophical to me.I like the writings of his son,A.A. better.They're much more clear.

Gordon Clark, though a Christian philosopher, is less philosophical in his short Bible book commentaries. He develops the dichotomous nature of people very well from the Word of God.

Thanks. I haven't read Hodge enough either, just enough to know he believed and defended teh dichotomy view.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

The way you believe is the way you will be saved. Do you really want that? to be saved "... and I pray God your whole spirit ........... and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ?" 1Thes 5:23

I mean, it is really getting down to where I can understand what Calvinists mean by salvation and it is incomplete according to their own testimonies if one is to go by the confessions of their own mouths.

skypair

What little I have read of Hodge has already dealt with that verse and every argument you could imagine in favor of a trichotomy view. Perhaps you should take a look at it. But I doubt you will.

 

[skypair]

What little I have read of Hodge has already dealt with that verse and every argument you could imagine in favor of a trichotomy view. Perhaps you should take a look at it. But I doubt you will.

Where is it? I don't mind looking -- I know trichotomy fell into disfavor on account of Plato -- but I also know what my Bible says.

I will add this: Dr Rogers taught trichotomy and I have merely a) confirmed it for myself in my own Berean-like studies and b) regurgitated it for your edification.

I will also add that a dichotomous has probably caused many to be lost while having the best of intentions toward God because it teaches that there is nothing in man that considers God -- not in creation, not in the gospel message, not in the whole visible world that is but a manifestation of His "power and Godhead." Rom 1:20-21.

Now that flagrantly contradicts scripture, young man, and I wouldn't be on that side if they paid me!

skypair

 

[Rippon]

I will add this: Dr Rogers taught trichotomy and I have merely regurgitated it for your edification.


skypair

Regurgitated it for your edification?! Sounds nasty!

 

[Rippon]

I will also add that a dichotomous has probably caused many to be lost ...

skypair

There you go again being Skypair in full-bloom!

 

[EdSutton]

Faith=belief

Elect=chosen

Christ=Messiah

Soul=Spirit

They're called synonyms.

While I tend to agree, here with the first three sets above, not the fourth, Bibilically.

The NT usage of the words of soul and spirit, which I believe are 'psuche' and 'pneuma', in the construction in I Thess. 5:23 & Heb. 4:12 clearly show they are not merely synonyms.
Some OT usage is similar, I believe, in I Sam. 1:15, Job 7:11 and a couple of instances in Isaiah, but I admit I do not know any Hebrew.

Ed

 

[skypair]

There you go again being Skypair in full-bloom!

Rip, suppose for a minute that I'm right. Suppose you don't think you have a "spiritual receptacle" for the Wisdom you keep and are committed to. Doesn't that put YOUR spirit on the throne of your life? Whatever YOU can rationalize, you can do. You may think you are "elect" (rationalize it) but does your conscience tell you that there is salvation without commitment?

Let me reiterate for you: The SOUL is the "book of life." The SPIRIT is the "book of works." You'll be judged out of the "book of works" alright --- but if your name is not found in the "book of life," good as your spiritual works might have been, they won't be enough to save you.

On the other hand -- here's a good one for you, 1Cor 3:10-11. You may be saved but be careful how you build on the foundation in your soul Build with GOLD, God's wisdom. Don't build with "WOOD" - men's wisdom. Get this: What did men build their idols with in the OT? Wood!! Isaiah said, "You carve out your idol, then take the rest of the wood and burn it to bake bread! Yet you call on your idol to answer you??" Don't be setting up Calvinism's wisdom as "alternative material" to God's! There's a consuming fire awaiting that "wisdom."

skypair

 

[Rippon]

Rip, suppose for a minute that I'm right.

Rip : No one in a logical frame of mind would suppose that you are right.

Let me reiterate for you: The SOUL is the "book of life." The SPIRIT is the "book of works." You'll be judged out of the "book of works" alright --- but if your name is not found in the "book of life," good as your spiritual works might have been, they won't be enough to save you.

skypair

That's more baloney from you. The Lamb's Book Of Life is not one's soul.It's the Divine register of those whom the Lord has enrolled from before the foundation of the world.

