The Pope & divorced women

I see your all gravitating toward the pedophile issue again like flies to a dung pile. Time to repost the listing of Protestant Pedophile pastors. It's not just a Catholic problem folks. And there's alot more where these come from. And we know that God works through sinners. The High Priest Caiphus prophesied straight from God when clearly identifing himself with those who committed the worst sin of all time. The crusifixion of our Lord.

John 11:49-51
But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all,
nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish."
Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,

Here are some samples from the following website which gives news clips of 395 instances of protestant Pastors molesting children. I post this only when prots dig in to the Catholic scandal as if they are above reproach.

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Tinley Park, IL. For the second time in two weeks, a Baptist pastor from New Lenox has been charged with molesting a child — and prosecutors said they are looking for more victims. Dennis Larry Shaw, 53, of the 2100 block of Sanford Drive, New Lenox, was charged Monday with aggravated criminal sexual abuse of a 16-year-old girl, according to the Will County state's attorney's office. On Jan. 31, Shaw was arrested on similar charges after a parishioner's 12-year-old daughter alleged she was fondled by the pastor inside the church between October and December, prosecutors said. (Daily Southtown, February 11, 2003)
Minister again charged with molestation

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Fort Pierce, FL. Pastor Kenneth Johnson, recently convicted of having sex with a minor, and Friendship Missionary Baptist Church -- where he reportedly continues to minister -- were named in a sex-abuse lawsuit filed Tuesday. Johnson, 39, is scheduled to be sentenced Friday on one count of unlawful sexual activity with a minor. He faces up to 15 years on the second-degree felony. (The Tribune, January 22, 2003) .
Johnson to be sentenced Friday on 1 count of unlawful sexual activity with minor


http://www.reformation.com/CSA/

 

Curtis, what in the world are you talking about?

Are you saying that your mother is divorced and remarried outside of the Church?

A simple yes or no would go a long way in helping me to understand.

Ron

 

Bro. Curtis,

I don't know how many of the priest offenders are in jail and how many aren't. I don't have statistics on what percentage of the cases are legitimate and which are attempts to frame as the Cardinal Bernadine one was and the one recently out in South Dakota and Califorina that were proven to be false accusations. I know that in many cases the families have gone for money rather than prosecuting the priest. The Church cannot keep someone from going to jail in this country if they are convicted of violating the law. Further I doudt that all the Protestant pastors who have committed these atrocities are in jail either. I have another article I will look up that if I recall says that there are 70 insurance claims a week against Protestant churches for sex offenses (not just children) in this country. I know there are not nearly that many being put in jail.


Ah, here it is. Yep 70 per week is the right number:

http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/may02/index.php3?ft=agency.html

 

Curtis,

What do you mean by "overthowing her forgiveness"?

"Her current husband" suggests that your mother was previously married. Did that marriage end in divorce? When she married her current husband, where they both eligible for marriage within the Church?

Something is missing here. Could you explain a little what you mean by "overthrowing her forgiveness"?

Ron

 

I know I don't have all the facts like you seem to think you do. I can't judge the situations that are out there and don't know why some are in jail and some are not. I am all for the ones who abused a child to be in jail. But the Church has no power to stop them from being in jail if they have been tried and convicted. For those who have not been convicted, perhaps innocent until proven guilty still applies to them? Do you think it should? Also, many of the families have chosen to go for money rather than prosecution. I won't begrudge them of recompense if they have been wronged. I don't know all the legality of that or of the varing state laws. If some are not in jail then I think that our law enforcement is lacking. I also know that some are not in jail because the accusations were proven to be false. Now do you think that the Popes stand on divorce is silly? Is this your stand? Where do you stand on divorce Curtis?

 

My point is there are plenty of fornicators in your baptist Church as well. So we will focus on our reform and you focus on yours (And I don't need you with your haughty attitude to tell me that I need to be scandalized by it, I already am). Why the need for all the insurance Curtis? Why so many claims? Did you know that there were so many claims? 4% molesters in Protestant denominations. That's alot. My understanding is that only 2% or less of the claims against priests are verifiable. Seems your right hand doesn't know what the left is doing either. Seems like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

By the way, scandal is a part of the Church so all of this proves nothing. Curtis's logic does not hold that a Churches leaders cannot make moral statements if there is scandal in their Church.

1 Corinthians 5:1-2
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife.
You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst.

Speaking of other people within the Church Paul says:

Titus 1:10
For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,

Titus 1:11
who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.
One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons."

