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The Perseverance of the Saints
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
....methinks 'never never perish' is one heckuva 'preservation'.... wish my canned green beans and tomatoes and frozen peppers would 'never never perish'...
Felipe Rios
Member
Hey, thanks for responding. I'm curious what the difference is between denying the faith and denying Christ. To me it's redundant and it would be along these lines, "I no longer believe Jesus Christ is Jehovah, but was just a man like the rest of us".
Is that what you mean?
Preservatives get a bad rap these days.
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
The Bible says that those who are saved will overcome the world, and by obedience and CHASTENING they will be progressively sanctified. But "perseverance of the saints" is found nowhere in the Bible as some saints do not "persevere". That's why there is the CHASTENING from God. All Biblical stuff. . I'm not "queasy" about fatalism: I reject it entirely. "Election" is a Biblical doctrine which has to do with our service as purposed by God from the beginning. It has nothing to do with God predetermining the saved to Heaven or the lost to Hell.
In my estimation, perseverance means that works of obedience are actually required in order to lay claim to eternal life, which doesn't come until the end.
Preservation, on the other hand, means that abstaining from disobedience is required in order to maintain eternal life
In the first, God is working in us to make sure we do all that we must do in order to secure eternal life which has only been put on our account at this point.
In the second, God is working in and around us two guide us around the pitfalls which would separate us from the eternal life we already have
I'm with Hank. We need neither. We have eternal life and there is absolutely no possibility of securing it later or forfeiting it now - whether hypothetical or actual
Preservation, on the other hand, means that abstaining from disobedience is required in order to maintain eternal life
In the first, God is working in us to make sure we do all that we must do in order to secure eternal life which has only been put on our account at this point.
In the second, God is working in and around us two guide us around the pitfalls which would separate us from the eternal life we already have
I'm with Hank. We need neither. We have eternal life and there is absolutely no possibility of securing it later or forfeiting it now - whether hypothetical or actual
1Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Jude 1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
The election of God in the scriptures refers only those the Elect, as we are indeed predestined by God unto eternal life in jesus, and the lost are permitted to stay just as they desire to stay, lost in darkness and sins!
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
False teaching sir. The Bible says we are predestinated to the adoption of children and to conform to the image of Christ. . It means that God is going to conform us to the image of Christ by His own design and process.And that is NOT determined on how WE "persevere". On the contrary; conforming us to His image all God's doing. But nowhere does the Bible say "predestined unto eternal life".
How do you see this preservation work out?
Predestined to an inheritance among the saints too.
None of those mean predestined to be saved from hell, which is the common misunderstanding
We are saved by grace and we are kept by grace (preserved). All of God, none of me.
How does it work that we're kept by grace?
Is there some way that we could blow it without being preserved? Somehow lose our Salvation if it weren't for God keeping us?
Without God's grace we would all be lost.
Were it not for God we would all be lost.
that's not what I'm asking.
Are you saying that without God's grace, we would all become lost a second time? If so, through what means?
What is it that God has to preserve us from, or from doing? And how does he work such preservation?
Sounds vague and mystical