The place for women in the Church, volume 3...

[saturneptune]

Amy choose the authority of God and not a rebellious Pastor. You have a clear word from God. Believe it! Don't try and fix it or change it. Don't trust any man who tries to over ride God's word with parlor tricks because this is how satan works by trying to make people believe that God does not mean what He says. The scripture does not say:
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence (unless she or some Pastor can figure a way around it.) Don't fall to the garden temptation, becoming Eve, and the rebellion of these false teachers today.

This is exactly why the church as a whole, particularly the local church, is in such disarray today, is people who do not understand Scripture, and put their warped opinions before the Word of God. This kind of thinking makes a Pharisee mentality out of every verse dealing with women or the relationship between men, women, and the church, and leaves out any element of love and respect as Christ loved the church.

I will back up what brother Tom said. There is not one person in our church (and it is very conservative) that subscribes to the nonsense in the quoted post.

 

[stilllearning]

This is exactly why the church as a whole, particularly the local church, is in such disarray today, is people who do not understand Scripture, and put their warped opinions before the Word of God. This kind of thinking makes a Pharisee mentality out of every verse dealing with women or the relationship between men, women, and the church, and leaves out any element of love and respect as Christ loved the church.

I will back up what brother Tom said. There is not one person in our church (and it is very conservative) that subscribes to the nonsense in the quoted post.

It is clear, that there are differing degrees of conservativeism.

It doesn’t matter if the whole world says that the Bible is outdated or wrong;
That doesn’t make it so.
--------------------------------------------------
God’s Word, says what it means and means what it says.

 

[jaigner]

It is clear, that there are differing degrees of conservativeism [sic].

It doesn’t matter if the whole world says that the Bible is outdated or wrong;
That doesn’t make it so.

That's correct, but we can't superimpose the ancient meaning on the letter of Scripture on the Spirit of it today. The Bible is still wildly relevant and applicable, but we get into trouble when we jump straight from reading to application. There is nothing more dangerous than Scripture that is applied without being interpreted.

That's what the problem is with passages like this. We have to first figure out what it said in its original context. Then, we have to prayerfully and carefully interpret its use for us today. That isn't something we can throw around like a football, but we also can't assume that every letter must be applied today as it was then. For instance, my guess is that women in your church don't always pray with their heads covered. My guess is also that men don't always have short hair. Those passages are still applicable, but we don't follow their letter today.

 

[RAdam]

That's correct, but we can't superimpose the ancient meaning on the letter of Scripture on the Spirit of it today. The Bible is still wildly relevant and applicable, but we get into trouble when we jump straight from reading to application. There is nothing more dangerous than Scripture that is applied without being interpreted.

That's what the problem is with passages like this. We have to first figure out what it said in its original context. Then, we have to prayerfully and carefully interpret its use for us today. That isn't something we can throw around like a football, but we also can't assume that every letter must be applied today as it was then. For instance, my guess is that women in your church don't always pray with their heads covered. My guess is also that men don't always have short hair. Those passages are still applicable, but we don't follow their letter today.

We should. The woman's head covering is her hair. Men should always have short hair. It may not be followed, but it should be.

You speak of interpreting a passage. We interpret prophetic passages. We don't interpret clear epistle passages. There is nothing to interpret here, really. It says that woman are not to teach nor usurp authority over a man. It cannot get any clearer than that.

 

[jaigner]

We should. The woman's head covering is her hair. Men should always have short hair. It may not be followed, but it should be.

You speak of interpreting a passage. We interpret prophetic passages. We don't interpret clear epistle passages. There is nothing to interpret here, really. It says that woman are not to teach nor usurp authority over a man. It cannot get any clearer than that.

We have to interpret everything. Any solid Biblical scholar will tell you that. Some passages are easier than others, though.

 

[RAdam]

So, do you interpret this passage: "Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified."

 

[jaigner]

So, do you interpret this passage: "Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified."

Yes, but that's narrative, and generally easy to interpret, unless the text is especially difficult.

With Paul, we're looking at a more complex scenario. He was writing to a specific people at a specific time in a specific place. The epistles don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[RAdam]

Yes, but that's narrative, and generally easy to interpret, unless the text is especially difficult.

So, when you interpreted it, what did you find out about the passage? Give us your interpretation.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi jaigner

When you said.......

“He was writing to a specific people at a specific time in a specific place. The epistles don't exist in a vacuum.”

..........This reminded me of what the Mormons say;.......
“Romans was written to the Romans, but the book of Mormon, is for American Christians!”

 

[gb93433]

There is nothing more dangerous than Scripture that is applied without being interpreted.

I would say that without love is the most dangerous and useless. Without love they are nothing more than a noisemaker.

Scripture that is not interpreted correctly is abolishing scripture and Jesus declared when He said that he did not come to abolish the law and the prophets.

 

[saturneptune]

It is clear, that there are differing degrees of conservativeism.

It doesn’t matter if the whole world says that the Bible is outdated or wrong;
That doesn’t make it so.
--------------------------------------------------
God’s Word, says what it means and means what it says.

Yes, the Bible means what it says, not what your opinion of what it says.

 

[jaigner]

Yes, the Bible means what it says, not what your opinion of what it says.

That's the issue here. There are a lot of people who are holding onto a conventional and dogmatic truth so tightly with their own hands that they are very defensive about other points of view.

Get to know people with differing opinions. Listen to sermons of preachers you clash with. Find some lectures and immerse yourself in all kinds of evangelical scholarship. You will be better for it, and you might find you have more in common than you think will all of us God-fearing, Bible-believing, prayerful evangelicals who happen to be egalitarian in our stance on gender.

 

[John Toppass]

That's the issue here. There are a lot of people who are holding onto a conventional and dogmatic truth so tightly with their own hands that they are very defensive about other points of view.

Get to know people with differing opinions. Listen to sermons of preachers you clash with. Find some lectures and immerse yourself in all kinds of evangelical scholarship. You will be better for it, and you might find you have more in common than you think will all of us God-fearing, Bible-believing, prayerful evangelicals who happen to be egalitarian in our stance on gender.

The real problem is the folks that diligently interpret the scripture and then decide that God has changed His mind and it just so happens to agree with what they think the scriptures are saying now.