The purpose of higher education

[rlvaughn]

In the realm of higher education, we are told that colleges and universities foster intellectual inquiry and critical thinking. They teach students to think, or how to think, rather than what to think. (I question how successful they are in achieving this goal, when they turn out so many students whose thinking is changed to agree with that of their professors!)

In this same vein, religious seminaries supposedly want you to think about what you believe and why, rather than teaching you what to believe. (It may be that they are more generally successful than secular institutions?)

What does the Bible say? It teaches us to examine ourselves; for example, our motives in taking the Lord ’s Supper (1 Corinthians 11:28), whether we be in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5), and to think and examine our thinking (Matthew 17:25; 18:12; 21:28; 22:17, 42, et al.). On the other hand, it teaches we have a delivered body of faith for which we should contend (Jude 3), that we are founded on the teachings of Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets (Ephesians 2:20) in which we should firmly stand (2 Thessalonians 2:15), and that the faith should be committed to faithful persons who pass it on to others (2 Timothy 2:2).

So, according to the Bible, what is the “happy medium,” the right place between teaching what we believe and how to think about what we believe?

 

[JonC]

I think that the happy medium is having a standard for seminary students but within that standard encouraging exploration and critical thinking.

When I was an undergrad we did not have to be a Christian. But in theology classes an atheist was expected to be able to articulate and defend his or her position. They could be very successful in the course work without holding to a Christian standard. When I started seminary it was different. I had to be recommended by a pastor, be a member of a church, and I had to affirm certain basic Christian truths. I was encouraged to explore my own beliefs and work them out among my peers. I was expected to be able to defend my beliefs. But within this Christian framework there was plenty of latitude and critical thinking was encouraged.

I think that the difficult part is determining an appropriate framework. If it is so strict as a certain soteriological view (Calvinism, Arminianism) or something like dispensationalism or covenant theology, then the seminary becomes simple indoctrination and this in a sort of vacuum. This is never good because it prevents legitimate examination by removing any opposing - yet orthodox Christian - view. But if there is no framework at all then I do not see how it could be defined as "Christian".

And to complicate things, often seminaries are there to equip people to serve in a particular domination and what is wanted is indoctrination rather than scholarship.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

I am so interested to read these replies! Thanks everyone!

 

[rlvaughn]

...having a standard for seminary students but within that standard encouraging exploration and critical thinking.

This is sort of what I was thinking when considering that seminaries may actually be doing a better job with this than many secular institutions. Some of the (especially newer) studies (e.g. Gender & Sexuality Studies) seem on their face to be designed to bring students around to a particular way of thinking.

And to complicate things, often seminaries are there to equip people to serve in a particular domination...

I suspect most seminaries from the middle to conservative end of the spectrum might exist for that reason.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

I have attended churches with strong boards that are designed to neutralize the power of the pastor. The pastor is a hired servant, not the boss. Not just his income, but even his home is under the complete control of the board. Those churches want a pastor that was groomed for their denomination and is certified to have been obedient to the expected denominational training.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have attended churches with strong boards that are designed to neutralize the power of the pastor. The pastor is a hired servant, not the boss. Not just his income, but even his home is under the complete control of the board. Those churches want a pastor that was groomed for their denomination and is certified to have been obedient to the expected denominational training.

also have seen the other extreme, where the Board is just friends and family, and pretty much amen every decision pastor would make!

 

[kathleenmariekg]

also have seen the other extreme, where the Board is just friends and family, and pretty much amen every decision pastor would make!

I have seen that too, but not nearly as often as when the pastor started the church.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

And to complicate things, often seminaries are there to equip people to serve in a particular domination and what is wanted is indoctrination rather than scholarship.

In this video at 10:40 the speaker says that confessional seminaries are better than non-denominational seminaries. That was what I asked about in another thread. Confessional vs Non-Confessional Seminaries But the thrust of this video and especially the one before it are the secular issues concerning higher education.

So this speaker suggests that indoctrination and scholarship go hand in hand, rather than oppose each other?

 

[JonC]

In this video at 10:40 the speaker says that confessional seminaries are better than non-denominational seminaries. That was what I asked about in another thread. Confessional vs Non-Confessional Seminaries But the thrust of this video and especially the one before it are the secular issues concerning higher education.

So this speaker suggests that indoctrination and scholarship go hand in hand, rather than oppose each other?

I see pros and cons. You can get monies if attending a seminary related to your denomination. One issue, however, is the degree to which the ministry has become a profession. I hear a lot of this in the video (granted, this may just be my ears).

A con of attending a denomination driven seminary is that good theology never occurs in a vacuum. If all you hear is how Baptists or Presbyterians or Methodists are right then you never get a fair chance to evaluate those (or your) beliefs.

Instead I recommend carefully choosing a Christian seminary. Make a list of doctrines you are not willing to evaluate (believers baptism was one for me, so I attended a Baptist seminary....not because I did not want to hear other sides but because I did not want to waste my time).

The best thing about seminary is working out your beliefs and getting support/ criticism from fellow believers.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

Make a list of doctrines you are not willing to evaluate (believers baptism was one for me, so I attended a Baptist seminary....not because I did not want to hear other sides but because I did not want to waste my time).

The best thing about seminary is working out your beliefs and getting support/ criticism from fellow believers.

