The One Baptism You Don't Want

[George Antonios]

Hopefully, this Bible study about the baptism of fire can help your Charismatic friends.
The study proves that the baptism of fire is the lake of fire/the judgment of God at the 2nd coming by comparing
A) the parallel passages about said baptism in the gospels
B) cross-references
and by
C) studying the immediate context of John's words.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Hopefully, this Bible study about the baptism of fire can help your Charismatic friends.
The study proves that the baptism of fire is the lake of fire/the judgment of God at the 2nd coming by comparing
A) the parallel passages about said baptism in the gospels
B) cross-references
and by
C) studying the immediate context of John's words.

The Promise

Acts 1:4-5

Being assembled together with them, he commanded them, “Don’t depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which you heard from me. For John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

The Fulfilment

Acts 2:1-4

Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all with one accord in one place. Suddenly there came from the sky a sound like the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Tongues like fire appeared and were distributed to them, and one sat on each of them. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak

 

[George Antonios]

The Promise

Acts 1:4-5

Being assembled together with them, he commanded them, “Don’t depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which you heard from me. For John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

The Fulfilment

Acts 2:1-4

Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all with one accord in one place. Suddenly there came from the sky a sound like the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Tongues like fire appeared and were distributed to them, and one sat on each of them. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak

In other words, you didn't watch the study?

 

[unprofitable]

The fire spoken of in the example you gave are two different fires.
Matt 3:11, Luke 3:16 "...He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire." The promise that Christ would baptize his bride people/body with the Holy Spirit of understanding is so that they might believe. The fire here is in the context of zealousness that they might be a zealous, victorious church kingdom. Titus 2:14 says," Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself, a peculiar people zealous (on fire) of good works."

The fire of the wrath of God is for unbelief, not belief.

Zealousness without guidance of the Holy Spirit a reason why Christ was crucified. See Gal 1:14, 4:17

Fire in the context of zealousness guided by the Holy Spirit:

Psalms 69:9, John 2:17, "...the zeal of thy house hath eaten me up." (On fire)

Psalms 132: David speaking by the spirit of Christ in him said in vs 4, "I will not give sleep to my mine eye nor slumber to mine eye lids". vs 5) Until I find a place for the Lord, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob" (on fire)

This figuratively speaks of Christ coming zealously (on fire) to search out/bring in the lost of the house of Israel into the new covenant kingdom.

I do agree those in the presentation do not understand/know what they are asking for.

 

[Dave G]

In other words, you didn't watch the study?

No I did not, but decided to submit this instead:

" I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:" ( Matthew 3:11 ).

" John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:" ( Luke 3:16 )


" Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see [him] not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 receiving the end of your faith, [even] the salvation of [your] souls." ( 1 Peter 1:1-9 ).

Here I see that the trial of the believer's faith is "with fire".

 

[Dave G]

" Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 but rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy [are ye]; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. " ( 1 Peter 4:12-14 ).


Also see:

Job 23:10,
Psalms 11:5,
Psalms 66:10,
Proverbs 17:3,
Isaiah 48:10,
Zechariah 13:9.

That is what I see the Bible teaching is the "fire" that all who are in Christ are baptized with...
The trial of our faith.

Given that, it definitely is a baptism that I want...
For without it, I am not His.


May God bless you.

 

[unprofitable]

Interesting point Dave,

Mal 3:2 "But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap.

Mal 3:3 "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness."

Isaiah 48:10 "See, I have refined you, though not as silver: I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

Zec 13:9 "And I will bring the third part of them through the fire, and I will refine them as silver is refined, and try them as gold is tried, they shall call on my name and I will hear them: I will say it is my people, and they shall say, the Lord is my God.

This refining is also seen in the parable of the sower in Matthew 13:3-9.

 

[atpollard]

Very few translations of Matthew 3:11 include a coma between “the Holy Ghost (or Spirit)” and “and Fire”. Most translations join them together into a single “baptism” of “Holy Spirit and fire”.

The video builds from the archaic KJV translation to reach conclusions vitally dependent on “added punctuation” to define the grammar.

 

[George Antonios]

Ok, let's all ignore that John Baptist defined his own expression as the 2nd coming fiery judgment against the wicked.
He should have known what you know.

 

[Van]

While there are believers who think the baptism of fire is not referring to the consequence of judgment, thus referring to the lake of fire, the context of the passage does indeed suggest that is exactly what it means. Nothing in the Greek grammar precludes this conclusion. Besides, that is what think too.

