The rod

[Isaiah40:28]

Either you believe it is ok to beat a child with a rod like the bible says, or you do not. This is for everyone who holds to this belief.
If we beat a child with a rod he will not die? Of course he could die if we beat him with a rod We are trying to modify this verse, to tone it down to re-label it spanking.

The rod is figurative. It can't be read any other way. See my post #2

The rod is symbolic for godly discipline, correction and guidance. It is not an object used to strike a child to inflict pain.

Imo, when you read most of the passages regarding discipline, they practically indicate all children are full of folly and if the parents don't spank or physically hurt these children, then they could be destining their children to hell.
Obviously we know a good majority of children behave so well just a look is correction enough. So the rod is not a physical object.

Quote:
Proverbs 22:15"Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him."

"Do not withhold discipline from a child; If you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod, And save his soul from death. "

"The rod of correction imparts wisdom, But a child left to himself disgraces his mother." 29:15

"He who spares the rod hates his son, But he who loves him is careful to discipline him.

"Your rod and your staff, they comfort me" The shepherd's staff was used to guide the wandering sheep along the right path. The rod was used to beat off predators--not to strike the straying sheep .Ps. 23:4


"Shall I come to you with a rod, or in love and a spirit of gentleness?" 1 Cor. 4:21

And...WWJD

Are you by any chance, familiar with what is referred to as "grace-based parenting"?

 

[webdog]

At what age do you not use corporal punishment? According to Scripture, if you use the rod as literal, this is the only means of punishment until your children are adults.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

If I remember correctly, children were not considered adults in Bible times until they reached 30 years of age. Read that somewhere many years ago.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I asked you first ...

Either you believe it is ok to beat a child with a rod like the bible says, or you do not. This is for everyone who holds to this belief.
If we beat a child with a rod he will not die? Of course he could die if we beat him with a rod :BangHead: We are trying to modify this verse, to tone it down to re-label it spanking.

The rod is figurative. It can't be read any other way. See my post #2

Whether the child dies or not is dependant upon which part of the child's body the rod is used on and how hard the rod is used in beating said child. As a child, I was hit across the back and legs with switches. While they left welts, I did not die. I have been hit with sticks. Again, it is obvious my punishment did not kill me.

I see no reason to doubt the reality of the rod Solomon so wisely wrote of. The rod was not figurative as you would imagine.

 

[Rubato 1]

If we beat a child with a rod he will not die? Of course he could die if we beat him with a rod.

He could die from eating too much chocolate cake.

 

[Joe]

Are you by any chance, familiar with what is referred to as "grace-based parenting"?

I don't think so

 

[Joe]

Whether the child dies or not is dependant upon which part of the child's body the rod is used on and how hard the rod is used in beating said child. As a child, I was hit across the back and legs with switches. While they left welts, I did not die. I have been hit with sticks. Again, it is obvious my punishment did not kill me.

I don't see your point. You shouldn't be killed SFIC, and you shouldn't have visual scars from the physical abuse you endured as a child at the hand of the one that should have been protecting you. Children who are beaten like that are usually quite wild and get into much trouble, often legal trouble. The more spankings, the higher the severity of physical abuse, the more likely they are to be in Prison. I'll find the studies and post the link.

I see no reason to doubt the reality of the rod Solomon so wisely wrote of. The rod was not figurative as you would imagine.

What happened to you SFIC is physical abuse. It makes people numb. It prevents them from feeling, and bonding with others. Child abuse should not be promoted on a Christian message board, or any place else for that matter. It is against the law for a reason.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I don't see your point. You shouldn't be killed SFIC, and you shouldn't have visual scars from the physical abuse you endured as a child at the hand of the one that should have been protecting you. Children who are beaten like that are usually quite wild and get into much trouble, often legal trouble. The more spankings, the higher the severity of physical abuse, the more likely they are to be in Prison. I'll find the studies and post the link.

What happened to you SFIC is physical abuse. It makes people numb. It prevents them from feeling, and bonding with others. Child abuse should not be promoted on a Christian message board, or any place else for that matter. It is against the law for a reason.

I disagree. What happened to me was due punishment set forth by the authority given to parents by God's Holy Word.

The welts I received did not scar me for life. They went away usually within an hour or two.

There have been more and more people convicted of crimes since the authority of God's Word was first questioned in Congress and spanking declared to be abuse.

What is abuse is to spare the rod. Scripture declares that one who spares the rod hates his child... not loves them.

A rod for a fool's back... does that sound like figurative to you? it doesn't to me. Beat him with many stripes... again, not figuratively.

Do you think when the Scripture says that Jesus was struck with a reed, that that was figurative? No, the rod, the reed, the beatings, the stripes, were all real.

