The Passion Poll

[Hardsheller]

Originally posted by rbrent:
Vaspers wrote: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Acts 2:22-24 says exactly who is responsible for Jesus death. Not just Jews. That's Nazi talk and you know it. It was people of Israel, with the help of Gentiles, according to God's plan of salvation. That's what this scripture says. Check it out.

Vaspers, I did check it out in my KJV and I don't see any Gentiles in the verses you cited.

Nazi talk? Have you lost your mind?

I quoted the scriptures in this thread and in another thread in which God says the Jews are responsible for the death of His Son - "ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain" Acts 2:23 and

"let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified..." Acts 2:36

I think its about time some of you folks forsake your preconceived ideas about what the scriptures are presumed to teach and bow your stubborn will to what the scripture actually says on this issue.

Don't be engulfed in Mel-Mania and jump on the Catholic bandwagon.

Stick with what the scripture says. </font>[/QUOTE]rbrent - try Acts 4:27 in your KJV for a reference to the Gentiles in connection with the crucifision.

 

[rbrent]

Thanks Hardsheller, for the reference in Acts 4:27.

The point I and others have made is that there is a strange ambivalence among professing Christians when it comes to believing what the scripture actually says about who was responsible for the crucifixion - God and His apostles clearly tagged the "Jews" as responsible.

Yet folks read the verses which actually say that and then insist that "we are all responsible."

The thing that brought the convicting power of the Holy Ghost upon the multitudes in Jerusalem was when Peter (Acts 2:14-37) and the other apostles preached to the Jews that they - the Jews - had killed their Messiah and yet, God was still willing to save them.

The Jews who heard the scriptural message that they were responsible for killing their Messiah, got convicted.

"Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

 

[vaspers]

rbrent, Romans 5:6 "...in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (NKJV)

I believe it was Adam and Eve who killed Christ, meaning, they were the ones ultimately responsible.

If they, and the rest of us never sinned, He would not have had to die for all humanity.

It would have been Norwegians or Buddhists or whatever who "killed" Christ if He had been sent to them as the chosen People and they hated all His HEALINGS (Jesus was "charimatic" and "fundamental" and practically anything but "institutional")and doctrines making the established religious leaders look bad.

 

[blackbird]

Vaspers---and rbbrent---

The Jews and Gentiles of the day ultimately were responsible---"Pilate going the way of the world" and giving Jesus over---guilty Caiphius---guilty

But us???

Did you know that when Jesus was being crucified that at the very same moment in time----untold billions of others were also being crucified?? IOW---how could I possibly be responsible---when I was being crucified at the same time----"I am crucified with Christ----ohhhhhh, do you see??

Plus---name anywhere in Scripture where any Apostle---Peter, John, Paul---any of them---took the blame----over and over their message to the world was "whom YOU crucified"---not "whom WE crucified"

Brother David

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Originally posted by blackbird:
Vaspers---and rbbrent---

The Jews and Gentiles of the day ultimately were responsible---"Pilate going the way of the world" and giving Jesus over---guilty Caiphius---guilty

But us???

Did you know that when Jesus was being crucified that at the very same moment in time----untold billions of others were also being crucified?? IOW---how could I possibly be responsible---when I was being crucified at the same time----"I am crucified with Christ----ohhhhhh, do you see??

Plus---name anywhere in Scripture where any Apostle---Peter, John, Paul---any of them---took the blame----over and over their message to the world was "whom YOU crucified"---not "whom WE crucified"

Brother David

n then we have John Piper's message, that it was the Father who killed the Son.

 

[Larry in Tennessee]

Originally posted by rbrent:
There is the scriptural view that the Jews are guilty of crucifying Christ - numerous scriptures cited on a different thread - in spite of the pc view held by so many today that 'the sins of us all' nailed Jesus to the cross...

What difference does it make who was responsible for the death of Christ, when it was God's plan for our salvation? The ones who were actually responsible were merely the ones He used to carry out His purpose.

Originally posted by vaspers:
It would have been Norwegians or Buddhists or whatever who "killed" Christ if He had been sent to them as the chosen People and they hated all His HEALINGS (Jesus was "charimatic" and "fundamental" and practically anything but "institutional")and doctrines making the established religious leaders look bad.

Interesting vaspers. Our pastor said basically the same thing Sunday (you didn't happen to be in Tenn on Sunday did you

), that the reason the Norwegians weren't responsible is because they weren't there

 

[vaspers]

THis "norwegian" thing is from Mel Gibson interview w/ Diane Sawyer who said Jews killed Jesus, no Norwegians were there. A smart aleck sarcastic remark from Mr. "Spiritual" Movie Maker.

I was not in Tennesse, but was born in Ft. Knox Army Hospital in Kentucky. Is that close enuff, bro? My aunt's from Tennessee.

 

[rbrent]

The point is - so many professing Christians these days refuse to believe what the scripture says about the crucifixion.

They prefer to sugarcoat their message so no one group is held responsible.

The apostles didn't crucify Christ. They didn't take the PC view so many of you are taking.

They didn't feel a sense of guilt for crucifying Jesus - even though He was dying for their sins too.

The scriptures don't take the PC view either.

Some of you folks need to do some serious re-evaluating of your belief systems.

You willing reject what the scripture clearly says and replace what the scripture says with your own conjectures.

You might get by with that down here but that won't pass muster at the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by vaspers:
A smart aleck sarcastic remark from Mr. "Spiritual" Movie Maker.

Wonder, then, why Mr. Spiritual Movie Maker felt the need to include:

John 19:10 Then Pilate said to Him, "Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?" 11 Jesus answered, "You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above. Therefore the one who delivered Me to you has the greater sin."

Diane