 

[37818]

The Promise

Acts 1:4-5

Being assembled together with them, he commanded them, “Don’t depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which you heard from me. For John indeed baptized in water, but you will be baptized in the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

The Fulfilment

Acts 2:1-4

Now when the day of Pentecost had come, they were all with one accord in one place. Suddenly there came from the sky a sound like the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Tongues like fire appeared and were distributed to them, and one sat on each of them. They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak

LOL. There are three baptisms not two in Matthew 3:11-12. ". . . he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

 

[atpollard]

LOL. There are three baptisms not two in Matthew 3:11-12. ". . . he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Shouldn't the AND be an OR?

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. [Matthew 3:11]

If there is a Baptism of the Holy Spirit (to life) and a Baptism of Fire (to eternal damnation), then "you" (from the verse) would receive the HOLY SPIRIT OR FIRE, right? What person would receive BOTH the Holy Spirit AND eternal damnation in the lake of Fire? So for that to be the "correct" meaning, should the verse not say "or"?

Acts 2 fits "and" better with the "fire" of Baptism not being the same as the fire into which the chaff was thrown.

How do you explain "baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"?

 

[JesusFan]

Shouldn't the AND be an OR?

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. [Matthew 3:11]

If there is a Baptism of the Holy Spirit (to life) and a Baptism of Fire (to eternal damnation), then "you" (from the verse) would receive the HOLY SPIRIT OR FIRE, right? What person would receive BOTH the Holy Spirit AND eternal damnation in the lake of Fire? So for that to be the "correct" meaning, should the verse not say "or"?

Acts 2 fits "and" better with the "fire" of Baptism not being the same as the fire into which the chaff was thrown.

How do you explain "baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"?

All IO know on thins is that Dr mac at His Strange Fire conference was spot on!

 

[kyredneck]

How do you explain "baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"?

'You' is Jews of that generation*, whether wheat to be gathered into the barn or chaff to be burnt with unquenchable fire.

* 10 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

 

[atpollard]

'You' is Jews of that generation*, whether wheat to be gathered into the barn or chaff to be burnt with unquenchable fire.

* 10 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

Maybe, but it strains John's message a bit:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

So John was baptizing the chaff with a baptism of repentance?
... like I said: maybe, but a little bit strained for the context.

Acts 2 as an understanding doesn't strain verse within 11, but strains against the "chaff burning" of verse 12.
I would prefer an explanation that strains neither verse ... so I ask questions.

 

[kyredneck]

Maybe, but it strains John's message a bit:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

Vengeance/wrath was in the mind of Christ when He said these words:

49 I came to cast fire upon the earth [THE LAND]; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?
50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
51 Think ye that I am come to give peace in the earth [THE LAND]? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 for there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 They shall be divided, father against son, and son against father; mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother; mother in law against her daughter in law, and daughter in law against her mother in law. Lu 12

That generation's baptism of fire came primarily in the form of DIVISION.

 

[Duckie]

Hopefully, this Bible study about the baptism of fire can help your Charismatic friends.
The study proves that the baptism of fire is the lake of fire/the judgment of God at the 2nd coming by comparing
A) the parallel passages about said baptism in the gospels
B) cross-references
and by
C) studying the immediate context of John's words.

I apologize but I am new here and still learning to navigate.

Is there a way to bookmark this page? Because I would like to watch your video and participate later. I was involved in the Apostolic Pentecostal/charismatic movement.

I honestly have no idea what it was about.

 

[37818]

Shouldn't the AND be an OR?

He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. [Matthew 3:11]

If there is a Baptism of the Holy Spirit (to life) and a Baptism of Fire (to eternal damnation), then "you" (from the verse) would receive the HOLY SPIRIT OR FIRE, right? What person would receive BOTH the Holy Spirit AND eternal damnation in the lake of Fire? So for that to be the "correct" meaning, should the verse not say "or"?

Acts 2 fits "and" better with the "fire" of Baptism not being the same as the fire into which the chaff was thrown.

How do you explain "baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire"?

The "you" is plural. Both the believers and non-believers. Three distinct immersions, baptisms are being.talked about. Water, the Holy Spirit and fire. I have understood this since 1968.

 

[JesusFan]

I apologize but I am new here and still learning to navigate.

Is there a way to bookmark this page? Because I would like to watch your video and participate later. I was involved in the Apostolic Pentecostal/charismatic movement.

I honestly have no idea what it was about.

You would really benefit from YouTube Strange Fire under John MacArthur!

 

[George Antonios]

I apologize but I am new here and still learning to navigate.

Is there a way to bookmark this page? Because I would like to watch your video and participate later. I was involved in the Apostolic Pentecostal/charismatic movement.

I honestly have no idea what it was about.

Click subscribe on the channel of the linked video. Then click the bell icon for updates.
The channel is called "Counsel and Might".
Here's another study that, by God's grace, will benefit you, as it cleared up many things for me regarding how to obtain the Holy Spirit: