The Reckoning of Time

[rockytopva]

I believe man's domain on earth will be approximately seven thousand years. I have often wondered where the reckoning of man's time on earth begins.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
2. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
5. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1

I believe trillions of what we call years could have passed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:5. Time was not measured until the earth was put in orbit around the sun. So what we would have is...

Pre-Day 1 - The creation of heaven and earth... An unknown space as time had yet to be measured.
Day 1 - Earth is placed in rotation around the sun. Beginning of the accounting of time
Day 2 - The creation of geography
Day 3 - The creation of the seeds of plant life
Day 4 - The creation of the moon and an atmosphere to let the light in
Day 5 - The creation of animal life
Day 6 - The creation of man for a seven thousand year domain
Day 7 - The day of rest

After seven thousand years it will all end along with the accounting of time...

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: - Revelation 10:5-6

As E=mc2 we can divide and conclude that mass (m) = plasma (E/c2) and that it must needs for the universe to return to plasma energy where God will plan other things to do with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness. - 2 Peter 3:10-11

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. - Revelation 21:1

 

[GodisgraciousR325]

There was no sun in Day 1

 

[rockytopva]

I built this timeline in the long ago.... The images are screenshots from what i came up with in Excel. Estimated dates....

4300 BC - Creation of Adam
2640 BC - The Great Flood
2060 AD - Christ’s coming
3100 AD - End of millennial and destruction of planet earth

I have man on this planet 7,400 years, and would put the accuracy of these dates within 400 years....

Taking the timeline of the church in parallel with the generations of Adam there was a severe famine during the time Noah was born. I would imagine a time of famine during the time of the Black Horseman, which days I believe we now live in....

As far as Isaac Newton’s 2060AD quote he said....

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton
The 2060AD quote is a close estimation and not an exact date.

 

[Blank]

Day 7 - The day of rest.

Hebrews 4:3 ESV
For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, "As I swore in my wrath, 'They shall not enter my rest,'" although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.

If there is a day seven. It wouldn't be in the future

 

[37818]

After seven thousand years . . .

The 7 days were a week.
Exodus 20:11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Rodger]

I believe man's domain on earth will be approximately seven thousand years. I have often wondered where the reckoning of man's time on earth begins.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.
2. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
5. And the evening and the morning were the first day. - Genesis 1

I believe trillions of what we call years could have passed between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:5. Time was not measured until the earth was put in orbit around the sun. So what we would have is...

Pre-Day 1 - The creation of heaven and earth... An unknown space as time had yet to be measured.
Day 1 - Earth is placed in rotation around the sun. Beginning of the accounting of time
Day 2 - The creation of geography
Day 3 - The creation of the seeds of plant life
Day 4 - The creation of the moon and an atmosphere to let the light in
Day 5 - The creation of animal life
Day 6 - The creation of man for a seven thousand year domain
Day 7 - The day of rest

After seven thousand years it will all end along with the accounting of time...

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: - Revelation 10:5-6

As E=mc2 we can divide and conclude that mass (m) = plasma (E/c2) and that it must needs for the universe to return to plasma energy where God will plan other things to do with it.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness. - 2 Peter 3:10-11

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. - Revelation 21:1

This the age old argument of Old Earth vs. Young Earth.

You are taking the position of Young Earth which means that you believe that Adam and Eve lived along side of dinosaurs and they were actually on the Ark.

Indeed, the “young-earth” vs. “old-earth” debate is one of the most polarizing and divisive issues within the Christian community.

It should be noted that the Biblical Hebrew has a very limited vocabulary of approximately 3,100 words. When compared to the English vocabulary which is estimated to be 1,000,000 words we can see that Hebrew words often have several literal meanings.

Linguistic scholars acknowledge the Hebrew word yôm (translated “day” in English) has several literal meanings:
1. a period of daylight,
2. a 12-hour day,
3. a. 24-hour day,
4. time,
5. a period of time with unspecified duration,
6. and epoch of time.

While modern English has numerous words to describe a long time-span, no word in biblical Hebrew adequately denotes a finite epoch of time other than yôm.

It should also be noted that the Bible does not specify the age of creation.

The Young Eartth belief that God created the world 6,000 years ago originated from a mid-17th century examination of the Genesis genealogies by Archbishop James Ussher and theologian John Lightfoot. Based on the ages of patriarchs, Ussher and Lightfoot both calculated the universe, earth, and life were created in 4004 B.C. Over the next several centuries, this date became firmly entrenched in Christian belief. The cornerstone of belief in a 6,000-year-old earth rests solely on the genealogies providing a totally accurate and complete chronology. Is it?

