The Sabbath by Christ in Isaiah

[DHK]

There is no record in Genesis that God gave the sabbath to man, and there is no record of men keeping the sabbath before Israel in the wilderness. Nehemiah 9:13-14 plainly states that the sabbath was first given to Israel.

You are correct here.

It was made known to Israel before they got to Sinai. It was in existence before the law was given at Sinai.

True, but not as a command.

After the law was given the children of Israel, that is the house of Judah and the house of Israel they were told it was a covenant sign that God was the creator and they were the only people of all the families of the earth that he did know as his people. The sabbath identified the the children of Israel as the people of God. It is the primary identifier of the Jews today that and their other religious customs including circumcision. They are sabbath keepers.

No argument.

When the nations split after Solomon died the house of Israel changed the seventh month feast to the eighth month and there is also evidence he changed the weekly sabbath to another day. I wonder witch day this would be?

The Sabbath has always remained the seventh day. On the seventh day, the last day God rested. This would never change, and has not to this day. But it is still for the Jews.

Compare

: Leviticus 23:2-4 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim holy convocations, these my feasts. Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work: it the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. These the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. (Along with the rest of chapter for monthly feast holy convocations, sabbath days) To: Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

There is no discrepancy here. The Jews had more than one sabbath. They had many feast days, many of which were called sabbaths. However they never departed from worshiping on the seventh day, the Sabbath Day.

This is the house of Israel that did away with their identifying sign, the sabbath, that God said would not be his people and he would not be their God. In Jer. 3 God says he gave her the house of Israel a bill of divorce.

He "divorced" them because of their rebellion to them, not because they had changed the Sabbath. They hadn't. The Sabbath Day always remained the same. No one has ever changed it.

He is not speaking of the house of Judah, the Jews, see Jer. 3:8-10 and Hosea 1:6-9 they did not do away with their sign. They were also great sinners yet they held on to their identifying sign.

The Sabbath was the sign of the covenant that they made with Jehovah.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

non sequitor. This has nothing to do with the sabbath day.

Just who did he foreknow? Romans 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people, [there] it shall be said unto them, [Ye are] the sons of the living God.

This still has nothing to do with the sabbath day.

What about their sign?

It looks forward to the Millennial Kingdom where Christ himself shall rule, and we also shall rule with him. It has nothing to do with the Sabbath. Do you need a sign when Christ is present with you?

 

[Chowmah]

No where will you find that man can change Gods Word. And yet just look at what you quote Hebrews 8-10 says. What you quoted can not be found in the Word. Its not there. Dont know what book your quoting from but its not the bible

This is truly ironical

DEUT. 4 [2] YE SHALL NOT ADD UNTO THE WORD which I command you, NEITHER SHALL YE DIMINISH OUGHT FROM IT, that ye may KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the Lord your God which I command you.

And thats exactly whats goin on

 

[DHK]

This is truly ironical

DEUT. 4 [2] YE SHALL NOT ADD UNTO THE WORD which I command you, NEITHER SHALL YE DIMINISH OUGHT FROM IT, that ye may KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS of the Lord your God which I command you.

And thats exactly whats goin on

Which command?

When thou buildest a new house, then thou shalt make a battlement for thy roof, that thou bring not blood upon thine house, if any man fall from thence. (Deuteronomy 22:8)

Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together. (Deuteronomy 22:11)

Thou shalt make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith thou coverest thyself. (Deuteronomy 22:12)

 

[Chowmah]

Which command?

ments

DEUT. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

 

[DHK]

ments

DEUT. 4 [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

At the commandment of the LORD the children of Israel journeyed, and at the commandment of the LORD they pitched: as long as the cloud abode upon the tabernacle they rested in their tents. (Numbers 9:18)

1. Where have you pitched your tent?
2. Which cloud are you following?
--There are plenty of clouds in the sky today where I am. Care to choose one?

 

[Dr. Walter]

You are correct here.

