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The "Originals"

Pastor KevinR

New Member
Originally posted by skanwmatos:
So, once again I ask you, "whose English is 'standard'?"

American? East or west?

British? Scots, Irish, Welsh or Cockney?

Australian? Mainland or Tasmanian?

New Zealand? North or South Island?
Don't youse guyse know that standard English is spoken in New Yawwk? :eek:
Seriously, what are your thoughts regarding newscasters? It seems to me, that no matter what part of the US that they're from, they seem to use a standard English, or should I say a standard American English?
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So then, as everybody speaks his own regional dialect of English, and none of them is standard, you are finally admitting there is no such thing as standard English? All I can say is IT'S ABOUT TIME!
No, I said no region owns standard English.

HankD
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I wonder what all the christians believed prior to the revelations of the modern textual critics, and whether they understood the reasons for some of the slight differences in the reading.
The masoretic Hebrew itself has a system of textual criticism embedded in the text itself.

There were three different tasks of copying the OT. The Sopherim wrote the consonantal text. The Nakdanim added the vowel points and accents. The Masoretes added the marginal notes. An example is the Kethib (what is written) and Qere (what should be read). There are over 1,300 of these. The vowels of the Qere were written in the text of the Kethib. There are three different systems of vowel pointing, the Babylonian, Palestinian and Tiberian which the Masoretes created. The marginal notes called Masora were mainly written in Aramaic and were like a concordance.
http://www.bibleandscience.com/languages/hebrew.htm
It wasn't an earth shattering issue. It never has been. The first gentile problem (it seems) was with the old Itala. The old Itala mss are/were notorious for their conflicting readings.

Jerome's Latin Vulgate (5th century) was the solution and went through several hands and revisions for over 1000 years.

http://wayoflife.org/fbns/jerome-latinvulgate.html

It was later claimed to be written in the "language of heaven" and better than the Greek.

It seems there are always those who must insist upon a translation which has fallen from heaven.

In my view, the original language mss should be the focus of "preservation" and translations secondary at best.

As Brother Ed has pointed once the obvious mss scribal blunders of the original laguage mss are resolved: spelling, word order (metathesis), homoioteuluton (a predictable kind of omission), etc, 2-4% of the text is affected. It has always been this way, more so with NT scribes and their work.

It didn't rattle Jesus when He read from the Book of Isaiah, so why get upset?

The KJVO are the modern counterparts of the Latin Vulgate Only adherents many of whom loudly proclaim that the sky is falling everytime an mv is published, some of them attributing the work to Satan.

No translation is perfect, the 1611 AV underwent it's first revision in 1613, for instance.

As to Greek Text, personally I believe the Scrivener TR (1894/5) is the "virtual" reproduction of the Greek NT. I know most BBers would disagree. However, I'm not the type to stage a Grand Inquisition as is so common here at the BB.

In fact I stand with the mv folks because of (IMO) the KJVO double-standards (e.g. things which are different are not the same (unless it's the 1611 AV compared to the 1769 AV)), the KJVO view of "second inspiration" and "advanced revelation".

HankD
 

skanwmatos

New Member
Originally posted by Pastor KevinR:
Seriously, what are your thoughts regarding newscasters? It seems to me, that no matter what part of the US that they're from, they seem to use a standard English, or should I say a standard American English?
One of the most famous is Canadian. And the Brits all think he talks funny.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Exactly. There is no such thing as "standard" English.
Standard English

SYLLABICATION: Stan·dard English
PRONUNCIATION: stndrd
NOUN: The variety of English that is generally acknowledged as the model for the speech and writing of educated speakers.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company.
 

skanwmatos

New Member
So, once again I ask you, "whose English is 'standard'?"

American? East or west?

British? Scots, Irish, Welsh or Cockney?

Australian? Mainland or Tasmanian?

New Zealand? North or South Island?
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The English I use is standard for me. And evidently it must be at least partially standard for you as you respond to my posts in a manner showing you understand my English. I certainly understand YOURS, so yours must be at least partially standard to me.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So, once again I ask you, "whose English is 'standard'?"

American? East or west?

British? Scots, Irish, Welsh or Cockney?

Australian? Mainland or Tasmanian?

New Zealand? North or South Island?
And I answered none that you mentioned except by coincidence, so perhaps in KJVO style I should answer "ALL".

Again, the "standard English" talked about in all the documents I presented is not owned by any one region but is the variety of English which will be best understood by all English speakers.

I have already addressed the fact that among those experts who write concerning SE exists differences of opinion concerning the details.
I even posted a website that dealt with vocabulary and grammar of "standard English".

This ping-pong discussion is fruitless, neither of us will cede anything (especially after I ceded one point in a previous debate and you proclaimed a victory).

In fact the very underlying thesis has been lost in the discussion.

In 1611 the KJV was the "standardized" biblish of the day to be read and understood by English speaking subjects of the Crown worldwide in the churches (and the homes of those who could both afford a copy and had the ability to read).

Today in 2001 a whole new language demographic has presented itself as opposed to 1611. The KJV biblish only adds to the present day problem of the proliferation of English speaking cultures along with the trend of English becoming the "lingua franca" in the world today of the 21st century.

The KJV is becoming more and more difficult to read for native English speakers not "churched" and even worst for those who speak english as a second language.

Personally the NKJV seems to me to be the solution. However even though it is TR based the KJVO (second-inspiration, advanced revelation kind) won't accept it but then they usually don't need to being happy with what they have.

HankD
 

skanwmatos

New Member
So "standard English" is an idealization that does not exist as an actual language. Just as I have been saying all along. It doesn't exist.
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Originally posted by skanwmatos:
So "standard English" is an idealization that does not exist as an actual language. Just as I have been saying all along. It doesn't exist.
How could you declare a language English unless there were some sort of standard?
 

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
Okay. I understand. But I am serious when I did ask the question. I am curious at how they would declare a word English or something else.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So "standard English" is an idealization that does not exist as an actual language. Just as I have been saying all along. It doesn't exist.
After several pages of redefinition and fine tuning of your position, you have convinced yourself of a certain stand but no one else I suspect.

HankD
 
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