This is something I realized while taking the WVBS course. There is some stuff that I am not willing to back down on: right or wrong, folk or academic. Period.

Other things are worth exploring.

I have spent time in a lot of denominations. There are pros and cons, and strengths and weaknesses, and truths and errors in them all. But I am who I am. It took me a long time and a pandemic to figure out who I am. When I have had the opportunity to fellowship, I sometimes downplayed my beliefs to fit in. But when I was forced to be alone month after month, with no in-person input and no primal instincts to assimilate with the flesh and blood right next to me, I discovered who I am, as a Christian and in many different ways.

I have lived too hard and studied too widely to blindly parrot everything Baptist, but I am a Baptist: to the extent that I know that I am Baptist even if others were to tell me that I am not, and kick me aside forever.

This pandemic has been good for something.

 

[kathleenmariekg]

I see pros and cons. You can get monies if attending a seminary related to your denomination. One issue, however, is the degree to which the ministry has become a profession. I hear a lot of this in the video (granted, this may just be my ears).

No, you heard right. I am one of the people he is trying to counsel not to be so foolish. I think he is wrong about me and some people like me. Paul Washer has a video on prayer that says this better than me. The Charismatic churches that I sometimes attended as a child were in error, yes, but as my parent moved on to more conservative churches, I observed a passivity and denial of God's power and lack of intimacy with each other and God that was and is faith-shaking. Start watching at 19:15.

I don't know what comes next for me. I never do. But my inability to know what my Daddy has planned next is not because I am being irresponsible. He is so much bigger than us. And the big kids are more foolish than I am if they think they can box God up, and predict what Daddy is going to do next, and measure obedience with the rewards of this world.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is something I realized while taking the WVBS course. There is some stuff that I am not willing to back down on: right or wrong, folk or academic. Period.

Other things are worth exploring.

I have spent time in a lot of denominations. There are pros and cons, and strengths and weaknesses, and truths and errors in them all. But I am who I am. It took me a long time and a pandemic to figure out who I am. When I have had the opportunity to fellowship, I sometimes downplayed my beliefs to fit in. But when I was forced to be alone month after month, with no in-person input and no primal instincts to assimilate with the flesh and blood right next to me, I discovered who I am, as a Christian and in many different ways.

I have lived too hard and studied too widely to blindly parrot everything Baptist, but I am a Baptist: to the extent that I know that I am Baptist even if others were to tell me that I am not, and kick me aside forever.

This pandemic has been good for something.

The early church was not Baptists, but would have been baptist like in doctrines and practices!

 

[kathleenmariekg]

The early church was not Baptists, but would have been baptist like in doctrines and practices!

With a touch more Charismatic, though, I think.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

"So, according to the Bible…?" Good question. One professor asked, "What do you think Paul was doing in Arabia?" His answer: "I think Paul was getting the Pharisee worked out of him."

Galatians 1:11–20:

I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus. Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.​

 

[Yeshua1]

With a touch more Charismatic, though, I think.

Yes, for at that time there were all of the gifts in operation, but since John passed away.....

 

[kathleenmariekg]

Yes, for at that time there were all of the gifts in operation, but since John passed away.....

I think people that live cozy and comfortable lives among people have been blessed for right living, trust more in their community than God: I think it feels safer to think of God as smaller. Whereas people that face danger and poverty feel safer to think of God as bigger. We need to be careful not to imagine God into what makes us feel safe, in either direction.

I think portraying God as small is worse than the emotional stuff the conservative churches preach so strongly against. I think we need to take a good hard look at the more obedient brother in the prodigal son story and not think he was better than the one that left.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think people that live cozy and comfortable lives among people have been blessed for right living, trust more in their community than God: I think it feels safer to think of God as smaller. Whereas people that face danger and poverty feel safer to think of God as bigger. We need to be careful not to imagine God into what makes us feel safe, in either direction.

I think portraying God as small is worse than the emotional stuff the conservative churches preach so strongly against. I think we need to take a good hard look at the more obedient brother in the prodigal son story and not think he was better than the one that left.

How do see charismatic gifts?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

So, according to the Bible, what is the “happy medium,” the right place between teaching what we believe and how to think about what we believe?

According to the Bible:
[Phl 1:27 KJV] 27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

[1Co 2:16 KJV] 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

I struggle constantly to "have the mind of Christ". If we born-again-ones could experience that thought process on a continual basis, all other "education" in spiritual matters would "null and void" so to speak.

I have seen that too, but not nearly as often as when the pastor started the church.

Often times in such ministries, the pastor's offspring takeover the pulpit by birthright! What happened to being "called to the ministry" as in was decades ago?

 

[kathleenmariekg]

How do see charismatic gifts?

I think there are things that I may not know about this subject.

Early man watched the passage of seasons without full understanding. He did not need full understanding to prepare for winter and assume that spring would come eventually.

There are parts of the Bible that I know I am to concern myself with; there are other parts that are bigger than my understanding. I know the basics of a variety of teaching on this subject. I choose not to focus on this point or attempt to come to a conclusion until I understand some other doctrines more fully.

The "smartest" and most vocal of preschoolers that try and discuss whether mommy had a life before they were born make fools of themselves. I am like the preschooler that just says, "I don't know about that, but I know I have a mommy and that she loves me, and I try and do all the things that she tells me over and over in a loud voice.

 

[JonC]

How do see charismatic gifts?

With spiritual eyes?