The Rich Haven’t Always Hated Taxes

[Crabtownboy]

There was a time when people who felt that if they were blessed they then should not begrudge others, but help them and pass the blessing on to others. This included not only rich people, but our society in general. I remember this idea being often expressed in one way or another when I was a kid. It seems greed has overtaken the Christian belief in charity and helping those who have less and need help.

Mitt Romney has proclaimed, "I pay all the taxes that are legally required, not a dollar more." While most Americans may not agree with his tax rate (14%), few would disagree with his sentiment. Almost no one willingly pays more taxes than required. Yet there was a time when elites willingly acknowledged that they should pay far higher rates than others. In fact, when the income tax was first regularly put into place in 1913, the well-off were the only ones required to pay it.


Yet in the 1970s, this attitude began to change. Elites began to use their increasing political power to lower their taxes, an effort that came to fruition under Ronald Reagan. Today our elites employ what political scientist Jeffrey Winters calls “the income defense industry” to greatly reduce their taxes. These lawyers, lobbyists, and tax consultants have worked to protect the wealthy with special laws, legally move money to special places like the Cayman Islands and Switzerland, and undermine progressive taxation.


Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2012/09/18/the-rich-havent-always-hated-taxes/#ixzz27MonWHiB

 

[Don]

Crabby, that's downright deceitful. Giving of taxes which are used for the purpose of government is one thing; charitable giving above and beyond just paying taxes is quite another. And we all know--including you--that Romney gave more than his "fair share" of charitable giving.

 

[Crabtownboy]

Crabby, that's downright deceitful. Giving of taxes which are used for the purpose of government is one thing; charitable giving above and beyond just paying taxes is quite another. And we all know--including you--that Romney gave more than his "fair share" of charitable giving.

Just a bit of history Don and my take on the majority of people in our society today and especially the Republican conservatives and Tea Party folk.

I am not sure what you mean by "fair share", but that is a topic for another thread.

But we did see Romney's attitude toward the less well off in his 47% comment and to me it reflects the thinking of many people in our society ... one that I believe is quite un-Christian. To me this attitude/belief flies in the fact of, "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

My post was not so much a criticism of Romney as a condemnation of a popularly held belief in our society. I fear many in our society have come to believe that if a person is poor they are automatically lazy, irresponsible and brought their troubles on themselves and do not deserve help. To me this is anathema to the teachings of Christ. And there was a time, at least where I grew up, where it was believed that those with less should be helped. I believe in both paying taxes and in charity in helping others.

 

[targus]

Just a bit of history?

In 1913 the top individual rate was 7%

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe that the less fortunate should be helped as well. Just not through the government. The government is the most inefficient way to to it and places to much control over peoples lives.




What is unChristian is to pretend that if it does not happen through government it does not happen at all.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I believe that the less fortunate should be helped as well. Just not through the government. The government is the most inefficient way to to it and places to much control over peoples lives.

I would rather the government spend more money on helping those in need and less on killing innocent civilians in other countries. I see Christ teaching the need of helping others. I do not see him teaching we need to kill people ... especially innocent people and calling it collateral damage.

What is unChristian is to pretend that if it does not happen through government it does not happen at all.

I do not believe I said it had to be through government. Concerning this belief I was speaking of the widely held belief that the poor and those in need are irresponsible and are not deserving of help. To me this is a violates the teaching of Christ and the example of his life.

And I would rather see the government provide help than no help be given. Yes, it would be better if such help came through churches. But as far as I can see that is not about to happen on a scale that would be required to meet the need.

 

[Revmitchell]

I would rather the government spend more money on helping those in need and less on killing innocent civilians in other countries. I see Christ teaching the need of helping others. I do not see him teaching we need to kill people ... especially innocent people and calling it collateral damage.

You have to be regularly educated on reality. Why is that? If we stopped 100 % of all military spending we still could not balance the budget because of entitlements. In fact if we spent taxes on nothing else but entitlements we still could not balance the budget.

I do not believe I said it had to be through government. Concerning this belief I was speaking of the widely held belief that the poor and those in need are irresponsible and are not deserving of help. To me this is a violates the teaching of Christ and the example of his life.

