THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

[Bro. Curtis]

Thanx...

Until next time...Hi AITB!!!

Someday you will have to tell us the secret of your nametag.

I will sincerely try to pray and be a little more uplifting in my posts, not just with you, but with everyone. I got in a little trouble up in the general discussions area last night, and made some people I respect angry at me. But I don't think anyone here has never posted something they don't regret, except maybe Barnabas. Perhaps Clint. Maybe even Helen, but only those three.

 

[AITB]

Hi!!!

Fwiw, I'm not angry with you.

My name means
Accepted In The Beloved

It's from Eph 1:6 in the NKJV:

Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.

'accepted' in the NKJV doesn't mean what it often means today in common usage i.e. meeting the minimum standard. It means 100% accepted. Like you got 100% on the test because Jesus answered it for you . Not that you just got the passmark!

I've mentioned what it means before but you mustta missed it, Mr Curtis. Have a fun day!

AITB

[ August 07, 2002, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

[Abiyah]

I kept my children in private school until two
out-of-state moves put is in places where this
was not feasible. I even home-schooled for a
short period of time but reallized that I did not
have the education to continue. I think that
private school is the best option for students,
if the home-schooler is not prepared with a
solid background of college math, English,
history, science, etc. I know that many would
disagree; I am just stating an opinion.

However, my son-in-law was educated in a
place where public education was absolutely
top-notch and far from godless. (Sorry,
folks--it shalll remain nameless! It needs
protection from those who would destroy it.)
Just before their son became old enough to
start kindergarten, they moved back there,
and my son-in-law took a job in the system
as a teacher.

Although he cannot be the first to speak of
his beliefs (because there was problem at
one time in the system and the rule had to be
adhered to), if a student is the first to bring up
the subject, he can speak freely. He keeps a
Bible on his desk to encourage that, and all
the students and faculty know he is a believer.

I have been to their school concerts, and they
often sing and play songs right out of ordinary
hymnals and songs used for church choirs and
orchestras. One of the instructors purposely
warms the students up before their concerts by
having them do such songs as "Praise God
From Whom All Blessing Flow" when all the
audience can clearly hear them from behind
their still-closed stage curtain.

A teacher in their system who does not believe
and teach Creation is a rare bird indeed. While
they must use certain books, unacceptable
teaching is explained, thus giving the students
both sides of such issues, with answers.

My daughter would be nuts to take them from
this public school system, but I doubt that there
are many moree like it.

 

[AITB]

The Christmas before last both teachers of my kids (who were then in Kindergarten and 2nd grade) let me go in and tell the Christmas story to their classes.

Both teachers said they were moved by hearing it again and at least one had tears in her eyes.

What our kids learn in school is somewhat up to us and how they interpret what they are taught there, is largely up to us.

Speaking for myself, I am perfectly happy if my kids don't sing hymns in school but sing a lot of songs about respecting one another and being kind to one other. I see that as very Biblical.

They will sing hymns at church. If they are learning at school the "love others" part of "love God and love others" I think that's wonderful. I'm happy for them to learn the overt 'love God' part elsewhere. Although, I think the two are quite linked, in fact.

AITB

 

[Farmer's Wife]

Mr. Curtis, keeps standing FIRM! We need more men like you to BOLDLY stand for truth without trying to sugar coat everything!

I attended a very small government school..there were only 13 in my graduating class. We didn't have many discipline problems, some of the teachers claimed to be Christians, the pledge and prayer was recited every morning before classes began. Sounds ideal...doesn't it?! Well, let me tell you, it was ALL LIP SERVICE...rituals! Sure, evolution may have been taught as a supposed 'theory'...but guess how TRUE CREATION was taught? IT WAS NOT EVEN MENTIONED!!! So, those students who never went to church were indoctrinated with the thought that they came from a monkey! And, those of us who knew the TRUTH....seeds of doubt were sown in our minds!

Mr. Curtis, is right...more times than nought, the government school system is alot like Sodom and the Godly children remain silent like Lot for fear of being ridiculed. Meanwhile, the worldly children are BOLDLY influencing 'babes in Christ' day in and day out.

