The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren

[Bob Colgan]

I'm reading the book, the more I read it the more I don't like it. It's not out right wrong.
But I'm reminded of a story many I'm sure have heard. Would you drink a glass of clean water if it only had a little poisen in it? I woulden't

Bob

 

[superdave]

Ok Bob, but where is the poison. We have heard plenty of comments in this thread about poison, but very little in the way of facts.

The links that were posted either were not specifically about PDL, or they took quotes from the book out of context and attacked them using rumor and innuendo about Warren's overall philosophy.

No one has yet clearly shown the book The Purpose Driven Life to be incorrect in areas of basic doctrine, or to be heretical in any sense. Is he a calvinist, probably not,

Why would you come to the Baptist Board if you believe what you posted. There are a couple poisons floating around in this particular glass too. Every book I read I have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. I don't always agree with John Piper, John MacArthur, or Max Lucado either, but that does not make their writings evil, heretical, poisonous, or otherwise.

 

[Bob Colgan]

Ok Dave
Like I said I in the process of reading it. So I'm not prepared to point out flaws in it. There is something that makes me feel very uncomfortable. I'm not much into this new evangelical stuff. I believe it to water down the Gospel. I believe one thing that bothers me right away is all the diffrent Bible versions that are used I believe the T.R. is the most reliable text we have not that I'm a KJVO. I do believe just the way he uses scripture is enof for me not to recomened it to a anyone. Just the fact that I believe there are many more solid books out there that deal with subject he seems to be trying to cover. example "Set Apart, Calling a Wordly Church to a Godley Life" by Kent Hughs and many of Jerry Bridges books. I find so far these books to be much much better than Warrens book. Like I said the use of scripture is enof for me. But I'll keep reading maybe I'll change my mind. Dout it.

Bob

 

[WallyGator]

Would the last one out shut off the lights?
I'm getting a headache! Think I'll check off on anything PDL related for awhile.

 

[Cix]

I'm a new member here. I was actually born again last year during my wife's church 40 days of purpose campaign. I however don't credit the 40 days of purpose campaign with my conversion. I credit the Holy Spirit, and the Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You see, while the church was pushing the Purpose Driven Life, I was eagerly reading and absorbing everything I could about the Gospel by reading my Holy Bible. I thank God for showing me the light. I tried reading that PDL book but actually couldn't get past the first couple of chapters. I just sensed something wrong with it, I kept going back to the holy scriptures and reading them eagerly. I have since put the PDL aside and never bothered reading the rest of it. I have read some of the recent book reviews that show the book in a bad light and much to my surprise, I find myself agreeing with much of them. I didn't like general feel of that book and now I know why.

Your servant in Christ,
Cix.

 

[superdave]

feelings, innuendo, and the evil satanism of KJVonlyism, the only clear explanation by anyone in this thread of why they don't like the book, I am beginning to like it more and more. I guess I'll have to read it again and see how I "feel" about it.

 

[Bob Colgan]

Superdave,

Does God not give you a spirit of disernment?
You don't think useing a Bible (If you can call them a Bible) matters if thats true I really don't like the new evangelical movement (Liberal Movement) You talk about fellings from what I have seen Warren has his feelings comming out of his ears. No I'll just stick to scripture A new fad comes around ever so often and people flock to it as the greatest thing ever> As far as I see it's just another fad something Satan uses to get us off the truth. Here is a idea just study the Bible.

Bob

 

[Marcia]

So far, no one has presented any hard evidence to back up the accusations presented against the book, PDL (Except for those who don't like quotes from the MV's or The Message).

The lights here went out a long time ago because there sure hasn't been any shed on why PDL is such a bad book.

 

[Bob Colgan]

Originally posted by bjonson:
Marcia and Dr. Bob,

Here is some direct discussion on PDL and how it distorts the true gospel:

http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue80.htm

I took this from bjonson, If this is not enof proof Well I don't know what is. Not much else to say. A little poison will kill you. Ill stick with John Mc Arthur and the likes.


Bob

 

[Dr. Bob]

Bob - Just read the link. Poor at best, with most attacks on Warren's use of various translations instead of the King James. Little of substance.

Shift to the Versions Forum for that debate.

And why would I want to read Bob DeWaay's article condemning Rick Warren's book because he is developing a following? So is Bob! And unlike Bob, Rick Warren and myself are both Baptists!

 

[Marcia]

I read the link, too. In fact, I read through most of it twice. I'm with you, Dr. Bob.