What really is disturbing about you is your constant belittling of those who differ with you,to the extent that you place them in the camp of the unregenerate. You have not only done it with me but others here such as Reformed Baptist and James, to name just two others.

Knock it off Mr. High-Flyer. The higher you think you are soaring above the rest of us, the greater will be your fall.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Where is it? I don't mind looking -- I know trichotomy fell into disfavor on account of Plato -- but I also know what my Bible says.

I will add this: Dr Rogers taught trichotomy and I have merely a) confirmed it for myself in my own Berean-like studies and b) regurgitated it for your edification.

I will also add that a dichotomous has probably caused many to be lost while having the best of intentions toward God because it teaches that there is nothing in man that considers God -- not in creation, not in the gospel message, not in the whole visible world that is but a manifestation of His "power and Godhead." Rom 1:20-21.

Now that flagrantly contradicts scripture, young man, and I wouldn't be on that side if they paid me!

skypair

I am 35, which seems old to me, but maybe your old. :laugh:

Here you go http://www.ccel.org/ccel/hodge/theology2.iii.ii.ii.html

 

[Rippon]

What did men build their idols with in the OT? Wood!! Isaiah said, "You carve out your idol, then take the rest of the wood and burn it to bake bread! Yet you call on your idol to answer you??" Don't be setting up Calvinism's wisdom as "alternative material" to God's! There's a consuming fire awaiting that "wisdom."

skypair

You Sir, are stepping over the line way too many times. Just back off and examine the words you type on your screen. That's it. Look at them.Foolishness is the word. And STILL you are putting me and other Calvinists in the camp of the unregenerate.I have no such idol as much as you may yelp about it.

I go by the Bible.You may claim to also, but your posts have failed the test time after time.

Knock off the manure-spreading routine.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You Sir, are stepping over the line way too many times. Just back off and examine the words you type on your screen. That's it. Look at them.Foolishness is the word. And STILL you are putting me and other Calvinists in the camp of the unregenerate.I have no such idol as much as you may yelp about it.

I go by the Bible.You may claim to also, but your posts have failed the test time after time.

Knock off the manure-spreading routine.

Ditto. It is really getting tiresome.

 

[mparkerfd20]

Ditto. It is really getting tiresome.

Ditto to your ditto. It's hard to make a good point, even if it is good, when you're constantly tearing down others.

 

[EdSutton]

I am 35, which seems old to me, but maybe your old.http://www.ccel.org/ccel/hodge/theology2.iii.ii.ii.html

Your picture makes you look older than 35, somehow. :laugh: :laugh:

Ed

 

[mparkerfd20]

There are many PB sites on the net, brother.

I got this from one:

I went to that site. The site was fairly depressing. :tear: Sounds like Primitive Baptist is exactly hyper-calvinism... And I say that as a fellow Calvinist.

 

[EdSutton]

Everybody on this board knows what my stand is regarding the preaching of the gospel, that it is for instructional purposes for people who are already regenerate and not for the purpose of the eternal salvation of the soul.

Having decided to re-read this thread, I came upon this post, where I find this that I have bolded extremely troubling and saddening, to say the least. :tear:

Why do I find this troubling? (Scriptures are from the NKJV, unless otherwise noted.)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. (I Cor. 15:1-8)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b](Ro. 1:16-17)

12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[b] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. (Eph. 1:12-14)

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. (Mk. 16:15-16)

Here are four passages that I'm aware of, 'off the top of my head', that tell us the gospel is for salvation when believed. At least two other times in Mk. 1:15 and Ac. 15:7, believe and gospel are tied together, as well. I also picked up on a couple of "buzz phrases" in the post, that also trouble me, but I am not getting sidetracked on them, or giving opportunity for another to 'derail', here, rather sticking to the one point.

By contrast, I see not one verse of Scripture that ever says the gospel (or even the preachin) is for "instructional purposes", although Scripture is said to be profitable for instruction in righteousness, and the OT accounts are written for our admonition and learning. (II Tim. 3:16; Rom. 15:4; I Cor. 10:11)

If you have Scripture saying what you claim, please reply with it. Otherwise, I do urge you to reconsider this.

