John of Japan said:Okay, how about a preacher man. Intensive Bible study proved to me also that Calvinism is wrong. Okay, I'll bow out now too. Have fun! :wavey:
It was a joke, John. Hey, this time I even remembered to us a smiley.
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John of Japan said:Okay, how about a preacher man. Intensive Bible study proved to me also that Calvinism is wrong. Okay, I'll bow out now too. Have fun! :wavey:
Way to go! See, even Calvinists have a sense of humor!:laugh: :thumbs:npetreley said:It was a joke, John. Hey, this time I even remembered to us a smiley.
So Helen and I are liars?Pastor Larry said:Intensive Bible study has never "proven" that Calvinism is wrong. It has never "proven" it right either. The biases and ideas with which one approaches the text gives way to conclusions. Where you come down on, to some degree, will depend on which texts you give priority to, and the degree to which logic drives your system.
It's been 35 years for me. :type:Having studied the issue for much longer than two years, I am convinced from Scripture that Calvinistic soteriology is the biblical teaching.
Edited in...John of Japan said:It's been 35 years for me. :type:
I wouldn't say that about this. Otherwise, I don't know. I know Helen has said some things that are untrue before about what I and others believe. I know that these things have been aid after they have been corrected. But I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she simply didn't understand. I don't want to think she intentionally was being untruthful. As for you, I have never had anything but good conversations with you that I can recall.So Helen and I are liars?
you would think you would learn something in that amount of time ...It's been 35 years for me.
I'll just keep on keeping on. Maybe I'll grow up spiritually one of these days. :smilewinkgrin:Pastor Larry said:you would think you would learn something in that amount of time ......
And that is what it is all about anyway, amen? :godisgood: :jesus:Allan said:But like many of the great theologians and men of God from the past, I to admit that I am but in the kiddy pool concerning the wonderous and exaulted knowledge of Almighty God.
Brother, if you preach faith alone through grace alone in Jesus alone as the only way of salvation, then I will rejoice in that.I'll just keep on keeping on. Maybe I'll grow up spiritually one of these days. :smilewinkgrin:
One thing I know, those Calvinist systematic theologies I read through didn't do me much good, and even repelled me from the doctrine (as did the Institutes).
And that is exactly what I preached today (just got back from the service)--Jesus as Bread from John 6: Bread from Heaven, God's Bread, Living Bread, the Bread of Life. :saint:Pastor Larry said:Brother, if you preach faith alone through grace alone in Jesus alone as the only way of salvation, then I will rejoice in that.
Amen, brother. Amen. :thumbs: :godisgood:John of Japan said:And that is what it is all about anyway, amen? :godisgood: :jesus:
Amen!pinoybaptist said:If tomorrow I decided to go back to Arminianism (which I highly doubt will occur), and the day after that I died, it wouldn't change the fact that if Christ died and rose from the dead to save His own, and I am one of His own, then I will be with Him for eternity.
Never said I held it in contempt. Said more or less that I didn't agree with it. My first contact with the doctrinal system was in my second year of college with a Presbyterian roommate and two 4 point Calvinist teachers. The Presbyterian was a good, godly man who held me up through a very difficult time spiritually. But he couldn't answer my doubts about the doctrine, and the teachers didn't teach the doctrine specifically.If on the other hand Helen or John of Japan or Webdog suddenly decided to turn Calvinist, or at least one who holds to the Doctrine of Grace, because they have thoroughly reviewed their current positions and in all honesty to themselves and to God turned to the doctrine they so hold in contempt....
JohnofJapan said:....... But sometimes it seems that many of the adherents (especially if they came to believe in the doctrinal system rather than being raised in it) hold in contempt those of us who do not accept it. I have seen that over and again on the BB. .....
If you want folk to believe in your doctrinal system, you'd better adorn it with humility and kindness and gentleness.
No one says the doctrine of election isn't in the bible. It most definately is, however the mechanics of that election is what we differ on.Rippon said:Calvinism is not exclusively about the doctrine of election . I have said often that it is a bit more full-orbed than that . However , I appreciate a good Spurgeon quote ( or several hundred on any teaching he deals with ) on this subject . It is from his sermon : " A defense Of Calvinism" .
I recollect an Arminian brother telling me that he had read the Scriptures through a score or more times , and could never find the doctrine of election in them . He added that he was sure he would have done so if it had been there , for he read the Word on his knees . I said to him , " I think you read the Bible in a very uncomfortable posture , and if you had read it in your easy chair , you would have been more likely to understand it . Pray , by all means , and the more , the better , but it is a piece of superstition to think there is anything in the posture in which a man puts himself for reading : and as to reading through the Bible twenty times without having found anything about the doctrine of election , the wonder is that you found anything at all : you must have galloped through it at such a rate that you were not likely to have any intelligible idea of the meaning of the Scriptures ."
And from my experience it is the other way around in great measure.donnA said:From my expereince the name calling has been armenians against calvinists, especially that they aren't saved.
But,,, isn't the op topic of this thread how onw becasme a calvinists, off topic a little guys.
Yes it does, Pinoy.pinoybaptist said:Cuts both ways.