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The Perfect Church

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Of course, there is no perfect church. In most parts of the United States we are spoiled. Depending on where you live you have multiple choices available based on theological convictions and/or personal preferences. Do you have a Charismatic streak? There's a church for that. Full stage-worthy concert during worship? There's a church for that. Traditional hymns and suit and tie as the norm? There's a church for that. Calvinistic with Dispensationalism or Calvinistic with Covenant Theology? There is a church for that. Believe someone can lose their salvation? There's for church that. I can go on, and on, and on ad infinitum, ad nauseum but I think the point is made. The question I want to ask is what is the bare minimum you require from a church? If you live in Greater New York City, St. Louis, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Nashville et. al you have more choices than Carter has little liver pills (I love that saying. My grandfather used it all the time when I was kid!). But what if you live in a rural area and it's not feasible to drive 90 minutes to find a suitable church? Say the only church is Charismatic or believes a person can lose their salvation and you do not hold to either of those belief systems. Do you attend? Stay home? Watch online? In short - where do you draw your line in the sand?
 

Ascetic X

Member
I have wondered about this predicament many times. Bare minimum would be gospel sermons, expository Bible preaching, Bible study groups, Sunday school for adults, prayer meetings, hopefully men’s groups and an evangelism program. Sunday services only is disappointing.

I have attended Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, COGIC, Nazarene, Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Assembly of God churches. Many non-Baptist churches are woke, liberal, no gospel. One black Baptist church was nice, but in men’s group, they had us watch The Chosen, and that was very annoying, with all the bizarre fiction additions and distortions.

Not yet finding a church I feel comfortable in, I listen to Christian radio sermons, read my Bible and devout books. My deceased wife was solid Baptist, but we had bad experiences in two Baptist churches, so after visiting many churches, finally we gave up the search years ago. Now that I am all alone, I have again started searching. I wish she was still here to help me. I must say it is terrible not having a church family.
 
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Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hi @Ascetic X
Welcome to the BB. :) I think it's really important to be a member of a church (Hebrews 10:25), and I'm sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences. As a Brit, I can't really advise you, but I do suggest that you not be too picky. There is a saying that if you ever find a perfect church, don't join it because if you do it won't be perfect anymore!
I really hope you find somewhere sound where you feel welcome and can settle in and serve.
 

Ascetic X

Member
Hi @Ascetic X
Welcome to the BB. :) I think it's really important to be a member of a church (Hebrews 10:25), and I'm sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences. As a Brit, I can't really advise you, but I do suggest that you not be too picky. There is a saying that if you ever find a perfect church, don't join it because if you do it won't be perfect anymore!
I really hope you find somewhere sound where you feel welcome and can settle in and serve.
Thank you for being so kind Martin Marprelate.

I met my wife of 21 years when I was asked to teach a Southern Baptist junior high Sunday school class, and Andrea was assigned to be my assistant. We fell in love quickly and she was a perfect, godly, thoroughly Christian woman. I called her my favorite theologian.

But after a while, the pastor started acting bizarre and we left. We visited many churches, but eventually gave up. I blame myself for not continuing to search, I feel horrible about it. The search has resumed now.
 

Marooncat79

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Thank you for being so kind Martin Marprelate.

I met my wife of 21 years when I was asked to teach a Southern Baptist junior high Sunday school class, and Andrea was assigned to be my assistant. We fell in love quickly and she was a perfect, godly, thoroughly Christian woman. I called her my favorite theologian.

But after a while, the pastor started acting bizarre and we left. We visited many churches, but eventually gave up. I blame myself for not continuing to search, I feel horrible about it. The search has resumed now.
Good man
 

jakethebaptist

New Member
I have had to "look for" a church to attend on three occasions in my life. The rest of the times it was due to taking ministry positions, going with my parents, etc. When I moved to Colorado, my problem in the city was there was such a small number of potential churches. When I moved to Lynchburg, VA, it was the opposite - too many good churches to choose from. Only one of the churches I visited and considered was rejected for any sort of doctrinal issue. I've not been in any situation where there wasn't a doctrinally aligned church within driving distance, even during my 5-month stay in rural west Ireland!
 

Alan Dale Gross

Active Member
Of course, there is no perfect church.
I noticed the word 'Baptist' wasn't included in the O.P. or any Scriptures for that matter.

But the idea of "The Perfect Church" is a great one.

What if we were to locate and observe a church that had The New Testament teachings of the churches, Doctrinally, Practically, and Organizationally that in the basic, most foundational sense, had things in ORDER, with no urgent need to add anything new, or take away from it some glaring error? Then, we will have found a church that is 'perfect', by that definition of not necessarily requiring anything added to her that is in a New Testament church, or anything removed from her teachings.

We would have found a church of the Lord Jesus Christ is what we would find.

Have you ever prayed and sought God's Face to know and be led to one to be baptized by the Authority of God, in answer and obedience to His Command?

