The Resurrection Question

[tyndale1946]

Do you believe in a fleshly, bodily resurrection according to these verses in the OT? If not then what is Job talking about?... How can we compare this with 1 Corinthians 15?... Preachers, teachers, and learned brethren, and full preterist what do we do with Job?... Brother Glen

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Sorry I forgot another witness!

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Oops I forgot the best one!

Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

 

[Darrell C]

Do you believe in a fleshly, bodily resurrection according to these verses in the OT? If not then what is Job talking about?... How can we compare this with 1 Corinthians 15?... Preachers, teachers, and learned brethren, and full preterist what do we do with Job?... Brother Glen

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Sorry I forgot another witness!

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Probably the first thing to do would be to examine the translation and see if the original text carries the implication of "...yet in my flesh."

If it does not, then we would maintain the New Testament principle that glorification was a mystery not revealed in the Old Testament, and see Job as stating a simple truth: he would, though he died, be with God in the latter day.

If you interested you look here to see the original text and how it is translated.

A few translations add footnotes:




Job 19:25-27

English Standard Version (ESV)


25
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.[a]

26
And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,

27
whom I shall see for myself,
and my eyes shall behold, and not another.
My heart faints within me!


Footnotes:
a.Job 19:25 Hebrew dust
b.Job 19:26 Or without




Job 19:25-27

New International Version (NIV)


25
I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.

26
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[c] in[d] my flesh I will see God;

27
I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!


Footnotes:
a.Job 19:25 Or vindicator
b.Job 19:25 Or on my grave
c.Job 19:26 Or And after I awake, / though this body has been destroyed, / then
d.Job 19:26 Or destroyed, / apart from



I don't think we can perfectly equate it to 1 Corinthians 15, but I do think that the foundational principle of resurrection was known to the Old Testament Saints, and believe that Job had an expectation of resurrection, just as many in Christ's day did.

Those who arose on the Day of Crucifixion were, in my view, raised physically only. Had they been raised in glorified bodies this would nullify the teachings that show Christ as the first to be raised in glorified form.


God bless.

 

[tyndale1946]

Probably the first thing to do would be to examine the translation and see if the original text carries the implication of "...yet in my flesh."

If it does not, then we would maintain the New Testament principle that glorification was a mystery not revealed in the Old Testament, and see Job as stating a simple truth: he would, though he died, be with God in the latter day.

If you interested you look here to see the original text and how it is translated.

A few translations add footnotes:




Job 19:25-27

English Standard Version (ESV)


25
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth.[a]

26
And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,

27
whom I shall see for myself,
and my eyes shall behold, and not another.
My heart faints within me!


Footnotes:
a.Job 19:25 Hebrew dust
b.Job 19:26 Or without




Job 19:25-27

New International Version (NIV)


25
I know that my redeemer[a] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.

26
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[c] in[d] my flesh I will see God;

27
I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!


Footnotes:
a.Job 19:25 Or vindicator
b.Job 19:25 Or on my grave
c.Job 19:26 Or And after I awake, / though this body has been destroyed, / then
d.Job 19:26 Or destroyed, / apart from



I don't think we can perfectly equate it to 1 Corinthians 15, but I do think that the foundational principle of resurrection was known to the Old Testament Saints, and believe that Job had an expectation of resurrection, just as many in Christ's day did.

Those who arose on the Day of Crucifixion were, in my view, raised physically only. Had they been raised in glorified bodies this would nullify the teachings that show Christ as the first to be raised in glorified form.


God bless.

John Gill states that some in his day believed that one of the resurrected saints that arose when Jesus was crucified was Job!... Of course that is only speculation but who knows?... I've always wondered and this to is speculation those who were raised where did they go?... Also Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead... Did he have to die again?... Again speculation... Only saying... Brother Glen

 

[Darrell C]

John Gill states that some in his day believed that one of the resurrected saints that arose when Jesus was crucified was Job!...