Again, I sure was not killed when my mother obeyed the Bible in exercising punishment on me for wrongdoing. I needed every stripe I received and no more than that.

 

[abcgrad94]

If I remember correctly, children were not considered adults in Bible times until they reached 30 years of age. Read that somewhere many years ago.

I always heard that boys were considered men by age 12 and girls married as young as 14. If that was the case, wouldn't they have been considered adults?

 

[annsni]

I would say that it would most likely be 20. God said that all those Israelites who were over 20 would not see the Promised Land.

Numbers 14:29 - "Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward which have murmured against me."

Some other Scripture that makes me think 20 is an age of an adult:

Numbers 1:45 - "So were all those that were numbered of the children of Israel, by the house of their fathers, from twenty years old and upward, all that were able to go forth to war in Israel;"

Exodus 30:14 - "Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD."

 

[Allan]

I always heard that boys were considered men by age 12 and girls married as young as 14. If that was the case, wouldn't they have been considered adults?

They were considered grown up enough to marry but not considered full flegded members of sociaty, or better, not able to be fully active in any and all aspects of their sociaty. The ages were actaully reversed. Girls - 12 and Boys - 13 if memory serves. You might be right however on the ages but I know the girls were considered mature before the boys. (even now )

 

[annsni]

At what age do you not use corporal punishment? According to Scripture, if you use the rod as literal, this is the only means of punishment until your children are adults.

Honestly, I find that in teaching, disciplining and guiding our children, spankings were pretty much eliminated by the time they hit around 8 or 9. After that time, I found that the children understood respect and being obedient and rarely needed discipline on these issues (disrespect and disobedience are the 2 offenses that will just about guarantee a spanking in our home) and for other issues (being lazy, irresponsible and such are the issues that we deal at this later age), spanking is not always the proper response but instead we use other consequences. Just today, my son was having a TERRIBLE time getting his school work done and was driving me NUTS! So instead of spanking him (which might have worked), he is up right now finishing his schoolwork instead of playing and bedtime was moved up an hour because "he's obviously tired and needs more sleep" (what I've told him). This way he's learning at 7 that if you do not finish what you are supposed to finish by a deadline, you need to give up your own free time to finish it.

This has all worked effectively in our home.

 

[Revmitchell]

I asked you first ...

Either you believe it is ok to beat a child with a rod like the bible says, or you do not. This is for everyone who holds to this belief.
If we beat a child with a rod he will not die? Of course he could die if we beat him with a rod :BangHead: We are trying to modify this verse, to tone it down to re-label it spanking.

The rod is figurative. It can't be read any other way. See my post #2

Even if it were figurative as you say and the word "beat" held the context you claim it does it would not work. The excessivness of the word "beat" in the context you impose on it is unrealistic in this passage.

It can be used in a number of contexts. In this one it is clear that it simply means to strike. And there is no reason to take it to the excesses that you have unless you have an agenda.

 

[youngmom4]

Typical pattern, and it explains a lot.

No, the typical pattern would be: great-grandpa beat grandpa beat dad beat me, and then I beat my kids and claim that I don't know any better. However, I am a person who strongly believes in accepting responsibility for my own actions and teaches my kids the same. So, I do not beat them and claim that I can't help it because I was beaten. That would go against one of my core principles. Instead, my kids get a simple spanking that does not hurt for more than about ten minutes, if that. It teaches them to accept responsibility for their actions or face the consequences if they choose not to.

Look, if you don't believe in spanking, that's your prerogative...my argument is not that one has to spank in order to be Christian. It is only that corporal punishment is supported Biblically, so even if you don't agree with it, you can't condemn someone who chooses to use it. As long as the child is not being beaten or injured in any way, there is no problem. If you can not spank your child without losing control and hurting them, then you do not need to spank...period. FYI, I will be the first one to report someone if I have any reason to suspect they are abusing a child. Having experienced abuse myself, I don't play games. If I think you are hurting a child, you better hope I call the law and don't take matters into my own hands. Trust me...you'd rather deal with CPS than me in that situation. :BangHead: Witnessing any form of abuse gives me flashbacks, and if you have never dealt with a person experiencing a flashback, well...let's just say that I injured a 300 pound man in the middle of a flashback one time and put my ex-husband through a closet door during another. I do not condone abuse for any reason!

 

[Isaiah40:28]

At what age do you not use corporal punishment?

When your children are consistently able to respond favorably to other methods of discipline and correction.
If you don't know when that is for each of your children, pray for wisdom and study your child. It will vary from child to child and a wise and godly parent will be able to discern what methods are appropriate when.

According to Scripture, if you use the rod as literal, this is the only means of punishment until your children are adults.

The only means of punishment?
How so?