Should 'under God' be removed from the pledge in the government school system?....Count me in the seemingly minority who agrees that we should not have a government brainwashing system and that parents should take back their God-given responsibility of training their own children.

 

[Abiyah]

Farmer's Wife -

I was "educated" from 7th through 12th grade in
the St. Louis, Missouri, city public school
system, which in those years left much to be
desired for both sinner and saint. Through
those years, I had three memorable instructors
who were true teachers, although I would even
argue against including one of those in my list.
8o)

But the most memorable teacher was one I
loved. I would stay after class and talk to her
until the next bus. She was probably the only
adult I respected then. She once confided in
me that she had been a nun but had had a hard
time with something they had demanded of her.
Tthe result was a nervous break-down, which
put her in the hospital and caused them to
grant her two years' leave afterward. She told
me that it was her fourth year, actually, and she
was not going back.

She was my biology teacher. We came to the
chapters on evolution early in the year and she
taught them as required. But I don't know how
she did this: she timed herself so that every
day, she would say in a clear, firm voice, "But
without God was not anything made!"--and the
bell would ring!

It was unforgetable! It was like the bell was
sanctioning her final, clarion statement--like
a firm, "AMEIN!!"

Unforgetable teacher. 8o)

 

[Ernie Brazee]

My, how the world has chnged. Back before they had cruise control and A/c inautomobiles I was in the eighth grade, public school. (For the slow thinkers that was a lon time ago) Our teacher told us he couldn't teach us about evolution or he would be fired.

We used to say the pledge each morning and sang "America." We learned about the founding fathers and their struggle for liberty to worship, now kids are being taught freedom from worship. Take me back to the 40s and 50s please.

[ August 07, 2002, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
Take me back to the 40s and 50s please.

You can learn to be content in the 00s, Ernie:

Phil 4:12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

Surely God ordained us to be here, now, 'for such a time as this' and would not want us wishing to be anywhere or anytime else than where He's placed us. I believe He can enable us to be content where we are!

AITB

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:


Take me back to the 40s and 50s please.

Actually, I'm in the 40's and approaching my own 50's


I just want to say, Ernie, I love ya, man. I believe you and I are alike in a lot of ways, faith-wise, and hair-wise.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Aaah yes~to go back in the "good old days"! How I long for it, too; when's the next wagon leaving, Bro.Ernie?

[I've got my bags packed & ready to go!] This ol'world is shot to pieces!

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Aaah yes~to go back in the "good old days"! How I long for it, too; when's the next wagon leaving, Bro.Ernie?

[I've got my bags packed & ready to go!] This ol'world is shot to pieces!

Are you thinking of the Garden of Eden?

(My pastor preached on it recently and said we all long to be back there...)

AITB

 

[Ernie Brazee]

Hey, AITB, come on, get rid of the lemon, it was a joke. I am very content to be in this century. We just may be the generation that sees the Lord's return. If not it is exciting just to see God moving in Israel again. A few years ago there was a program about the Jews returning to Israel. Some of them interviewed gave up much to leave their respective countries and couldn't expain why. This is excitingto see prophecy fulfiiled in our time.

Ernie

Life was a lot simpler back in the 50s

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Ernie Brazee:
Hey, AITB, come on, get rid of the lemon, it was a joke.

You didn't like that I quoted Scripture to you?

It didn't sound like a joke to me; it sounded serious. Are you sure it was a joke?

But anyway, thanks for reaffirming that you have reasons to enjoy living in the 00s too

Yours in Christ,
AITB

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
I believe in spreading the word, and the priesthood of the believer, but I don't believe we have to fellowship, or even be friends with the unsaved.

I ama much stronger Christian now that I don't hang around my old unsaved friends.

It's a good thing that Jesus didn't take this attitude. He said that He came for the sinners.

And how exactly do you "spread the Word" if you refuse to associate with the "unsaved"?

 

[rsr]

There are good public schools; there are bad ones.

There are good teachers; there are bad ones.

I went through high school and college at public institutions; I met some wonderful teachers and some really bad ones.

All my children went through public schools; there were some abysmal teachers and administrators (which led us to transfer) and some truly gifted teachers, such as the former West Point professor who taught my daughter English literature.