 

[bjonson]

SBCbyGrace,

You have declared that Rick Warren is solid theologically. I disagree.

I watched a video on the purpose driven website. It is a 20-minute presentation on "exponential growth", taught by Warren. He made 10 points in this video.

1. Exponential growth is possible - Gen. 47:27

With his first point, Warren begins the train wreck of faulty exegesis.

27 So Israel dwelt in the land of Egypt, in the country of Goshen; and they had possessions there and grew and multiplied exceedingly.

Somehow, Warren wants to take this passage out of context and attempts to apply it to a specific church growth program promise. The Genesis passage simply states a fact; the children of Israel multiplied exceedingly, even exponentially. However, this is directly tied to the fact that God specifically told Abraham that they would! There is nothing revelatory here. There is nothing related to Warren’s “40 Days of Purpose” program here. Surprisingly, he analogously mentions Starbucks and Krispy Kreme as examples of why we should expect our churches to grow exponentially. Instead of recognizing that the church is not a business, he compares it to two fast-growth companies. Anyone with a reasonable amount of discernment should see the invalidity of this illustration.


2. Exponential growth is the New Testament model – Acts 6:7

7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.

Warren takes a general statement about the Body of Christ and applies it to individual congregations. Has the church grown exponentially since the book of Acts? Certainly. Should we expect that same growth in each congregation? Nothing says we should. By God’s Providence, there are Christian churches in nearly every community of America. Many of these communities are very small. Some of them are in dying towns. Is it reasonable for a small, God-honoring church in a small town to experience exponential growth? I would say no. Does this mean the pastor’s faith is deficient? I don’t think so. Calling exponential growth a New Testament model is only accurate if one refers to the body of Christ as a whole and not individual congregations.

3. Exponential growth brings honor to God – Is. 26:15

15 Thou hast increased the nation, O LORD, thou hast increased the nation: thou art glorified: thou hadst removed it far unto all the ends of the earth.


This point is almost unnecessary. No one questions the truth of what is stated here. The passage in Isaiah is looking toward the prophetic reality that Israel would be increased after their captivity. God would not forget them and He would restore them and return growth. God will receive honor for that. There is no direct application to an individual congregation here. Worse, he makes the following statement regarding this point:

“We limit God when we think of addition instead of multiplication...God wants us to think in exponential terms”

He does? Where does God say that in His Word? The viewer is asked to accept this statement at face value without any support whatsoever. Perhaps Warren relies on the fact that he has already indicated that he hears the very voice of God, so how can we question him? The very suggestion that we “limit God” is blasphemous. It is an ultimate affront to a Sovereign God to suggest that our actions, or inactions, somehow deny Him the ability to accomplish His purposes. There is very, very bad theology here and I am afraid most viewers won’t even notice it.

More later...

 

[Bob Colgan]

Originally posted by Cix:
I'm a new member here. I was actually born again last year during my wife's church 40 days of purpose campaign. I however don't credit the 40 days of purpose campaign with my conversion. I credit the Holy Spirit, and the Books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. You see, while the church was pushing the Purpose Driven Life, I was eagerly reading and absorbing everything I could about the Gospel by reading my Holy Bible. I thank God for showing me the light. I tried reading that PDL book but actually couldn't get past the first couple of chapters. I just sensed something wrong with it, I kept going back to the holy scriptures and reading them eagerly. I have since put the PDL aside and never bothered reading the rest of it. I have read some of the recent book reviews that show the book in a bad light and much to my surprise, I find myself agreeing with much of them. I didn't like general feel of that book and now I know why.

Your servant in Christ,
Cix.

Cix

First congratulations on being born again !!!
Thats what its about amen.
I find it interesting that you being a new Christian said what you did. God is good It is my belief that nothing nothing absolutly nothing can stand next to His Holy Word. It is living and breathing. You know I started this thread about PDL with a open mind. Thow I have never been a fan of the new Evangelical movement Willow Creek ect. I thank God he reminded me after reading all the post how dangerous it is IMO. You know we comprimize a little and were in
very dangerous ground. If you want a good person to read and learn from John McArthur is one of the best along with Jerry Bridges J.I. Packer many of the reformers They remind us it's about Him and not my selfish ego/pride


Bob

 

[bjonson]

Dr. Bob said:

"Rick Warren and myself are both Baptists! "

Dr. Bob, this is one of the biggest problems with the Southern Baptist Convention - there is an amazing array of churches that go to extremes. There are very liberal (relative term) churches that feature motorcycle-across-the-platform-riding pastors and there are strongly reformed, conservative churches. Just saying you are both Baptist doesn't really say much when we recognize how varied Baptist beliefs are these days.