It should also be noted that It has shown that the Mosaic genealogies are about 40 percent complete. Those who hold that the genealogies are telescoped place the creation of Adam and Eve around 10 to 30 thousand years ago, but perhaps as late as 60,000 years ago.
Source: John Millam, “The Genesis Genealogies.” Grudem, pg. 290-291.

As an Old-earth creationist, I accept the geological and cosmological estimates of a 4.5 billion year old earth.

It should also be noted that Scripture speaks not of a young earth or an old earth, but an ancient earth:....
Michah 6:2........." Hear O mountains…you everlasting foundations of the earth".
Habakkuk 3:6....."The ancient mountains crumbled, and the age-old hills collapsed".

I would add also that Multiple independent evidences confirm an ancient earth,.....
1. 40 different methods of radiometric dating
2. numerous non-radiometric measurements
3. Ice core samples from Antarctica and Greenland show an annual ice layer dating past 800,000 years.
4. Annual tree ring records provide a continuous record of the past 15,000 years.
5. Coral reefs record long ages of growth (Eniwetok Reef 140,000 years, and the Grand Bahama Reef 790,000 years).
6. Ancient annual lake varve sediments provide evidence of earth’s history dating back 15 to 20 million years.

Source: “Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective,” Roger C. Wiens, Radiometric Dating ; C. John Collins, Science and Faith: Friends or Foes? (2003), 249-250; “Reliability of Radiometric Dating” , Hugh Ross, A Matter of Days: Resolving a Creation Controversy (2004), 175-184; William Newman, Geologic Time (U.S. Geological Survey, 1997), Geologic Time: Contents ; Jeff Zweerink, “Ice Cores Reveal History,” www.reasons.org/ice-cores-reveal-history. Geology and Creation Science,” www.answersincreation.org/geology.htm ; God’s Word, God’s World, Patti Townley-Covert (Editor), RTB (2009), 32-26; “The Age of Coral Reefs,” www.asa3.org/asa/education/origins/coralreefs.htm ; Davis A. Young and Ralph F. Stearly, The Bible, Rocks and Time: Geological Evidence for the Age of the Earth (2008), 310).

 

[Rodger]

The 7 days were a week.
Exodus 20:11, For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

The truth is that many geological features of earth simply do not support the YEC flood-geology model.

Christian geochemist W.U. Ault writes,.......
“The serious Bible student will not seek to support the physical aspects of Bible history with pseudo-science.”

Conservative theologian Wayne Grudem comments: .....
“ am not persuaded that all of the earth’s geological formations were caused by Noah’s flood rather than by millions of years of sedimentation, volcanic eruptions, movement of glaciers, continental drift, and so forth…its advocates have persuaded almost no professional geologists, even those who are Bible-believing evangelical Christians.”

 

[37818]

The truth is that many geological features of earth simply do not support the YEC flood-geology model.

Christian geochemist W.U. Ault writes,.......
“The serious Bible student will not seek to support the physical aspects of Bible history with pseudo-science.”

Conservative theologian Wayne Grudem comments: .....
“ am not persuaded that all of the earth’s geological formations were caused by Noah’s flood rather than by millions of years of sedimentation, volcanic eruptions, ement of glaciers, continental drift, and so forth…its advocates have persuaded almost no professional geologists, even those who are Bible-believing evangelical Christians.”

The post flood mountains were caused by movements of the Earth surfaces.

 

[Rodger]

The post flood mountains were caused by movements of the Earth surfaces.

That is called "Plate Techtonics".

It is a process that takes place over millions of years. In fact, the earth's land masses are still moving today. All of the continents are still moving at an average rate of less than five inches per year.

Now since that is a measured, scientific and observable fact, how do you explain it since there has been no world wide flood in 6000 years.
Mountains form when two continental plates collide. The collision causes the rocks to crumple and fold, creating a mountain range. ......
not by flowing water.

 

[37818]

That is called "Plate Techtonics".

It is a process that takes place over millions of years. In fact, the earth's land masses are still moving today. All of the continents are still moving at an average rate of less than five inches per year.

Now since that is a measured, scientific and observable fact, how do you explain it since there has been no world wide flood in 6000 years.
Mountains form when two continental plates collide. The collision causes the rocks to crumple and fold, creating a mountain range. ......
not by flowing water.

The mountains at the time of the flood, Genesis 7:19-20, And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Those mountains are much higher today. The flood didn't cause that. Only the sediment layers before hand.

