The Reasons Why I See No Need for Formal Minstry Education?!

[Mark Osgatharp]

We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Would you apply that to a doctor, pilot, etc.?

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Would you apply that to a doctor, pilot, etc.? </font>[/QUOTE]A man who commits his children to the care of anyone he does not know, and therefore cannot possibly trust, is not in his right mind.

For 12 years I entrusted my son to the care of the public school system, and looking back on it I just don't know where my mind was. May God forgive me.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
I will take your last post as a frank admission that you can't prove by the Bible that a formal education is a necessary qualification for the ministry.

In biblical times anyone who could read received a formal education. Obviously, Americans thought it important to be educated or compulsory education would not have been required. How many people were educated when we had child labor and education was not compulsory? Mostly the rich.

When wanted to be a rabbi he was required to know the OT well. Why should we require less of Christian pastors than Jewish rabbis?

A good education involves giving a huge dose of the basics. Most people are unable to get that themselves. A formal education is learning to learn and interact with others.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Would you apply that to a doctor, pilot, etc.? </font>[/QUOTE]A man who commits his children to the care of anyone he does not know, and therefore cannot possibly trust, is not in his right mind.
</font>[/QUOTE]Most of the time when sin is committed in churches it is done by people who are well known.

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

gb,

The subject here is "Formal Ministry Education" - as in College, Seminary, Bible Institute.

No one here has suggested that a man who can't read can be a minister. No one here has suggested that a pastor should not know the Bible well.

All that has been said is that "Formal Ministry Education" is not a requirement for the ministry.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[gb93433]

I would contend that the past practice of those in leadership could easily support the importance of a formal education. Anyone who could read when the Bible was written was formally educated. Every rabbi was formally educated. Some say that many of the writers of the NT were not educated. I would disagree on the basis of the fact that about 1-2% of the population could even read, let alone write Greek. Greek in most cases was not their mother tongue.

This does not negate the idea that God can use whom he chooses. He chose to use a donkey. I cannot imagine a donkey in the pulpit each Sunday. Uneducated people can be spiritual just as the educated. God uses each person in ways he chooses. But let us do all that we can to prepare for what God wants from us. Don’t we owe God more than that?

If we get an education to be arrogant that is wrong but if we get an education to be well prepared that is admirable and godly.

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Mark Osgatharp

Well, many of these are under no one's care during most of the time. They run the streets and roam with all kinds of people. What's wrong with putting them on a bus and taking them to a place where people love them, care for them and teach them about the things of God? Christian folks take their kids to church. On the other hand, all bus ministries are not for kids. Many adults, who have no transportation, ride a church bus.

If you don't like the church bus ministry, apply the logic to Sunday School. We shouldn't have Sunday School because it's not in the Bible. What about Gospel tracts? I've never found a chapter and verse about Gospel tracts either. Should we do away with Gospel tracts?

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
gb,

The subject here is "Formal Ministry Education" - as in College, Seminary, Bible Institute.

No one here has suggested that a man who can't read can be a minister. No one here has suggested that a pastor should not know the Bible well.

All that has been said is that "Formal Ministry Education" is not a requirement for the ministry.

Mark Osgatharp

I may have missed it but I don't find anyone saying that "formal ministry education" is an absolute requirement for one to preach or teach. If so, then how much? The general tenor of the education proponents is to get all the education that you can get. What reasonable man could disagree with this?

On the other hand, the opponents seem to be saying "it ain't important." Their argument is that education is man's, not God's. Without education, how can one even read the Word of God? Whereas I strongly believe in the illumination by the Holy Spirit, there is no illumination in illiteracy. The Holy Spirit enlightens our minds through the reading and study of the Word. It is not by osmosis or some mystical experience!

You disparage learning, teaching and writing as man's efforts. Let me ask this: Did you not learn to read the Bible in English through manmade education? Furthermore, I infer that you do not read the Scriptures in the original languages. Therefore, you read an English translation made by some learned man and you accept his knowledge of the original languages, scholarship and learning with veracity. Yet, you turn around and belittle the very thing that gives you the Word of God to use in supporting your own faith and arguments. IMHO, there’s an internal contradiction here somewhere.

