The Road Not Taken

[TadQueasy]

One of the best articles I have ever read.

Oh that the church would grasp this.

http://ftc.co/resource-library/blog-entries/the-road-not-taken

 

[InTheLight]

Sorry, but my takeaway from this article was that churches that use modern techniques to teach and preach the gospel are not being faithful to their calling. Modern music - - bad. Hymn books- - good. Large churches - - bad. Small churches - - good. Large churches - - don't know and obey the word. Small churches - - know and obey the word.

From the article :
* The problem is that making quantitative, numeric metrics of success does not measure up to what the Bible says in regards to our objectives.*
----

The Bible is full of numeric outcomes. I understand where the author is coming from - - some churches live and die by numbers but it doesn't have to be that way. Unfortunately, the author states that large churches and faithful Christians are mutually exclusive. This is wrong.

 

[TadQueasy]

Sorry, but my takeaway from this article was that churches that use modern techniques to teach and preach the gospel are not being faithful to their calling. Modern music - - bad. Hymn books- - good. Large churches - - bad. Small churches - - good. Large churches - - don't know and obey the word. Small churches - - know and obey the word.

You took away from the article what you wanted. That was not the authors point.

 

[InTheLight]

You took away from the article what you wanted. That was not the authors point.

The author's point is that churches should be true to the Word (only) and not get caught up in numbers. He definitely says large churches cannot be true to the Word. I reject that.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[TadQueasy]

He definitely says large churches cannot be true to the Word. I reject that.

Can you share with me the quote where the author says this?

 

[Revmitchell]

Can you share with me the quote where the author says this?

"Now I know what some might be thinking at this point: “Can’t it be both? Can’t you seek Kingdom Growth through church growth and at the same time have the foremost desire to obey the dogma of the Bible?” The answer is, in Frost’s vernacular, “Sorry, you cannot travel both.”

 

[TadQueasy]

"Now I know what some might be thinking at this point: “Can’t it be both? Can’t you seek Kingdom Growth through church growth and at the same time have the foremost desire to obey the dogma of the Bible?” The answer is, in Frost’s vernacular, “Sorry, you cannot travel both.”

Sorry that in no way says that large churches cannot be true to the Word.

 

[Revmitchell]

Sorry that in no way says that large churches cannot be true to the Word.

In the context of what was said prior to that .....yes it does.

 

[TadQueasy]

In the context of what was said prior to that .....yes it does.

No, try again.

 

[Revmitchell]

No, try again.

Don't have too.

 

[TadQueasy]

Don't have too.

Just say you don't have a quote. No need to beat around the bush.

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't have the patience to explain to you why 1+1=2 tonight. I will leave you to it.

 

[TadQueasy]

I don't have the patience to explain to you why 1+1=2 tonight. I will leave you to it.

Wise move considering you have no leg to stand on.

Have a good evening.

 

[InTheLight]

Can you share with me the quote where the author says this?

What Revmitchell said.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[TadQueasy]

What Revmitchell said.

I see you have nothing either.
Thats too bad you two are missing a good article

 

[righteousdude2]

One of the best articles I have ever read.

Oh that the church would grasp this.

http://ftc.co/resource-library/blog-entries/the-road-not-taken

Matthew 7:13-14 says it best. Although I love this poem! There are definitely 2 roads, and I think you and I know that a lot of folks are not really on the Narrow Path, even though they think they are! To much religion and and not enough relationship!

 

[Rolfe]

In the context of what was said prior to that .....yes it does.

That is how I understood it.

 

[JonC]

That's not how I understood the article at all. I think that the author is looking at the focus of the church (on increasing numbers vs faithfulness to the Word), not at the results of that focus (as God grows these "faithful churches" and not man). I would have described the difference as being between preaching Scripture and developing a marketing strategy. One relies on pragmatic methods while the other tries to be obedient (regardless of "church growth.")

There are comments that make me lean towards the conclusion that the author is speaking of motivation and not size of a church:

“These churches are typically (but not always) small, and, as far as the world is concerned, they usually lack in influence.”

"Our joy doesn’t rise and fall from the ebb and flow of earthly success. Our lives are enriched and full of identity and meaning when we reject pragmatism and simply seek to know, obey, and proclaim His Word."

"Like most of you reading, I have found little success at times when I’m working for it the hardest; and I’ve stumbled into great success when I’ve done absolutely nothing."

I attend a very pragmatic church and have often thought of leaving. Church (for me and my family) is in the small group setting and not the weekly show. So my understanding of the article may be colored by my own experience.

 

[Iconoclast]

One of the best articles I have ever read.

Oh that the church would grasp this.

http://ftc.co/resource-library/blog-entries/the-road-not-taken

This issue is going to around for quite awhile.It triggers several thoughts along the spectrum.:wavey:

There are many small churches that are dead and the people do not know it. They will tell you that they are small because people do not want the truth.

This might indeed be true...or maybe the people are not friendly ,or obedient to the one another passages in scripture.

In some small works the people might want to do more but be old and feeble.
In some the pastor might be to domineering.

For the most part very large churches are unfaithful in many things.
It gets disguised by so many flesh pleasing activities.
it would be nice if there was more of a blend...but fleshly people do not like to hold the line. They like compromise instead.Sometimes they do not know what the line is...or they would not be draw to the flesh pleasing activities to begin with.

The both sets or kinds of churches will defend what they do of course, but so do scoundrels and cults.

In a larger church faithful people can be squashed by the pressure of the fleshly multitude.

 

[Don]

Tad - two quotes from the article that support ITL and Rev's conclusion:

And finally the same could be asked about the pragmatic church’s programs. In the pragmatic church the fundamental question is, “What programs can we innovate to get more people here?” While the church anchored in the dogma of Scripture says, “We simply want to do the things they did in the Bible. We seek a 1:1 relationship between the activity of the first century church and our church activity.”

The implication is that for the bigger church, the focus is on making it even bigger; while for the smaller church, the focus is on taking the road less traveled. The further implication is that the bigger church will always look to be bigger.

In pursuing the dogmatic church I crucify desires of fame and popularity. It means it’s likely I’ll never serve in auspicious positions, large churches, or ever be asked to preach in big venues. It likely means ministry in a small place at the end of a career cul-de-sac.

If you are not a pastor it might mean driving a little further to the smaller church that properly exposits the Bible. Or perhaps it means taking your family and children to the church without the climbing wall and trampoline room. Maybe it means going to the church that still uses hymnbooks.

Again, the author conveys the idea that bigger churches sacrifice biblical doctrine for those things that help make the church bigger.

Just my two cents.