I am both rightly and wrongly accused of many things..."dancing" around an issue is NEVER one of them. I make rather bald assertions OR...I don't "dance" around anything...you are either confused or lying.
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The Parenthesis Church
- Thread starter OldRegular
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I am both rightly and wrongly accused of many things..."dancing" around an issue is NEVER one of them. I make rather bald assertions OR...I don't "dance" around anything...you are either confused or lying.
I am not sure what "ROFG" means....I am trying to be somewhat charitable in what I perceive to be direct insults upon my wife. I love my wife KY. Will you please stop tacitly insulting her? There will come a point that I am no longer capable of abiding certain dispersions upon her or her character. It is no game where I come from to trash a man's wife....Again, I ask you, say to me as you will, you will kindly leave her out of it. I LOVE her KY, she is truly "bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh"...to assault her is to attack a body, to split it in half....Please leave her alone.......Do not make our disagreements about Theology devolve to this level.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You are saying nothing of merit so I must assume you are dancing around or posting meaningless drivel to run out the clock!
See post #18!
Yeshua, don't attempt to explain or correct them about dispensationalism....They want nothing to do with it. There is a reasoned, intelligent and informed "non-dispy" who might actually furnish a reasonable debate on this topic....His screen-name is "AsteriskTom". I disagree with him about a lot of things...but he is a reasonable, informed and intelligent debater who does not engage in such foolishness....He seems to have a VERY limited amount of time to engage us here on such topics....and that kinda sucks...but he would be no party to garbage such as this thread. He knows better. The non-dispy respondents on this thread will argue with and against themselves...let them. They have ZERO interest in what either you or I, or any informed Dispensationalist might suggest as rejoinders to their position. Let them enjoy their orgy...it will go away soon enough.
This is simply stupid OR...wake up and grow up.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Not really. God in the letter to the Ephesians tells us:
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
If you want to cling to your doctrine then dispute the above passages.
The promises made to Israel have been fulfilled in the New Covenant! Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8: 8-11. You might also read Hebrews 8:13 & 12:24 for further edification.
Hebrews 8:13. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 12:24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Then take up your beef with the Apostle Paul. I am simply quoting Scripture. That wall of separation thwt jesus Christ broke down will not be rebuilt. You are making the blood of Jesus Christ of no affect. You would have us believe that God would accept the blood of animals over the blood of Jesus Christ.
Read again what God tells us in Scripture:
Hebrews 9:11-15
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 12:18-24
18. For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
19. And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
20. (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21. And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:}
22. But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
24. And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
You would have all people return to that which made Moses say: I exceedingly fear and quake. You would establish again the endless slaughter of animals and to what purpose? Jesus Christ has already paid the cost of redemption. The above Scripture clearly teach this truth yet you would throw it away.
Now address the question presented in the OP, the dispensationalist doctrine of the parenthesis Church.
Dispy do NOT see the animal sacrifices being made in order to have sins remitted/atoned for, but as memorials to God of isreal, like communion is for jesus today in church!
And God did NOT suddenly decide to have the church start just because isreal rejected yeshua as her Messiah, but he had already ordained that due to their rejection they were to do freely, the Church would usher into this current age of grace, which will be intact until the rapture, and God brings in last 7 years alotted to isreal in daniel, so that isreal can be purified by god for coming messiah!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Song of Solomon & Scofield
Given that dispensationalists insist that the Church is not included in prophecy it is worthwhile to note that the Scofield Bible of 1917 includes the introduction to the Song of Solomon by Scofield, as follows :
Given that dispensationalists insist that the Church is not included in prophecy it is worthwhile to note that the Scofield Bible of 1917 includes the introduction to the Song of Solomon by Scofield, as follows :
“Nowhere in Scripture does the unspiritual mind tread upon ground so mysterious and incomprehensible as in this book, while the saintliest men and women of the ages have found it a source of pure and exquisite delight. That the love of the divine Bridegroom should follow all the analogies of the marriage relation seems evil only to minds so ascetic that martial desire itself seems to them unholy.
The interpretation is twofold: Primarily, the book is the expression of pure marital love as ordained of God in creation, and the vindication of that love as against both asceticism and lust--the two profanations of the holiness of marriage. The secondary and larger interpretation is of Christ, the Son and His heavenly bride, the Church.”
The interpretation is twofold: Primarily, the book is the expression of pure marital love as ordained of God in creation, and the vindication of that love as against both asceticism and lust--the two profanations of the holiness of marriage. The secondary and larger interpretation is of Christ, the Son and His heavenly bride, the Church.”