It seems that we should have the highest educational and learning standards for those who labor in the Word since their error is compounded and multiplied through preaching. Good intentions and being a good person does not keep one from error.

 

[RayMarshall19]

Let me ask this question again of two posters this time:

Did gb93433 and paidagogos read the topic for this discussion?

I would like for both of them to reply.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by RayMarshall19:
Let me ask this question again of two posters this time:

Did gb93433 and paidagogos read the topic for this discussion?

I would like for both of them to reply.

You failed to include "We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Mark Osgatharp"

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by buckster75:
To answer Ray's question:

One of the must haves are the Biblical qualifications. Do we need others?

In a word--YES!

 

[paidagogos]

Originally posted by buckster75:
To answer Ray's question:

One of the must haves are the Biblical qualifications. Do we need others?

The answer is YES from a practical standpoint. Would you have an illiterate pastor shepherd a flock of young urban professional folks? If not, then you have agreed in principle to qualifications beyond the specific requirements stated in Scripture. Now, the question is purely academic in how much education is needed.

Another way to look at it is that Scripture addresses the spiritual, moral and character qualifications without addressing the issue of education or learning. Don't try to make the Scriptures broader than what the text actually states. Can you support from Scripture that the requirements are complete without any additional considerations? In other words, how do you know the lists in Scripture were intended to be exhaustive?

 

[paidagogos]

For sake of argument, I will stipulate that a formal seminary education is not required for effective ministry. However, the level of knowledge and learning equivalent to a seminary education is a reasonable expectation or requirement in preparation for effective ministry. As dedicated servants of God, we ought to be striving for the best preparation and quality that we can bring to ministry. As I have stated elsewhere, you can get it at seminary/Bible college or you can get it on your own. Now, I invite those individuals who have achieved seminary equivalent learning on their own to step forward and be recognized. Any takers?

 

[Salamander]

Yes, as the Comforter as my Guide, yes.

 

[bapmom]

paid,

Im pretty sure I agree with you along this line of thinking. However, if a person hasn't ever been to seminary how would they know that they've acheived an equivalent level of learning?

I can point to my husband as an excellent example of one who has not finished Bible college (attended, but for various reasons has not yet finished). But he has gone on to study continuously. He isn't in a pastoral position yet, but we will be going to the mission field eventually.

I don't know if he's reached a seminary level of knowledge yet, though.

 

[RayMarshall19]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by RayMarshall19:
Let me ask this question again of two posters this time:

Did gb93433 and paidagogos read the topic for this discussion?

I would like for both of them to reply.

You failed to include "We shouldn't have church bus ministries. What man in his right mind would put his kid on a church bus with a bunch of folks he didn't even know. And what man in his right mind would go around gathering up kids.

Mark Osgatharp" </font>[/QUOTE]I fail to understand the above quote but . .

I'm still waiting for you to tell us if you read the topic for this discussion. Also, did you read the author's instructions? If so, why are you posting here?

 

[RayMarshall19]

Originally posted by paidagogos:
For sake of argument, I will stipulate that a formal seminary education is not required for effective ministry. However, the level of knowledge and learning equivalent to a seminary education is a reasonable expectation or requirement in preparation for effective ministry. As dedicated servants of God, we ought to be striving for the best preparation and quality that we can bring to ministry. As I have stated elsewhere, you can get it at seminary/Bible college or you can get it on your own. Now, I invite those individuals who have achieved seminary equivalent learning on their own to step forward and be recognized. Any takers?

I asked this earlier but I will ask it again. Did you read the topic of this discussion? Also, did you read the author's instructions?

 

[Rhetorician]

To all who have participated:

Please go back and read the OP again.

Please follow those instructions if you will please.

Thank you ahead of time for your insightful answers. It is a very interesting thread and I have enjoyed each and every post.

soli deo gloria!

rd

 

[go2church]

Why I see no need for formal ministry education?!

1. Because I'm lazy and don't want to do the work
2. Because I'm afraid to have my "well thought out" arguements and opinions destroyed in public by some "pin-head" professor
3. Because Jesus didn't go to seminary why should I
4. Because all I need to know is right there in black and white in my Scofield Reference Bible, what else do you need