The Religion of George Washington

Well, it is certainly true that we cannot know with 100% accuracy whether or not any man or woman on earth is 'a true Christian'. That includes John Wesley, Martin Luther, John Calvin, you or me, or anyone else for that matter. But you seem to be doing backflips in order to say that Washington was not a Christian. In spite of the many quotations regarding his beliefs that have been posted here; in spite of his church memberships and attendence; in spite of his private and public thanks to God; his fervent prayers etc. I don't know of any president who has spoken or behaved more like a true Christian than Washington. Or one who has more frequently spoken of his dependence on, and gratitude to God. Why go out of your way to cast doubt?

Well, it is very fashionable to be an iconoclast these days.

 

I disagree. Tidewater planters could be vicious, self-indulgent, with a strong sense of entitlement. Washington was none of those things.

We know of at least one occasion. According to his adopted daughter, at the deathbed of a family member, "he knelt by her and prayed most fervently, most affectingly, for her recovery."

Well it was as regular as could be expected in a time of miserable roads and frequent illness.

Again according to his adopted daughter, "He attended the church at Alexandria, when the weather and roads permitted a ride of ten miles. In New York and Philadelphia he never omitted attendance at church in the morning, unless detained by indisposition.".

No one has suggested that it was.


***
You have compared Washington’s faith to Jefferson’s, but there was no similarity. As a Deist, Jefferson had no conception of a creator who involved himself in the affairs of men. Washington, on the other hand, saw God’s hand daily in the events that he was a part of. As a man who had been involved in warfare since his early teens - everything from squad-sized fights up small armies, he believed that only the miraculous could explain his army’s victories, much less it’s very survival. He was literally "astonished" by it.

Somehow that doesn’t surprise me!

 

Martin,
There is NO comparison between Jefferson and Washington in this regards, period! You really should stop with that comparison, as it is simply meant to diminish the character of Washington.
A) You will not find derogatory remarks from Washington, such as atheist often like to quote of Jefferson. In regards to Christianity and religion in general. In fact all you will find from Washington is high reverence for the Lord.
B) Washington sincerely called upon the Lord in private prayer, prayer duties for all the army, and National prayers to all the people. This he did often, of which Jefferson rarely did in comparison. It is simply insulting to compare such.
C) Washington truly lived a life of a Christian.
D) The greatest insight and only one really needed, however comes from Washington's family, constituents, and the nation as a whole.


It absolutely baffles me that someone would even attempt that comparison. As nobody who reads history, or any credible historian I recall, does such! It is simply a terrible analogy.

Much of the deragatory elements listed by a few on this board has been shown to be false or erroneous in nature. Some of the information provided having come from atheistic and/or separatist/secular sites. Some absolutely blatant lies were pointed out along with misleading information! Yet some of the same information continues to be reposted within these threads, without noting such?

One site listed, says Washington NEVER said "Jesus" or "Christ" in his many thousands of letters. This is a blatant lie! That he rarely spoke of religion or God. This is a lie! That he had to be a deist because of his strong ties with masons. This is also a lie and misrepresenting. That he rarely attended Church or never. This is a lie and misrepresentative. That only a small percentage of the American population attended Church. This is a lie and also misrepresentative.



All the above is simply meant to deceive people by these sites. Now again and again, to re-clarify a few things.:BangHead:

A) Washington attended Church fairly regular, at times twice in a day. In fact he strongly and intimately supported several, was involved with the construction of one.
B) No they did not attend Church every Sunday or Wednesday(if such) as we are able. Often there was no Preacher available and for weeks at a time. In addition the trip was 3 or more hours horseback or carriage, depending on which Church they went to. Not something to be made in inclement weather or with people who may be ill. It was much different then! You did not just drive around the corner for services.
C) Washington received written sermons from Preachers all around the nation. This was done simply because of the great respect and admiration of the man and his faith. He collected, thus obviously valued these things. He also took the time to respond. This is much different than simply conversing with Churches and Pastors in a political fashion. Which he also did as Jefferson and others. However, the above goes directly to faith and respect of and for!
D) In regards to the erroneous stats, with few Americans attending established Church regularly. These are simply erroneous and misleading because; First, they do not point out the above as many faced the same problems! Second, and most importantly, most of America was sparse and wilderness. Thus most communities early on had what would be called non-denominational Churches or gathering places. These are NEVER included in those stats.




Nobody is saying Washington was a Bible thumping, evangelical driven, flock gathering Christian. Maybe he was in his own way, maybe he was not! He appears to have been very devout in faith and very personal! However, to degrade the man by continuing to suggest otherwise, though all the evidence points otherwise, is wrong.

His actions, letters, words, along with how his family and constituents viewed him speaks VOLUMES! By the way, most of what I have posted in such regards does not come from Novaks, "Washington's God". Some comes directly from his personal writting as I am proud owner of an early 1800's book containing such. Most can be found in his public and/or private writtings from the National Archives or Library of Congress.