Of course the remarks by Scofield are an embarrassment to those of dispensational persuasion SO! it is not present in revised versions,:laugh::laugh: perhaps the only thing Scofield was right about!:thumbs::thumbs:Hard to take you seriously with statements like this.
But please consider that this is not a good comparison. The Lord's supper is specifically referred to as a memorial ("in remembrance of Me").
By telling contrast, the offerings in Ezekiel's chapters in question are never referred to as "memorial". They are commandments that are still actually concerned with sin.
In all but one of these mentions of "offering" - 48 of them - they are referred to as either "sin offering", "trespass offering", "meat offering", or "burnt offering".
IOW these sacrifices are pointing back, not to Christ's sacrifice - not a word of this (an omission which is also significant) - but to the original Levitical commandments.
This system never happened in the OT of course. But neither could it happen in the future. There are too many blessed inexorable changes that have been achieved through Christ, for the situation to roll back so dramatically. It would be, as I said before, a profound - and very tragic - anachronism.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You say that but the Scripture you use to support that view states otherwise as asterisktom has so clearly pointed out.
Where does Scripture show that?
Where does Scripture show a pre-trib Rapture.
What is this about Daniel and 7 years?
Jesus Christ came to save sinners. No purification by man can achieve that, Israel had 1500 years to obey God and failed miserably.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
It is obvious that the dispensationalists on this Forum do not like the OP and refuse to address the point made there; the heresy of the ("parenthesis") Church.
I don't care whether you take me seriously or not but you should take the dispensational heresy of the ("parenthesis") Church seriously.
If you don't like what Scofield said about the Song of Solomon then throw your old Scofield away and get a new edition. Political correctness demanded that his introduction be removed.
What we do not like is the manner in which you present your opposition. You present yourself as one who is more concerned about winning a debate rather than the truth found in scripture.
What makes you think we all have Scofield Bibles, and that we all agree with Scofield. A bit of a sweeping generalization isn't it--just another logical fallacy.
I was raised a dispy and it makes the most sense to me. I am open to learning alternative theology in this area. However, your tactic of claiming dispensationalists believe in a parenthesis church is ridiculous. It's a strawman argument.
When Christ said,
18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
that sounds like an original plan to me and not improvisation.
First you compare dispensationalism to a cult, merely because it became popular in the 19th century at the same time that Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, and Christian Science arose. This is guilt by association.
Secondly you blithely say, "Dispensationalists denies the church is in prophecy" and dispys believe "because the Jews rejected Christ God started the Church instead" and "the church is often referred to as the 'mystery parenthesis' form of the Kingdom." I've never heard any dispy say this, ever.
In short, you are making stuff up and then shooting it down. Mandym is correct that mischaracterizing a person's belief and then 'proving' it wrong is a common tactic of Calvinists. (Non-cals are guilty of it as well.)
Since I don't believe the Church was a parentheses in God's plan I'm not listening to you.
Really? Scofield Bibles? How many people you think have a Scofield Bible these days?
When you begin to treat other people with some respect and are willing to communicate the views they themselves espouse in a way that they agree with then you will have some reasonable responses and some actual respect yourself. Until then you are just acting like a jerk.
THIS article should help you OR. The "parenthesis" is not heresy, although I don't like to call it that.
69 weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled, but the 70th week is yet to be fulfilled. This is the 7 year tribulation declared against "Thy people" (the Jews).
The prophetic clock stopped (so to speak) at the end of the 69th week, and will begin again at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. The period between these weeks is called the times of the Gentiles, in which God is building His church. Also it is called the age of grace. But it will end, the clock will once again start to tick and at the end of the 70th week, God will fulfill all the promises to Israel that have not as yet been fulfilled.
This is not heresy. That is a very harsh judgement.
69 weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled, but the 70th week is yet to be fulfilled. This is the 7 year tribulation declared against "Thy people" (the Jews).
The prophetic clock stopped (so to speak) at the end of the 69th week, and will begin again at the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. The period between these weeks is called the times of the Gentiles, in which God is building His church. Also it is called the age of grace. But it will end, the clock will once again start to tick and at the end of the 70th week, God will fulfill all the promises to Israel that have not as yet been fulfilled.
This is not heresy. That is a very harsh judgement.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
NO! You just won't face the truth. The dispensational heresy of a "parenthesis" Church cannot be found in the Bible!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
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