 

[37818]

There was no sun in Day 1

No evidence of no Sun on day 1. Of course the Sun was not seen as a district greater light until day 4.

 

[Rodger]

The mountains at the time of the flood, Genesis 7:19-20, And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Those mountains are much higher today. The flood didn't cause that. Only the sediment layers before hand.

Agreed. The flood DID NOT cause mountains.

We know that the flood did not shape the mountains as the mountains were already there before the flood.

Mountains developed from tectonic plates coming together and pushing sediments and earth upwards from the collision..

 

[Van]

Many threads have been posted dealing with the time of creation. We have a pretty good basis for concluding Adam lived less than 7000 years ago. The duration of the generations from Adam to Jesus can be estimated. The actual duration for the first part of the list are given in scripture. And we know from history the approximate duration from King David to Jesus (about 1000 years). If we interpolate, using 60 to 100 years for the average generation time for the missing part of the list, we fall short of 7000 years from now. I do not see how Christians can hold to a longer period and believe the Bible is trustworthy.

The fly in the buttermilk is the duration of the "creation" days. The "YEC" crowd says 24 hour days. The "OEC" crowd says "indefinite duration" perhaps billions of years. Scripture says we do not know. Job 38.

 

[37818]

The fly in the buttermilk is the duration of the "creation" days.

I am not a YEC. But hold to a literal 7; day week in Genesis 1:3-31, - Genesis 2:2 per Exodus 20:11.

 

[Rodger]

Many threads have been posted dealing with the time of creation. We have a pretty good basis for concluding Adam lived less than 7000 years ago. The duration of the generations from Adam to Jesus can be estimated. The actual duration for the first part of the list are given in scripture. And we know from history the approximate duration from King David to Jesus (about 1000 years). If we interpolate, using 60 to 100 years for the average generation time for the missing part of the list, we fall short of 7000 years from now. I do not see how Christians can hold to a longer period and believe the Bible is trustworthy.

The fly in the buttermilk is the duration of the "creation" days. The "YEC" crowd says 24 hour days. The "OEC" crowd says "indefinite duration" perhaps billions of years. Scripture says we do not know. Job 38.

The Hebrew word for “day” is the word “Yom.”

Young earth creationists have always argued that the word used for the days of creation can only mean a 24-hour day.

That is simply not true. "YOM" in the originla Hebreww has many meanings all depending on Context..........
Time
Year
Age
Ago .......One time Yom is translated "ago." 1 Samuel 9:20 says "As for the donkeys you lost three days ago, ..."
Always...Always here can be interpreted as a lifetime...for instance, we are to keep the commandments of the Lord always (Deut. 5:29).
Season
Chronicles.....When used in conjunction with the word dâbâr, yom is translated "chronicles" (27 times).
Continually....When used in conjunction with kôwl, yom is translated as "continually" (11 times).
Ever............... Ever is used to represent a long period of time, such as in Deuteronomy 19:9, "to walk ever in his ways."
Evermore.......In one instance, when yom is used in conjunction with kôwl, Yom is translated "evermore."

As you can see, Yom is used in a wide variety of situations related to the concept of time. Yom is not just for days...it is for time in general. How it is translated depends on the context of its use with other words.

 

[Rodger]

I am not a YEC. But hold to a literal 7; day week in Genesis 1:3-31, - Genesis 2:2 per Exodus 20:11.

Then by that definition YOU are a Young Earth believer. I am not saying that is bad, only that you are one.

 

[37818]

Then by that definition YOU are a Young Earth believer. I am not saying that is bad, only that you are one.

The age of the Earth's crust dates over some 3 billion years old. Much older than the 6 days beginning Genesis 1:3. We also see the Andromeda Galaxy and as it.was some 2.5 million years ago.

 

[rockytopva]

Plate Techtonics (biblically foundations)- God also took the issue up with Job...

1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof... - Job 38

 

[Van]

Then by that definition YOU are a Young Earth believer. I am not saying that is bad, only that you are one.

Hi Rodger, yes you are correct. We have the generations from Adam to Jesus in scripture, and using the biblical duration given for some, the historical average duration for others, and a generous allowance for those in between, Adam was created less than 7000 years ago. And if the creation days were 24 hour days, then the earth is also less than 7000 years old, thus those that hold this view are YEC!

 

[Van]

Note that some seek, see the OP, to put the creation of the heavens and the earth "before" the start of creation day 1. This does not work with Exodus 20:11 which has God making the heavens and earth for six days.