I will post a letter from his granddaughter next. Sorry so long.

Ralph:jesus:

 

Again what his family and constituents says speaks volumes of him. In addition to his own words, letters, and actions! To correct something I spelled it as "Curtis" when in fact is "Custis". Nelly Custis-Lewis was Washington's adopted daughter, Martha's granddaughter.

You can get a few other interesting aspects from this site or others.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g011.html
This site gives a couple of interesting insights, and to his questionable baptism. Though I am not saying such as nothing definitive I am aware of.http://logosresourcepages.org/IronPen/ironpen80.htm

Whether he was a Baptist or not matters not to me. One thing is for sure however. He would have never been a back-seat Baptist, ha.:smilewinkgrin:
He was a good man and I believe good Christian.


Take care.
In Christ, Ralph

 

Well Martin, you began the thread questioning whether or not Washington really was a Christian. Some of us answered, giving our arguments as to why we believe that he is. You basically pushed those aside and said again, "prove it". And of course there is no way anyone can prove another's salvation.

I believe George W. Bush is a Christian because he has said so. Because he has been baptized, he reads the Bible, and prays for God's guidance. You cannot prove that he is not.

His doctrine is obviously in error if he really believes that Muslims worship the same god as Christians. That doesn't really bother me a whole lot, since I never thought of him as a theologian. I think that he made those statements in an effort to avoid offending Muslims who may be our allies. In the same way, Jimmy Carter addressed Ayatollah Khomeini as a 'fellow man of God' when he was trying to flatter him. As far as I know, no one questions Jimmy Carter's salvation.

 

Martin, I appreciated your original post and it contained legitimate questions in regards to Washington's faith. "Was George Washington a Christian, Deist, or somewhere in between?" In replying I said "He was a very personal Christian, definitely not a Deist". In addition I took issue to again correct some erroneous notions and as posted by a few others.

I agree there is no way to know for certain whether he was a born-again and saved Christian. As Niteshift said, there is no way of knowing with absolute certainty of anyone other than oneself. In my opinion he probably was given all the information and personal accounts. I noted he without question was not a deist and "very personal" with his faith. Such things sincerely suggest he was a real or true Christian.



Your statement

simply is not accurate. It paints a picture of a person of shallow or no real faith. This just is not an accurate account of George Washington. It is indeed a better description of a Jefferson, whom you subsequently then began comparing. Whom Washington scoffed at himself in his farewell address over religious views.


Yes, Washington often used general language with his public statements and prayers. This so as to appeal to everyone and in addition, the customs/practices were of a different time. However, Washington also often spoke in very personal and sincere language. His family and others also give many accounts of personal prayer or actions by him in these regards!



Your subsequent posts went beyond simply pondering whether he was truly born again or not. They tend to cast doubt to his faith all together. You say you have not compared him to Jefferson as such, but your posts convey these things. Which I and a few others take issue with.

Most these statements or "suggestions" could not be further from the truth! Social convention? You can also debate all you wish as to how often Washington, or anyone for that matter, attended Church in those days. History and historical accounts say he went quite often. As much as possible or could be expected. If we were to be honest, how many of us would travel 3 hours or more on a regular basis for Sunday services? It goes without saying via horseback/carriage and over bad roads and/or inclement weather! Yet he and many of the time did just that. In addition, being a vestryman and supporting his Churches was not something required or expected. It was something a person simply did from the heart and voluntarily. In light of his extraordinary tasks as Commander of our Army and then President of a new Nation. It says a lot about him.

Lastly his adopted daughter Nelly does give an account of his having taken holy "sacraments". Though many, including you, say he never has or did. This would have been Holy Communion, Baptism, and/or Confirmation. All these things are of a public/private devotion and admission of our Lord Jesus as Savior. http://www.stpaulsriverside.org/life/sacraments/sacraments.htm
As noted he often called upon the Lord to forgive us of our sins and transgressions. These things show a very personal and sincere exhibition of faith. There is nothing “formal” or “cool” in these many instances.

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/to...deng/parsed&tag=public&part=303&division=div1

http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/to...odeng/parsed&tag=public&part=35&division=div1

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field(DOCID+@lit(gw030362))

“

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/mgw:@field(DOCID+@lit(gw050226))


My ulr addresses are not coming up at the Library of Congress for some reason. The University of Virginia is fine. You can search there or by date/text at the LOC.


Take care, Ralph

In Christ:godisgood:

 

You assume too much. I believe Bush is a Christian because I generally take people at their word regarding matters of faith. Just as I take Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Jimmy Carter at their word when they claim to be Christian.

 

You ask me for one example of George Washington 'praying fervently', I provide it, and you say that proves nothing.

There's nothing like trying to kick one over the goalposts when they keep moving.