There are many other verses that speak about scandal in the Church. Once again this issue proves nothing with regard to truth or error and certainly proves nothing about whether the Pope can make a statement regarding divorce any more than Billy Graham can talk about abortion. I am glad when he does. If abortion is evil then we should speak against it. If divorce is forbidden then the Pope must maintain the 2000 year old Christian position on it. People are showing themselves to be rather illogical on this thread.

 

Well, it is beginning to sound like your mother is leaving the Church because she is not validly married in the Church and as such is not free to receive Communion.

A priest can not "absolve" someone from an invalid or irregular marriage.

A priest can absolve such parties from the sexual sin invloved in cohabitation without marriage, but absolution would also require that the parties either seperate or live as brother and sister until the irregularity in the marriage is resolved.

Ron

 

Johnv, the fact that these perverts aren't in jail is enough for me. They are being protected by the leaders of the church and it makes me, as a dad, sick. And don't tell me that every pervert priest has been thrown out. It takes months to act on this.

You mean they're innocent until proven guilty? Oh, God forbid!!!

 

Glad to know you agree with the Pope on divorce Curtis. Your first post made it sound like he shouldn't be taking that position.


Insurance claims do have a way of keeping things from rising to the surface apparently since I have not heard of anywhere near 70 arrests for molestation a week. Let's see, 70 x 52 = over 3500 per year. I think the article said 25 percent of those were pastors. Likely some baptists in the mix from the other article I posted.

Now cardinal law definitely made some errors in judgement, by his own admission even. But noone has arrested him yet. If he committed some sort of a felony surely if it is apparent as you state, then they would have arrested him by now. After all the Catholic Church in this country has no authority to keep people from getting arrested last I checked. You must have some further evidence that the authorities of Boston don't have that Cardinal Law broke laws (no pun intended). If you do you should go to the authorities right away. I have not seen any accusations that the Pope was directly involved in anything illegal with regard to this scandal. Perhaps you have some info on this also.

Sorry to hear about the situation with your mother. You had a right to be mad at her. She was living in sin. I cannot judge the situation with the priest as I don't have all the facts. If he did just absolve her in some fashion as you claim then you would have a right to be angry with him also and she would still be living in an illicit union which God would judge in the end. But I cannot judge the situation as I don't have all the facts there either.

I do find one thing interesting in this thread. When we get on a thread that discusses mortal and venial sin, stealing a cookie is as bad as rape from the Protestant end of things and there is no mortal or veinal sin. But in the pedophile threads, it is quite apparent that you see levels of sin.

Blessings.

[ April 23, 2003, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: thessalonian ]

 

Isn't that what is happening to the divorcees ? [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]No, on a couple of levels. Again, it's not divorce that's the problem, it's remarriage by people that the Church considers to be already married. Also, they're not "out of" the Church, they are warned against committing the further grave sin of receiving communion while they are in that state. Nobody who has sinned in the past and repented is ever kicked out of the Church, or prevented from receiving the Sacraments.

Mike

 

The Church was unquestionably damaged by the moral and cultural insanity that swept through the western world in the 60s and 70s. Damaged, but not, like some other churches, destroyed. Some priests and religious, just like some lay people, completely flaunted the Church's teachings on matters of sexual morality. The Church, according to the psychiatric theories of the time, believed they could be rehabilitated and tried to do so. Apparently today's psychiatric theories believe the opposite. Toss in the basic (but sometimes misunderstood or misapplied) Christian teachings of forgiveness, plenty of advice from lawyers, some cowardness, turf-protecting and head-in-sanding, and here we are today. I am terribly saddened that these predators were able to harm so many children, and that others who should have shown courage in stopping the abuse could not find that courage.

Happily, the Church is now working actively to root out this deep-seated corruption and infidelity to its teachings. It's not easy, because many in power are still defending and supporting infidelity to these teachings. I can tell you, though, that many, many Catholics are getting much more serious about fidelity to the Church. There's a lot of healthy pink tissue growing under the rot.

As an aside, I was drawn back to the Church in March of 2002, in the depths of the scandal. I have never thought that this was a coincidence, but rather a small part of God's plan to replace the rot with healthy growth. I thank God that He brought me back when times were so tough, so that I would understand from day one the importance of fidelity. I believe I am a much more faithful and believing Catholic as a result, than if I had been brought back in a "better" time.

Mike

 

And I know of no Baptist church that withheld evidence that kept a child molestor from prosecution.

Actually, I know of several Baptist, Non-Denom, and Presby pastors who covered up infidelity, and in a few cases, statutory rape of female members. In none of the cases were the clergy prosecuted. Amusingly, these happenned at the same time that the RCC scandal was hitting the papers, yet the non-RCC incidents were often "back page" news, and none of them nade the national headlines.