No, He is not correct here. This is a failure to properly intepret and understand Christ's rebuke to the Pharisees in Mark 2:27-28. Christ is clearly claiming to be the Creator who established the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-4 and therefore the proper intepreter of the intent behind the establishing of the Sabbath. Furthermore, Mark 2;27 does not say the Sabbath was "made for the Jew" as no Jews existed when the sabbath "was made." The text explicitly says the Sabbath was made for "the man" or mankind. The Sabbath was not "made" in Exodus 20 but rather the command was to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath and the Sabbath they were to "REMEMBER" was the one "made" by God in Genesis 2:1-4. Hence, any way you look at it, both Mark 2 and Exodus 20 have the Geneis 2:1-4 Sabbath in view. You have no Biblical grounds to separate Geneis 2:1-4 from either Exodus 20 or Mark 2 as there is no other reference point in Scripture for when the Sabbath "was made." The fact that Jesus claims to be the "Lord of the Sabbath" is a direct claim to be the Creator who established it in Genesis 2:1-4.

True, but not as a command.

Neither is this response accurate. In Exodus 16 they are rebuked for violating His Sabbath which is a senseless rebuke unless it was a command!

Ex. 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.


25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

The Sabbath law was in effect previous to the giving of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai in Exodus 20. God speaks of it as part of "my commandments and my laws" and only Genesis 2:1-4 provides any Biblical basis for such a law prior to Exodus 20.

The Sabbath has always remained the seventh day. On the seventh day, the last day God rested. This would never change, and has not to this day. But it is still for the Jews.

The sabbath command did not specify any particular day "of the week" nor does it specify such in Genesis 2 as your response suggests. Indeed, the Sabbath days in Leviticus 23 demand they were observed on what would be regarded as the first day "of the week" in a 28 or 29 day month. Indeed, the first, eighth, fifteenth and twenty second Sabbath days equal the 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th Sabbaths in the Jewish calendar Feast months.

More significantly the "Sabbath" law was not restricted to the "week" but was applied to years and the 50th year was a Sabbath year above all other sabbath years. Hence, there is no Biblical grounds to limit the Sabbath command to any specific day of the "week" nor to the "week" at all as it was applied to the "year" and most likely to the seventh month which also was the eighth month showing once again the equality between the seventh and eight period applications.

Furthermore, the Feasts of Leviticus 23-25 emphasize fulfillment under the NEW COVENANT under Christ rather than the Old Covenant under the nation of Israel. Here is sufficient evidence that the Sabbath law was more inclusive than any "day" of the week.

The cross has not fulfilled the Sabbath command and that is obvious from Hebrew 4:1-4. Old Testament saints believed in Christ (Heb. 4:2) and entered into the peace of the gospel (Acts 10:43) but yet continued to observe a sabbath day. Hence, gospel peace does not fulfill the Sabbath command. Indeed, nothing fulfills the Sabbath command except for a NEW CREATION wherein all creation is again at PEACE with God and that is why the writer of Hebrews refers to the final fulfillment as yet future (Heb. 4:11). We enter into the "rest" when we believe in Christ just as the Old Testament saints did, but we have not entered into "rest" for our bodies or the "rest" of a sinless creation. Hence, to argue that the cross, or faith in the gospel fulfills the Sabbath is wrong. Nothing fulfills the Sabbath until both man and creation is at "rest" with God WITHOUT SIN.

Last, there is a day set apart by God from all other days of the week and it is obvious from the very language used - "The Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10). The Greek behind this will not permit the idea of "the eschatalogical day of the Lord" as the Greek behind Rev. 1:10 is completely different than that idea. Hence, there is a day in the week separated from all other days and is claimed to be "the Lord's Day" in distinction from all other days.

This day is the resurrection day predicted by Psalm 118:24 - as interpreted by its context (Psa. 118:20-23) with its New Testament application (Acts 4:10-11; Rev. 1:10; Mark 16:9).

The Jewish nation will be restored in the Millennium and the Seventh Day Sabbath represents their Seventh Millennial reign whereas the first day of the week represents the eighth and eternal day of the Lord into which both elect Jews and Gentiles will enter into a SINLESS CREATION at rest with God.

