Sorry, I've done no such thing.
First, I don't equate "poor" and "workers" with "unions." Those aren't necessarily the same thing.
Second, I've not said all rich folks earned their money fairly.
What I have condemned is wealth envy.
But overall, in many of the conservative statements (including what I had quoted), it does sound like a very generalized lumping of all of these different groups as "envying" and "making the rich evil" and such.
Any time anyone mentions a subject like this, that is what is readily thrown up at us.
A few thoughts. First I never said everyone or anyone should work 80 hours/wk, you missed my point completely. My point is that many people don't see and/or understand the risk and effort that some have put in for many years prior to the current point in time. It is only after all that when people then look at someones situation and say he isn't working hard enough for or doesn't really deserve what he is earning, in comparison to what others are earning. My point is not that everyone should, but rather than anyone has the opportunity to do so, and that for those that do it is wrong, and detrimental to our country's economy to want to punish people that take that risk and employ so many of the workers in this country.
As far as whether it is good or not to work hard, well I believe that when a man is young, healthy and able it is a good thing (and biblical) to work hard an be as productive as possible. But you missed this point again, it has nothing to do with greed, I have never cared much about money or "things" as you allude to, what I cared about was creating something that was good, accomplishing something of value, being fair to and helping people in the process. As far as what is good for my family as you also allude to, I worked hard while I was younger in order that I might be blessed enough to be able to be home and spend as much quality time with my wife and children as we raise our children. I think the bible gives us many examples of a father being able to have his son around him, along side him throughout the day to learn about God, and what is important in life. For myself it was worth every hard hour of work while younger in order to have that time later with him, my other children, and of course my wife.
But we are getting off the topic here, and this thread it not about how much or how little is right for a young man to work in life, but instead the OP is about people paying themselves more than some feel is deserving, and not paying enough taxes. My only point in giving some behind the scene insight is that people like yourself that choose to judge how deserving others are from afar, might better realizes that there is a lot of sacrifice that goes into many people's life in order for them to accomplish what you are judging. And really what does if or not you believe working more is best or not for a person or their family have to do with whether or not they should be taxed more? If someone chooses to do so why tax them more even if it wasn't good for them or their family? How is that relevant?
Again, my point isn't so much taxing them more, but a the same time, if they
are taxed more [sometimes], people should not be weeping for them and blaming the poor for getting all the money.
What I forgot to mention yesterday, was that the way the economy goes, and with the conservative's claim "don't envy them; just take risks and pull yourself up like they did",
it seems to be getting to the point where one has to work like that in order just to make it in this country. But not everyone has the talent, temperament or timing (good fortune) or even health for it.
Lastly as far as you asking my income. Not that it is any of your business, but I was never a "top executive of a big company" as you put it, just a regular guy that worked hard and created a small company. I never paid myself that much to be in the top bracket as you suggested I should have. I paid myself enough for our needs, didn't waste and invested enough for our future. But again you missed the point, I am not defending people in the highest bracket from higher taxes because I am one of them, I am defending them because I understand and appreciate the hard work, planning and effort that must have went into creating the situation where they earn what they do. I don't begrudge their success, and I don't want our country to punish it.
You kind of missed the point each of those times. I wasn't trying to pry into your business, or claim you were "one of them", or were greedy. I prett much got the sense that you
weren't one of them.
But since you uphold and followed that path ascribed to them (working a double week, basically), I was wondering then what kept you from reaching that bracket. I guess it was your choice not to.
Fine. Still, for people to keep throwing that kind of career path at others like
that is the norm, and the solution to all economic woes, is again, to suggest that 16 hours a day (which is what 80 hours averages to)
is what is necessary to survive.
My whole point there was that assuming you are probably among those who are unhappy with taxes. (Both on yourself, as well as the rich). If that's true, then it seems that this "just work harder" response leveled at those who complain about the super wealthy is shortsighted. We all work harder, but think we all seem to think we are not getting wat we are really earning.
It seems while one side blames the wealthy, and are scolded for it, the other side is blaming the poor ("if they would only work 80 hours then they wouldn't be poor") through taxes. But I think that is very unrealistic, whether the rich "earned" all fo it or not.
In other words, if the rich demand more and more, and keep passing the costs down to everyone else, and things become tighter for you and me a like, and you insist that they earned it, and you don't want to "punish" them for that, then
you should accept having less, and not blame some other group or taxes. This is just the way it is. Capitalism is working perfectly as designed. The "most productive" are gaining all the wealth. What else do we want? Yet people defending this remain unhappy, and while criticizing others' unhappiness. They seem to insist that all the money is really flowing in the opposite direction.
And as Thinkingstuff has been pointing up, outsourcing is one example of the schemes they pull, so it's not all simply honest risks and hard work. They just do that because they are driven to gain more. For most people, it does nto seem to be any biblical work ethic (especially since most in the world aren't practicing Christians), but rather what the Bible warns about at other times.
So
that's when people begin questioning whether they all really "deserve" everything they make.
I don't know how you think I am angry at anyone from what I said. I used the word "sad". I do think it is sad that so many people in this country in this day and age shy away from honest hard work, but instead look for the easiest path they can find. But anger? No, one thing I am so thankful to God for is that He has blessed me, in that I rarely get angry.
Well, it wasn't aimed specifically at you (though I didn't know whether the shoe fit for you or not), so it was general. A lot of people are scolding others for being angry about what others have, while they themselves are also angry, because they think something is being taken from them to be given to someone else; only a different group from the ones the first group was angry about.
And the generalization is going both ways. Who really are
all of these people who "shy away from work"? We imagine these "hordes" of lazy peopel all trying to take something from us for nothing. It's like we have to finsd someone to fill in for where all the disappearing money is going. we can't ever admit that the rich might have more than they deserve; after all, who are we to 'judge' that. So we just
shift this judgment to someone else. What I'm saying is that is it not completely accurate. It is overblown.
