The Poison of Dragons

The Bible is the written Word of God. Jesus, the Son of God, the "Word" in John 1, is not the same as the Bible. That's a very serious theological error, kemosabe.

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Believe it or not, (and I didn't listen to the whole thing) he didn't do too bad a job in places of explaining why I think drinking is unwise for a Christian. I thought the "God's wine" being juice was a stretch. He also made passing reference to pain medicines being wrong, and he'd get an argument from me on that one (I'd argue that there are legitimate needs for those for many folks).

But, I can't get away from this guy's goofy theology, heretical assertions, toxic personality, and post-and-run scorched earth tactics.

 

Let us not fight now. We debate this on new day or new thread Tonto.

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Is "unwise" the same as sin in your view?

 

At first glance I thought he was going to be preaching against dragon movies (my wife works at our local IMAX, and Eragon is playing there). :laugh: :laugh: :thumbs:

 

He mentions the movie at around the 30 minute mark of the sermon. It's a good sermon you should listen to it.

 

This may be my first alcohol post...here goes:

1. I have my doubts about the difference often described between wine & grape juice in scripture. But would I bet my life on it? Nope.
2. Drunkenness is always wrong...always a sin. No doubt.
3. I should not cause a brother to stumble.
4. The potential upside to moderate consumption (taste, enjoyment, maybe minor health benefits) is quite small. The potential downside (arrest, accident, addiction, damage) is huge. The price isn't worth it.
5. I deal with kids all the time. It's better in my book to lead here by example, rather than being understood as saying, "Do as I say, not as I do."
6. If any alcohol consumption is sinful, and I refrain, I've lost nothing, and remained unblemished in that area.
7. We are created in God's image. However, that image is marred by sin. We see some of that "marring" when it comes to what vices/sins/etc. we are susceptible to. What if my weakness is alcohol? Sure, some folks drink and don't get hooked...but what if I'm one of those "other" folks? It's not worth the risk.

So is drinking at all a sin? Drunkenness is...that's enough for me. I think it's unwise for me to drink any alcohol whatsoever.

 

Good stuff! Thanks.

 

New thread started... http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36847

 

You're talking about two different things though. Moderation does not go hand in hand with arrest, accidents, addiction, and damage. Neither does moderation and seeing visions and cussing as described in the bible. Every arguments against "moderate" drinking such as these is actually talking about flat out drunkenness. Now, drinking in moderation, if not controlled, can potentially lead to drinking heavier, which can lead to being a drunkard, which does in fact carry with it the ill effects that the passages in the bible and all other arguments illustrate. But, to immediately associate "moderation", with this flat out drunkenness is not fair, because some people can in fact control their drinking and keep it at a moderate level, believe it or not. True, the ones that can't are sinning, but that's just really not the same whatsoever as having a glass of red wine with dinner or having a champagne toast on New Year's or having a beer or two while watching Monday Night Football in your own house.

Using these kinds of arguments is like saying that you should never go to the beach at all because people who do go to the beach for several hours a day for several times a week for several years sometimes develops skin cancer. There's just a little bit of a difference there.

It's also like saying you should never eat any red meat whatsoever, because people who eat a ribeye every day for 20 years gets heart disease.

Maybe we should never exercise, because the people who do high impact exercise for hours a day for years upon years develops joint problems.


Moderation people. Personally I think there's some of you, apparently one in particular, who could use a beer or two to wind down.

 

That's funny...me, wind down? If I'm serious 5 minutes a day, I go to the doctor. :tongue3:

I didn't try to tell you what to do about the issue...I shared with you what God wishes for me to do. Read my post...I think it's unwise for me to drink. You do as God leads you to do. My list was a descriptive, autobiographical account of where God has brought me. It takes into account...

• My upbringing (pretty strict view against alcohol)
• My family history (several alcoholics in my family)
• My "target audience" (I work with teens and pre-teens...and for them, drinking is always wrong because it's illegal)
• My sphere of influence and other Christians I affect (in this very conservative area, few Christians drink...or at least, they hide it well if they do :saint: :smilewinkgrin: )

So anyhow...if God gives you liberty, no skin off my back (no foam off my beer, no olive off my martini, whatever). I'm fine where I am.

And I tend not to post much in the boozy threads, because no matter how civil things are, we're never more than 10 posts from a personal attack, a fight, and the "pharisee/compromiser" barbs.

 

Actually I wasn't referring to you when I said what I think you're talking about, if that's what I think you're thinking in regards to the "one in particular".

 

Good posts rbell. You have made a choice for yourself based on reasonable reasons to abstane, without adding to scripture and elevating your choice to doctrine. You have allowed room for others to consider your reasons for themselfs and make there choice.

Good posts. :thumbsup:

 

This man preached a sermon on why TV was wrong and how everyone should get rid of it. At the end of the sermon, he proceeded to put a TV in the pulpit and smash it with a baseball bat, which scared some children in the congregation.

 

Do those children watch television now?

 

I don't want to know how he'd react if he knew they were doing that...

 

What are you suggesting?

 

He'd probably go and smash whatever TV they were watching.

 

He would be demonstrating more love to those children if he did, than those who let children watch the vile things.

 

Thats a warped view of love.

 

Because..?

 

If you don't want your children to watch television, don't buy one, or if they have friends who own TV's, don't let them go to the friends house(the friend has to go there).

Love doesn't allow outbursts of anger like that.