 

[DHK]

The text explicitly says the Sabbath was made for "the man" or mankind. The Sabbath was not "made" in Exodus 20 but rather the command was to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath and the Sabbath they were to "REMEMBER" was the one "made" by God in Genesis 2:1-4. Hence, any way you look at it, both Mark 2 and Exodus 20 have the Geneis 2:1-4 Sabbath in view. You have no Biblical grounds to separate Geneis 2:1-4 from either Exodus 20 or Mark 2 as there is no other reference point in Scripture for when the Sabbath "was made." The fact that Jesus claims to be the "Lord of the Sabbath" is a direct claim to be the Creator who established it in Genesis 2:1-4.

The Pharisees had made a mockery of the Sabbath. They had made it burdensome, so much so that it had become impossible to keep. It no longer was a day of "rest."
The Sabbath was "made for man," that is for the benefit of man. He was countering the Pharisees. It was not made that man should be a slave to the sabbath but rather that the day should be for him, for his benefit, for his good, for him. All things are created FOR man, including the Sabbath. Monday through Sunday are created for man. But the Sabbath was being taken away from man, being stolen by the Pharisees and made a burden, making man a slave to the sabbath. That is the meaning of the verse.

When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? (Psalms 8:3-4)
Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. (Psalms 8:6-8)
--All things were made FOR man.
--That doesn't mean that the Sabbath is a command for man to keep.

Neither is this response accurate. In Exodus 16 they are rebuked for violating His Sabbath which is a senseless rebuke unless it was a command!

Ex. 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.


25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

The Sabbath law was in effect previous to the giving of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai in Exodus 20. God speaks of it as part of "my commandments and my laws" and only Genesis 2:1-4 provides any Biblical basis for such a law prior to Exodus 20.

--It is not in Genesis. Moses (through the Lord) gave it to Israel. He never gave it to any other nation. There is no Biblical basis in Genesis 2 for any man to KEEP the Sabbath. There is no command there to keep the Sabbath. That command is only given to Israel, and Israel alone.

The sabbath command did not specify any particular day "of the week" nor does it specify such in Genesis 2 as your response suggests. Indeed, the Sabbath days in Leviticus 23 demand they were observed on what would be regarded as the first day "of the week" in a 28 or 29 day month. Indeed, the first, eighth, fifteenth and twenty second Sabbath days equal the 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th Sabbaths in the Jewish calendar Feast months.

But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (Exodus 20:10)

Over and over again we are told that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We know that the first day of the week is Sunday. The seventh day is therefore Saturday. That is not a difficult calculation to make.

More significantly the "Sabbath" law was not restricted to the "week" but was applied to years and the 50th year was a Sabbath year above all other sabbath years. Hence, there is no Biblical grounds to limit the Sabbath command to any specific day of the "week" nor to the "week" at all as it was applied to the "year" and most likely to the seventh month which also was the eighth month showing once again the equality between the seventh and eight period applications.

I mentioned in my post that there was more than one sabbath, but many sabbaths. However the Sabbath Day was on the seventh day, which we know as Saturday.

Furthermore, the Feasts of Leviticus 23-25 emphasize fulfillment under the NEW COVENANT under Christ rather than the Old Covenant under the nation of Israel. Here is sufficient evidence that the Sabbath law was more inclusive than any "day" of the week.

The Sabbath was given only to Israel, as a sign of the covenant.

The cross has not fulfilled the Sabbath command and that is obvious from Hebrew 4:1-4. Old Testament saints believed in Christ (Heb. 4:2) and entered into the peace of the gospel (Acts 10:43) but yet continued to observe a sabbath day. Hence, gospel peace does not fulfill the Sabbath command. Indeed, nothing fulfills the Sabbath command except for a NEW CREATION wherein all creation is again at PEACE with God and that is why the writer of Hebrews refers to the final fulfillment as yet future (Heb. 4:11). We enter into the "rest" when we believe in Christ just as the Old Testament saints did, but we have not entered into "rest" for our bodies or the "rest" of a sinless creation. Hence, to argue that the cross, or faith in the gospel fulfills the Sabbath is wrong. Nothing fulfills the Sabbath until both man and creation is at "rest" with God WITHOUT SIN.