Ed

 

[skypair]

I am 35, which seems old to me, but maybe your old. :laugh:

Here you go http://www.ccel.org/ccel/hodge/theology2.iii.ii.ii.html

Sorry, RB, but can these people speak ENGLISH?! Hodge seems to be saying that trichotomy is "supported by scripture" and then buries the whole mess in Greek and Hebrew. I would gladly consider something that wasn't so complicated that the author is obviously arguing against himself (clearly 2 spiritual entities survive the death of the body) and scripture itself!

Maybe it is me, at 61, that is getting too old for this. :laugh: I will only add that I often find Calvinists "burying" their error in special definitions and "striving about words to no profit but the subverting of the hearers," 2Tim 2:14. CONTEXT IS KING. That is why the NT can be written in thousands of languages without losing its meaning (unlike the OT where even the "letter" was sacred!).

skypair

 

[skypair]

You Sir, are stepping over the line way too many times. Just back off and examine the words you type on your screen. That's it. Look at them.Foolishness is the word. And STILL you are putting me and other Calvinists in the camp of the unregenerate. I have no such idol as much as you may yelp about it.

Again, you misinterpret what I say, rip. ANYONE who builds on the foundation of Christ and the apostles is SAVED. Got that?

But many build with "wood" as 1Cor 3 avers. And my allusion to it is quite appropriate. Think about it, rip. Gold or wood (wisdom or false wisdom) is the wisdom you set in your soul after salvation -- silver or hay (spiritual thoughts or carnal) is what you have in your mind/heart/spirit -- precious stones or stubble is what remains of your glory, what you did in your body. Again, this affirms the trichotomous nature of man and it is affirmed in 1Cor 3:18-21 -- "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world [Calvinism] is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain [humanly rational but not godly]. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; "

But you DO have an idol if it takes the place of godly wisdom, rip! And you do have carnal thoughts if is causes unwarranted division among the brethren. And it is patently obvious that you "glory in men," Calvin being the first in line.

skypair

 

[Rippon]

Again, you misinterpret what I say, rip.

But you DO have an idol if it takes the place of godly wisdom, rip! And you do have carnal thoughts if is causes unwarranted division among the brethren. And it is patently obvious that you "glory in men," Calvin being the first in line.

skypair

You have a lot of nerve to continue on with your trash after repeated warnings to cease your drivel.

I do not glory in men.You are the one bringing up Calvin all the time -- not me ( although you said you would never do such a thing, only deal with Calvinism).

You quote Mr. Rogers more than those who hold to Reformed Theology here quote Calvin. Would you appreciate the same kind of stuff thrown back in your face?I thought so.

Stop with the idol crapola.Stop accusing brethren of being unregenerate. Stop being so pompous. Stop making stuff up out of thin air. Stop attaching such importance to yourself and your highly-vaunted views which are hardly orthodox even among the ranks of non-Cals.Stop going through convoluted nonsense which you try to pass off as wisdom from above. In short -- Stop period. If you you can't behave,you won't be around the BB much longer.

 

[skypair]

I do not glory in men.You are the one bringing up Calvin all the time -- not me ( although you said you would never do such a thing, only deal with Calvinism).

Oh? Funny but you sound exactly like those whom Paul excoriated in 1Cor 1:12 saying "I am of Calvin." What did Paul call them? Carnal?

Stop with the idol crapola. Stop accusing brethren of being unregenerate.

You apparently -- in fact, didn't have time to before you posted your response -- didn't 1) go to the passage I cited in scripture and 2) consider the points I was making. IOW, you are being "reactionary" rather than rational.

Please, I implore you, consider the passage tonight. Read the words of Paul. Let the Spirit speak to you. This is NOT about your salvation -- it is about being led astray by false teachers (you can refer to my post on another thread where I exposit on Hymenaeus, Simon Magus, etal. who were likelly saved but turned over to Satan by Paul/Peter on account of blasphemy).

I am doing nothing illegal even according to BB rules. The fact that you react as you do only implicates your faith.

skypair