 

[bjonson]

Dr. Bob said:

"And why would I want to read Bob DeWaay's article condemning Rick Warren's book because he is developing a following? "

Dr. Bob, It isn't very godly to accuse the brethren and judge their motives, is it? This is very disappointing.

 

[superdave]

Yes, it is, that is what Dr. Bob and I are complaining about on this thread

 

[Trotter]

Gee, it sounds like a grade-school playground around here!

First off, PDL is a simple book of the Christian basics. It is not intended to be a book of theology, so get over it.

Second, not everyone bows down to the King James Version. While I may not care for a couple of the translations/paraphrases that Warren used in PDL, I am not the author of it (and neither are any ofthe rest of you).

Third, while Baptists run the entire spectrum of liberal to conservative, we all hold to the same basics. Thus, we have common ground.

Fourth, if you don't like Warren or his books, don't read 'em.

Easy enough? Good.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Baptist in Richmond]

Originally posted by Bob Colgan:
I'm reading the book, the more I read it the more I don't like it.

You are entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else on this board.

It's not out right wrong. But I'm reminded of a story many I'm sure have heard.
Would you drink a glass of clean water if it only had a little poisen in it? I woulden't

So, if you don't like it, then it is tantamount to a glass of water with a little poison?

Like I said I in the process of reading it. So I'm not prepared to point out flaws in it.

Wait a minute: you called it "poison" in your last post.

There is something that makes me feel very uncomfortable. I'm not much into this new evangelical stuff.

That too is your right.

I believe it to water down the Gospel. I believe one thing that bothers me right away is all the diffrent Bible versions that are used I believe the T.R. is the most reliable text we have not that I'm a KJVO.

You are condemning this book due to a personal preference that you cannot support with Scripture. That certainly is unfair.

I do believe just the way he uses scripture is enof for me not to recomened it to a anyone. Just the fact that I believe there are many more solid books out there that deal with subject he seems to be trying to cover. example "Set Apart, Calling a Wordly Church to a Godley Life" by Kent Hughs and many of Jerry Bridges books.

Again, this is your opinion, to which you are most certainly entitled. I am entitled to my opinion, and I disagree with you on this point.

I find so far these books to be much much better than Warrens book. Like I said the use of scripture is enof for me. But I'll keep reading maybe I'll change my mind. Dout it.

As do I, by virtue of your predetermined opinion of this book.

Does God not give you a spirit of disernment?

Indeed, He does.

You don't think useing a Bible (If you can call them a Bible) matters

Can I "call them a Bible?" Sure I can: "They are Bibles." Moreover, I can call them "The Word of God." Sounds to me like you are a KJVO. Does your "King James Bible" contain the Apocrypha like mine does?

My Wiclif Bible is the Word of God.
My Tyndale Bible is the Word of God.
My Geneva Bible is the Word of God.
My Authorised Version is the Word of God. [and is the REAL King James Bible]
My Dead Sea Scrolls Bible is the Word of God.
My Septuagint is the Word of God.
My NKJV is the Word of God.
My ESV is the Word of God.
My NASV is the Word of God.

if thats true I really don't like the new evangelical movement (Liberal Movement)

Again, you are entitled to your opinion.

You talk about fellings from what I have seen Warren has his feelings comming out of his ears. No I'll just stick to scripture A new fad comes around ever so often and people flock to it as the greatest thing ever> As far as I see it's just another fad something Satan uses to get us off the truth. Here is a idea just study the Bible.

Interesting sentence: actually, Rick Warren's book is indeed loaded with Scripture, albeit not from your Bible. I am amazed that, although you willingly admit that you haven't finished the book, you are already convinced that Satan is using it to "get us off the Truth." Moreover, if I should just "study the Bible," then I suppose that I don't need to read the book by "Kent Hughs." Perhaps you should take a deep breath, and tone down the contumely.

 

[Bob Colgan]

Baptist in Richmond,
Hey thanks for letting me have my opinion. Mighty nice of you.

Bob

 

[Dr. Bob]

Bob - the problem with your opinion is that you condemn the opinions of others. And that is all they are: opinions.

You gave a website as a source and many of us went to it, read the critique and decided it was not substantial. You think it is. Fine. I am Baptist, they are not.

[BTW, I am from the Twin Cities (Pillsbury Baptist College and Central Baptist Seminary) and have some other issues with that website but not airing it on this thread.]