No reason not to think Job may have been raised, other than the unlikelihood that his locale was Jerusalem. And never really gave it much thought but I have just kind of assumed that Job was a resident of the land Abraham dwelt in before being called. And that is based on the speculation that Job and Abraham were contemporaries or near about, and that Job is the earliest known writing we have.

Of course that is only speculation but who knows?...

We don't, but some things are okay to speculate about, in my view.

I've always wondered and this to is speculation those who were raised where did they go?...

They went into Jerusalem and preached the Gospel would be my guess.

I base my view that they were only raised physically on such passages as...


Colossians 1:18

King James Version (KJV)

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


1 Corinthians 15:20-23

King James Version (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.




The first quote could be argued that "firstborn is simply a title of rank, rather than a sequential order, but the second I don't think could be convincingly argued that way.

It is most likely those who arose from the grave were locals who would not raise too much attention because likely the only ones who knew they were dead would be family. To further our adventure in speculation we could also suggest that in view are martyrs, those killed by Rome or the Religious Rulers of Israel...for faith in Christ, to the extent that people could have faith in Christ before the Comforter came. The blind man was brought into an uncomfortable position because he refused to deny that Christ had healed him...


John 9:28-34

King James Version (KJV)

28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.

29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.

30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.

31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.

33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.

34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

Also Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead... Did he have to die again?...

Yes. And may have been one that rose again, which, if that did happen, means that poor soul had to die three times.

Ouch.

Again speculation... Only saying... Brother Glen

I take a pretty dogmatic view that Christ was the First to rise from the dead. It's an important point, I think, and one that is a good point of discussion. My Pastor believes they were glorified, and that they were a "firstfruits harvest" from the dead, but again, this would have them glorified before Christ, and while "Firstborn" may be a title, I think there is good reason to see Christ's victory over death as the first of it's kind.


God bless.

 

[OldRegular]

Do you believe in a fleshly, bodily resurrection according to these verses in the OT? If not then what is Job talking about?... How can we compare this with 1 Corinthians 15?... Preachers, teachers, and learned brethren, and full preterist what do we do with Job?... Brother Glen

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

Sorry I forgot another witness!

Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Oops I forgot the best one!

Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

Those words from Job are a wonderful assertion of the bodily resurrection just as John 5:28, 29 give us a picture of that resurrection, both the redeemed and the lost. The resurrection body will be like that of Jesus Christ as described more fully by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Certainly the lost will not have a glorified body but a body that will live eternally in the lake of fire.

I would also note that there really is no indication that those mentioned in the passage from Matthew had glorified bodies and did not return to the grave.

 

[tyndale1946]

Those words from Job are a wonderful assertion of the bodily resurrection just as John 5:28, 29 give us a picture of that resurrection, both the redeemed and the lost. The resurrection body will be like that of Jesus Christ as described more fully by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. Certainly the lost will not have a glorified body but a body that will live eternally in the lake of fire.

I would also note that there really is no indication that those mentioned in the passage from Matthew had glorified bodies and did not return to the grave.

So then Job is talking about a glorified flesh... A non corrupted flesh according to Paul!... Without a sin nature... Brother Glen

Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[OldRegular]

So then Job is talking about a glorified flesh... A non corrupted flesh according to Paul!... Without a sin nature... Brother Glen

I really don't know. I believe revelation is progressive and the words of Job are one of the few in the Old Testament regarding the resurrection. Obviously as has been revealed in the New Testament the resurrected body of the Saint is not the same as that that went into the grave.

That being said the words of Job give me great joy each time I read them.

Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The above passage teaches the end of death so it cannot have reference to the so-called rapture but to the resurrection of John 5:28, 29.

 

[tyndale1946]

I really don't know. I believe revelation is progressive and the words of Job are one of the few in the Old Testament regarding the resurrection. Obviously as has been revealed in the New Testament the resurrected body of the Saint is not the same as that that went into the grave.

That being said the words of Job give me great joy each time I read them.



The above passage teaches the end of death so it cannot have reference to the so-called rapture but to the resurrection of John 5:28, 29.

So-called rapture?... Well to each his own!... Brother Glen:thumbsup: