The Redundancy of Satan in Calvinism

[kyredneck]

saved out of the Kingdom of satan

Hey, that's a pretty good articulation of 'saved'!

 

[David Kent]

I don't need scripture to prove what I PERSONALLY FEEL AND UNDERSTAND concerning God.

There is a story missing from our self-proclaimed elect brethren, that evil controlled them and how only God got you out of it.

Did they need to hear the entire bible and few days later God pressed a button. Did they only hear part of it, one line.

The claim being thrown is they were under the control of the devil previously, but have nothing to express of any switch actually happening.

You people never supply scripture to support your claims, just human 'logic,'

 

[thatbrian]

You people never supply scripture to support your claims, just human 'logic,'

Either your eyes fail you or that comment is insincere, and the proof is above.

 

[utilyan]

You people never supply scripture to support your claims, just human 'logic,'

You wouldn't need a bible to know if GOD ALMIGHTY was talking to you face to face.

The claim being made is God comes down and regenerates a person, they are now elect.

But no one gives that story at all. Its self-proclamation. And they point to scripture.


I think if you were under control of the devil, and God showed up and told you that you are now one of his elect, you might possibly gone through a life change a little more dramatic then a burp during lunch time.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

The problem with Calvinists and Reformed folk, is their complete misunderstanding of passages like Ephesians 2:1-2, etc. The "dead" in such passages, as nothing to do with the sinner being so dead, that they are spiritually incapable of responding to the call to salvation by God the Holy Spirit. The verse clearly says that the unsaved are "dead in their transgressions and sins". By this it means as Isaiah 59:2 puts it, "but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that He does not hear". This is the "deadness" that Paul speaks of. The sinners "relationship" with the Holy God of the Bible is a broken one, because the fact that they are SINNERS! This is the spiritual "separation" (dead) that is in view in passages like Ephesians. In John 5:25, Jesus speaks of the spiritual dead who "hear" His voice, but only those who "respond" will live. It cannot refer only to the "elect", as the verse says that ALL those who hear Jesus' voice will not live, but only those who "respond". If the "elect" were meant, then surely ALL would "respond". neither can it be taken to mean that God "causes" their "response", because it is clear from what Jesus says, that these "dead" are expected to "respond", but most do not! If they were spiritually dead, as in being "incapable", then this verse does not make any sense. Sure God the Holy Spirit must work on the sinners heart to obey the Gospel call, as Jesus says in John 16:8-9, that when the Spirit comes, He will "convict the world of sin...because they do not believe in me". Again, clearly shows that these sinners have the capacity to "not believe", not that they "cannot" because God has "bound" their WILL, but, as Paul says, "They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved...and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness" (2 Thess. 2:10, 12). All sinners are "responsible" for their "actions", not "bound" by God so that they cannot come, but they REFUSE!

 

[Rhetorician]

The Redundancy of Satan in Calvinism

By Leighton Flowers


From the article:

Calvinism’s doctrine of Total Inability suggests that all people are born as “spiritual corpses,” morally unable to see, hear, understand and repent even in response to God’s own inspired truth. But this seems contradictory to what some leading Calvinists teach regarding the impact Satan has in our world.

For example, in an article titled, “Satan’s Ten Strategies Against You,” Calvinistic Pastor, John Piper, mentions this about the the great deceiver, Satan:

“1) He blinds the minds of unbelievers.

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ” (2 Corinthians 4:4). So he not only speaks what is false. He hides what is true. He keeps us from seeing the treasure of the gospel. He lets us see facts, even proofs, but not preciousness.

2) Satan plucks the word of God out of people’s hearts and chokes faith.

Jesus told the parable of the four soils in Mark 4:1–9. In it, the seed of the word of God is sown, and some falls on the path and birds quickly take it away. He explains in verse 15, “Satan immediately comes and takes away the word which was sown in them.” Satan snatches the word because he hates faith which the word produces (Romans 10:17).

Paul expresses his concern for the faith of the Thessalonians like this: “I sent to learn about your faith, for fear that somehow the tempter had tempted you and our labor would be in vain” (1 Thessalonians 3:5). Paul knew that Satan’s design is to choke off the faith of people who have heard the word of God.”

Does this effort of Satan strike anyone as being completely unnecessary if the claims of Calvinism are true regarding man’s Total Inability from birth?

If we are born completely unable to see, hear, understand or respond willingly to the word of God, as the doctrine of Total Inability suggests, wouldn’t Satan’s work to blind people and snatch away the word be completely unnecessary and redundant?

Imagine visiting your local cemetery and discovering they hired a person to put blind folds and ear plugs on the corpses lest they respond willingly to the sights and sounds around the graveyard. Would this strike you as peculiar? . . .​

Bro.Flowers,

Calvin said (and I know many do not what for him to be quoted) and I paraphrase, that when God speaks through the Scriptures He is speaking and condescending like a father or mother talking baby talk like gibberish to His children, speaking so they can understand him.

Forgive me for not reading through the entire thread, but it seems we may have missed the fact that God uses all types of metaphors, similes, laws, prophets, repetition, and many other methods in the Bible to "show and tell" us of our sin and the danger of it to us.

I will let all who read this draw their own conclusions for the discussions at hand.

rd