In general, my experience in elementary school was favorable (with one exception), and we had the luck to have some very dedicated teachers.

The same wasn't as true in high school, particularly a son; but the daughter had a good experience. In fact, she met her best friend, who convinced her to join the church orchestra.

My point is you can't judge all of public education as being the same.

That said, I grew very frustrated with the bureaucracy that grows up in the system, which sometimes (and I'm not making a general statement) treats students as statistics and not individuals.

What would I do if I had it to do over again? I don't know, but I couldn't make a decision based on generalities.

 

[rsr]

I apoligize. This thread was supposed to be about the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
I believe in spreading the word, and the priesthood of the believer, but I don't believe we have to fellowship, or even be friends with the unsaved.

I ama much stronger Christian now that I don't hang around my old unsaved friends.

It's a good thing that Jesus didn't take this attitude. He said that He came for the sinners.

And how exactly do you "spread the Word" if you refuse to associate with the "unsaved"?</font>[/QUOTE]I didn't say associate, I said fellowship and be friends with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are the 3rd one on this thread to put words in my mouth.

And Jesus said he was here to "call sinners into repentance". It doesn't say he sold cookies and joined the local softball team. We are commanded to be separate, to not love the things of the world, and avoid contrary doctrine.

 

[AITB]

Originally posted by Mr. Curtis:
Jesus said he was here to "call sinners into repentance". It doesn't say he sold cookies and joined the local softball team. We are commanded to be separate, to not love the things of the world, and avoid contrary doctrine.

Of course we only have a very little of Jesus' three years (?) of ministry recorded for us.

For him to be called a 'friend of sinners' as an accusation from the religious leaders does seem to imply to me that he hung out with them a fair amount.

In the OT there were strict commands to the Jews to be separate entirely from other nations - so they wouldn't adopt pagan practices, presumably - although they didn't stay separate and they did adopt them.

In the NT we are commanded not to be yoked with unbelievers. I don't think this means we can't sell cookies or be part of the softball team with nonbelievers. Those could be great ways to get to know nonbelievers, that might lead them to ask questions about our faith, then we can answer with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15-16).

I think the point is not to be joined with nonbelievers in ways that are very likely to hurt us spiritually.

And if you, Mr Curtis are saying "I needed to be more separate - it is evident that my faith was suffering when I wasn't" then I respect that. The Bible doesn't say we must sell cookies and be on the softball team, just as it doesn't say we mustn't!

I think we're left with a lot of freedom in how we carry out the great commission.

I'm happy to be around nonbelievers. I don't think they can hurt my faith any more than my own questioning does

And I trust God will use me being around them in any way he sees fit.

AITB

 

[LadyEagle]

I didn't say associate, I said fellowship and be friends with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are the 3rd one on this thread to put words in my mouth.

I feel your pain. This happens way too often on this board, IMO.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I believe that Jesus was a friend to sinners, meaning he was their salvation. In every instance I read, he is pointing out their sin, not ignoring it. He is commanding them to "...sin no more...", by what I read. I don't think he hung around when they were swearing, telling dirty jokes, drinking beer/wine, ogling women, which is what I deal with when I am around the unsaved.

AITB, you gave a great example here...
"In the OT there were strict commands to the Jews to be separate entirely from other nations - so they wouldn't adopt pagan practices, presumably - although they didn't stay separate and they did adopt them."

That is a good lesson in being careful who you hang around with, don't you think ?

You also said ...
"In the NT we are commanded not to be yoked with unbelievers. I don't think this means we can't sell cookies or be part of the softball team with nonbelievers. Those could be great ways to get to know nonbelievers, that might lead them to ask questions about our faith, then we can answer with gentleness and respect (1 Peter 3:15-16)."

The fact is, sometimes they don't ask with gentleness and respect.

Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

Luke 9:5 "And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

I think the best way to spread the gospel is to do what it says..

Remain Seperate from the world.
Love not the world, nor the things in it.
Let your light shine.
Obey the commandments.
Be of good cheer.

I don't like to argue with non-believers.

And I think some of you folks use the "Jesus was a friend to sinners" in a bad context. I don't think he was fun for sinners to be around.