If we then are so inclined to ask God about it and search His Word, I believe there is only one conclusion to come to regarding "What a Church Is".

Do you know how the Bible defines a church?

Do you know what a church is?

Before one could safely search out a New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ, they would need to first determine what God would have them understand a church is, according to what God says and not according to what man might think a church might be.

My brother, Tom Ross, who I've known since the early eighties, asks the question in this short article (with its full length in the 'articles' section below).

WHAT IS A CHURCH?
by Tom Ross

“And when they had Preached the Word in Perga, they went down into Attalia: And thence sailed to Antioch, from whence they had been recommended to the Grace of God for the work which they fulfilled. And when they were come, and had GATHERED THE CHURCH TOGETHER (Emphasis mine, TWR), they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how He had Opened the Door of faith unto the Gentiles. And there they abode long time with the Disciples” (Acts 14:25-28).

"Paul and Barnabas were Gospel preaching missionaries who were called to the work by the Holy Spirit and sent out by the church at Antioch (Acts 13:1-3). At the end of their first Missionary Journey, we find them returning to the church that had Authorized them to do the work (at Antioch) for the express purpose of rehearsing, or giving a report of the work that they had done.

"I think it is significant to note that they did not sail to a “universal, invisible church” to deliver their report. Paul and Barnabas did not summon the elect of all ages to deliver their report.

"
Rather, they returned to Antioch and “GATHERED THE CHURCH TOGETHER” to deliver the report. Biblically speaking a church of the Lord Jesus Christ, made up of baptized believers, must necessarily be a local, visible congregation that can gather together in a definite location.

"Paul and Barnabas were sent out by a real church, and thus they delivered their Missionary report to a real church made up of real baptized Disciples who had gathered for worship.
"There was nothing universal or invisible about the church at Antioch. Thus, a church in the New Testament is a local and visible congregation (assembly) of baptized believers who have covenanted together under the Headship of Jesus Christ to carry out the Great Commission.

"It should be noted at the outset that the Biblical teaching of what a New Testament church is, is not at all what Catholics or Protestants have taught and believed through the centuries. Those who believe in the scriptural teaching of what a New Testament church is are in a decided minority.

A CHURCH DEFINED BIBLICALLY

"It is important that we get our definition of what a church is from the Scriptures, rather than the opinions of Catholic and Protestant theologians.

"The inspired writers of the New Testament text never once used the word Catholic (katholikos, the Greek word for universal) or invisible in conjunction with the word church (ekklesia in the Greek).

"The Christians of the first century
knew absolutely nothing about
a universal or an invisible church.

"I love the quote by the late Elder Davis Huckabee who wrote:

“The Greek words ekklesia (assembly)
and katholikos (general or universal) are mutually exclusive;

"the former, ekklesia (assembly),
is expressive of locality and a restricted assembly,

"while the latter, katholikos (general or universal)
is expressive of universality and all inclusiveness.

"Not only so, but katholikos is not even a New Testament word, nor is it to be found in the Greek Old Testament. It made its appearance sometime after the First Century when it first began to be applied to the so-called general (katholikos) Epistles.


Katholikos (general or universal) was never applied by Inspiration to any churches.”

"The Roman Catholic theologian, Augustine (353-430 A.D.) really set forth and solidified the unscriptural notion of a universal, visible church that consisted of every member of the Catholic church who submitted to the authority of its visible head, the Pope. Augustine’s version of the church was stated in the Fourth Century and was an attempt to define a church as a single, world wide entity that a person had to belong to in order to be saved..."

"Later, after Martin Luther took his decisive stand against some of the errors of Catholicism, Protestants had to come up with a new meaning for the word church in order to justify their split from Rome..."

"Sadly, due to the influence of C.I. Scofield’s study Bible and the advent of Fundamentalism in the early 1900’s many Baptists embraced the heresies of the universal, invisible church theory. Many Baptists hold to version of the church branch theory and/or the idea of a local body within a universal body. When they want to appear to be ecumenical and acceptable to Protestants they talk of the big universal invisible church, but when it comes to the collection of tithes, offerings, and a weekly salary they appeal to the local church. I think a lot of Baptist preachers would be cured of the universal invisible church theory if they had to depend on the big, mythical, spooky church for a paycheck!

"For the sake of time and space we will not examine every time the word ekklesia is translated church or assembly in our English Bible (KJV). For a detailed study I would refer the reader to a book I wrote entitled Teachings on the Local Church where I examine all 114 times the word ekklesia is translated church, churches, or assembly in the New Testament, including the 18 times it is used in a generic, institutional, or abstract sense..."

See 'article' attached, What is a Church by Tom Ross.

His very, very, very well written (an 'easy read'), systematic, and enlightening book, Teachings on The Local Church is informative about all aspects of what a church is that is like the kind Jesus Built in the New Testament and like all of the other New Testament churches which came from Jesus first church, at Jerusalem and how they operate to do the Work of God, i.e., God's Business.
 

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