The oversell of pre-trib rapture

[church mouse guy]

With new evidence coming to light--perhaps due to the spread of information on the internet--there are more and more skeptics against the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.

Since this is a secondary doctrine anyway, why don't we emphasize that there will be a Second Advent and that there is an unimportant division on this subject. And if one must delve into the subject, then why not present the post-trib doctrine at least in passing? Maybe it is just me but I am getting very weary of the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture invading so many sermons and theological debates. If you believe pre-trib, God bless you, but do you have to mention it everytime someone turns a page of Scripture? There are a lot of us who think that the pre-trib doctrine is totally without foundation but otherwise we believe the Baptist Faith & Message as is.

 

[StefanM]

I see no reason for the BFM to be any more specific than it already is. This is definitely NOT an essential issue.

 

[UZThD]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
[QB] With new evidence coming to light--perhaps due to the spread of information on the internet--there are more and more skeptics against the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.

Since this is a secondary doctrine anyway, why don't we emphasize that there will be a Second Advent and that there is an unimportant division on this subject.


===


Because then my former pastor's novels will not sell as well

 

[Optamill]

"There are a lot of us who think that the pre-trib doctrine is totally without foundation but otherwise we believe the Baptist Faith & Message as is."

You make it sound as though pre-tribism is part of the BFM. Not true. This doctrine arose among the Catholic Apostolic Church and Plymouth Brethren in the 1820s.

 

[church mouse guy]

Sorry for the ambiguity. It was unintentional. I thank you for pointing it out to me, Optamill!

What I should have said, Optamill, was that a lot of us think that the pre-trib doctrine is totally without foundation. We are not heretics and we believe every word of the BFM as is, even the section on Last Things, which kindly says, "God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end...."

But we just tire of hearing and reading the pre-trib speculations and then without even a nod in the direction of post-trib doctrine.

Did I solve the problem or not, Optamill?

 

[Optamill]

church mouse guy,

You clarified your position quite well. I never miss an opportunity to remind people that pre-tribism is a Johnny-come-lately teaching and has never been a required doctrine among Southern Baptists.

 

[JGrubbs]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
Since this is a secondary doctrine anyway, why don't we emphasize that there will be a Second Advent and that there is an unimportant division on this subject.

I was taught the pre-trib rapture my entire life, but after studying the subject from the Word on my own in the last few years I am leaning more towards a pre-wrath rapture. I believe that the timing of pre-trip vs. mid-trib, pre-wrath and post-trib is a very important division. While I don't believe that holding to any of these views will make one a heretic, I do believe that if people continue to believe the pre-trib rapture they will be in for a shock and even possibly misled if one of the other three views are the right view and they are here when the Antichrist comes into power. I believe many "churches" in the end times will be okay with following the guidlines and regulations of the Antichrist because they will be waiting for their escape and not realize they are in the tribulation. They could very easily join in with the rest of the world in the persecution of those members of the Body of Christ who recognize the Antichrist and refuse to follow.

 

[church mouse guy]

Hmmm. We seem to be good friends on a lot of issues and not so good friends on other issues, JGrubbs. You are a smart man and know how to work these computers. Let me give you a post-trib link of one the older and more-widely known sources. By the way, I agree with the thrust of your statement and have written along those lines also. I am just giving you this link as a token of friendship for your nice post:

http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/miscellaneous/smith_01.htm

 

[JGrubbs]

CMG, thanks for the link!! I will definitely add it to my list of studies in the coming days. I'm sure if we look hard enough we can find other issues that we can be on the same side of the debate on.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The BB now has way to many Eschatological topics.
I'm spending more time on Eschatology than
working

I'll be responding to these and other matters
at this location:
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3350.html
Click it and check it out.

(BTW, the non-baptists seem to be more
congenial than baptists anyway )

 

[church mouse guy]

Ed, tell me if you think that preachers should say that they believe pre-trib but they know some people believe post-trib?

 

[Baptist Bro]

church mouse guy,

Let's go further. Preachers should acknowledge that most of the early Southern Baptists were not even premillennial.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by church mouse guy:
Ed, tell me if you think that preachers should say that they believe pre-trib but they know some people believe post-trib?

My answer to your question can be found at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3350.html

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by Baptist Bro:
church mouse guy,

Let's go further. Preachers should acknowledge that most of the early Southern Baptists were not even premillennial.

Welcome in, Baptist Bro! Call me cmg--it's less work--

Tell me more about what the SBC believed before the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture washed over the country....

 

[church mouse guy]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by church mouse guy:
Ed, tell me if you think that preachers should say that they believe pre-trib but they know some people believe post-trib?

My answer to your question can be found at:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3350.html </font>[/QUOTE]Well, I agree with you about the BFM. I just have started turning off broadcasts when they spend too much time on the pre-trib doctrine. I just don't believe it at all.

I found your answer, Ed, at your link, but I don't want to debate the question of pre-trib vs post-trib but I just want the high pressure, hard sell of the pre-trib doctrine to ease up. I don't like high pressure.

Here is what you wrote, Ed,

Yes. And vica-versa as well.

The Baptist Faith and Message 2002 says:

X. Last Things

God, in His own time and in His own way, will bring the world to its appropriate end. According to His promise, Jesus Christ will return personally and visibly in glory to the earth; the dead will be raised; and Christ will judge all men in righteousness. The unrighteous will be consigned to Hell, the place of everlasting punishment. The righteous in their resurrected and glorified bodies will receive their reward and will dwell forever in Heaven with the Lord.

This allows pretrib and post-trib and other x-trib positions.
This allows any x-mill postion that does Not spiritualize away the
physical return of Jesus Christ sometime, somehow.

Pastors that are trained to be pastors (in real schools)
should know what the various Eschatological believes are and be
able to explain them. I know i can....

(The graemlin did not copy)

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Baptist Bro:
church mouse guy,

Let's go further. Preachers should acknowledge that most of the early Southern Baptists were not even premillennial.

You are correct. Most 19th Century Southern Baptists were either amillennial or postmillennial. The Abstract of Principles of the initial Southern Baptist Seminary [which I have posted numerous times on this Forum] proclaims a general resurrection and judgment. It was only the introduction of the Scofield Bible that really corrupted the Southern Baptist viewpoint on Last Things.

 

[StefanM]

Either that, or WWI which assassinated all of the optimism that lead to postmillennialism.

 

[church mouse guy]

So, OldRegular, do you think that pre-trib has been oversold? I myself don't mind if the preachers all want to preach that but it does weary me because I just think that it is baseless but I do try to be quiet and be polite and listen and not rock the boat over a little thing like that.