I no of no one who assumes this.

And I would rather see the government provide help than no help be given. Yes, it would be better if such help came through churches. But as far as I can see that is not about to happen on a scale that would be required to meet the need.

Because that is what you want to see.

 

[Crabtownboy]

You have to be regularly educated on reality. Why is that? If we stopped 100 % of all military spending we still could not balance the budget because of entitlements. In fact if we spent taxes on nothing else but entitlements we still could not balance the budget.

I do not believe I touched on any of these topics. I simply said I would rather we spent more on helping people than in killing people.

I no of no one who assumes this.

It is always dangerous to assume, especially on this BB.

Because that is what you want to see.

What do you see?

 

[Oldtimer]

I believe that the less fortunate should be helped as well. Just not through the government. The government is the most inefficient way to to it and places to much control over peoples lives.

What is unChristian is to pretend that if it does not happen through government it does not happen at all.

AMEN and AMEN.

Especially since the government was a major player in creating so many in this "less fortunate" and "entitled" society.

Today I'm one of the 47%.

Nothing gets my ire up much more than bleeding heart liberals wanting to increase our numbers. Wanting to strike fear in our hearts that someone wants to cut off the hand that feeds us.

I do believe the less fortunate should be helped. Further, I practice what I preach. Indeed help feed the scriptures version of "widows and orphans". Far too many today have become the government's version of "widows and orphans".

When abled bodied men and women refuse job offers because they're feeding at the government trough, I'm reminded of scriptures.

Proverbs - KJB
20:4 The sluggard will not plow by reason of the cold; therefore shall he beg in harvest, and have nothing.
21:25 The desire of the slothful killeth him; for his hands refuse to labour.

2 Thessalonians 3: KJB
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Those are the ones who will vote to keep the handouts coming. Some of us will vote according to these scriptures.

 

[InTheLight]

There was a time when people who felt that if they were blessed they then should not begrudge others, but help them and pass the blessing on to others. It seems greed has overtaken the Christian belief in charity and helping those who have less and need help.

You are conflating government taxation with charitable giving. Having the government extract dollars via taxation is not "passing the blessing on to others."

:BangHead:

 

[Crabtownboy]

You are conflating government taxation with charitable giving. Having the government extract dollars via taxation is not "passing the blessing on to others."

:BangHead:

No, I am saying what people believed when I was young. Seems as our society has become richer we have become greedier as well.

Do you approve of the government extract money to kill innocent civilians in other countries as a blessing?

What would you rather our government do, help people or kill them?

 

[billwald]

The post WW2 "middle class" bubble caused people to expect to be richer every year. Now that the bubble has popped I think the kids in school now will come to their senses and not buy toys on credit.

 

[InTheLight]

Do you approve of the government extract money to kill innocent civilians in other countries as a blessing?

What would you rather our government do, help people or kill them?

You're derailing your own thread.

 

[Don]

The government "help" people?!?

Then how about focusing on what the government is supposed to do: reduce unnecessary restrictions that stifle economic progress, thus making it easier for individual taxpayers to give more to the areas that they individually deem important? Rather than force all taxpayers to give to whatever the government deems are the "worthy causes"?

You really seem to have no for the biblical concept of individual responsibility.

 

[Revmitchell]

I do not believe I touched on any of these topics. I simply said I would rather we spent more on helping people than in killing people.






It is always dangerous to assume, especially on this BB.





What do you see?

Well dodge all you want. But you are suggesting that charity come through taxes and that the rich used to enjoy the government controlling our charity. Its a lie. And you also suggested that bringing and end to the military will then give more relief to the "needy". its not true, it will leave us defenseless and is just wrongheaded.

 

[LadyEagle]

Great posts, Old Timer and ITL.

And, yes, CTB, you are trying to derail your own thread. The rich paying taxes has nothing to do with government killing. Start another thread about that. Thanks.

I read somewhere that even if you tax the rich 100%, it would only take care of about 1 week's worth of interest on our national debt. The problem is spending, not taxes.