Hebrews 4 teaches us that Christ is our Sabbath. We enter into his rest.
The believer is no longer in bondage to the law.
There is no command anywhere for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath.

Last, there is a day set apart by God from all other days of the week and it is obvious from the very language used - "The Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10). The Greek behind this will not permit the idea of "the eschatalogical day of the Lord" as the Greek behind Rev. 1:10 is completely different than that idea. Hence, there is a day in the week separated from all other days and is claimed to be "the Lord's Day" in distinction from all other days.

The Lord's day is not the Sabbath. It is different. And your convictions concerning that day you may not impose on others. There is nothing dogmatic in Scripture about it. What we do know in Scripture is that the Sabbath is for the Jew and only for the Jew, and that there is no command for the NT believer to keep it.

This day is the resurrection day predicted by Psalm 118:24 - as interpreted by its context (Psa. 118:20-23) with its New Testament application (Acts 4:10-11; Rev. 1:10; Mark 16:9).

Your eisigesis doesn't work here.

The Jewish nation will be restored in the Millennium and the Seventh Day Sabbath represents their Seventh Millennial reign whereas the first day of the week represents the eighth and eternal day of the Lord into which both elect Jews and Gentiles will enter into a SINLESS CREATION at rest with God.

We don't live in the Millennial Kingdom. We live in this age of grace, the Church Age. And during this age there is no commandment to keep the Sabbath.

 

[Fred's Wife]

No, He is not correct here. This is a failure to properly intepret and understand Christ's rebuke to the Pharisees in Mark 2:27-28. Christ is clearly claiming to be the Creator who established the Sabbath in Genesis 2:1-4 and therefore the proper intepreter of the intent behind the establishing of the Sabbath. Furthermore, Mark 2;27 does not say the Sabbath was "made for the Jew" as no Jews existed when the sabbath "was made." The text explicitly says the Sabbath was made for "the man" or mankind. The Sabbath was not "made" in Exodus 20 but rather the command was to "REMEMBER" the Sabbath and the Sabbath they were to "REMEMBER" was the one "made" by God in Genesis 2:1-4. Hence, any way you look at it, both Mark 2 and Exodus 20 have the Geneis 2:1-4 Sabbath in view. You have no Biblical grounds to separate Geneis 2:1-4 from either Exodus 20 or Mark 2 as there is no other reference point in Scripture for when the Sabbath "was made." The fact that Jesus claims to be the "Lord of the Sabbath" is a direct claim to be the Creator who established it in Genesis 2:1-4.



Neither is this response accurate. In Exodus 16 they are rebuked for violating His Sabbath which is a senseless rebuke unless it was a command!

Ex. 16:4 Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.


25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

The Sabbath law was in effect previous to the giving of the ten commandments at Mount Sinai in Exodus 20. God speaks of it as part of "my commandments and my laws" and only Genesis 2:1-4 provides any Biblical basis for such a law prior to Exodus 20.




The sabbath command did not specify any particular day "of the week" nor does it specify such in Genesis 2 as your response suggests. Indeed, the Sabbath days in Leviticus 23 demand they were observed on what would be regarded as the first day "of the week" in a 28 or 29 day month. Indeed, the first, eighth, fifteenth and twenty second Sabbath days equal the 7th, 14th, 21st and 28th Sabbaths in the Jewish calendar Feast months.

More significantly the "Sabbath" law was not restricted to the "week" but was applied to years and the 50th year was a Sabbath year above all other sabbath years. Hence, there is no Biblical grounds to limit the Sabbath command to any specific day of the "week" nor to the "week" at all as it was applied to the "year" and most likely to the seventh month which also was the eighth month showing once again the equality between the seventh and eight period applications.

Furthermore, the Feasts of Leviticus 23-25 emphasize fulfillment under the NEW COVENANT under Christ rather than the Old Covenant under the nation of Israel. Here is sufficient evidence that the Sabbath law was more inclusive than any "day" of the week.

The cross has not fulfilled the Sabbath command and that is obvious from Hebrew 4:1-4. Old Testament saints believed in Christ (Heb. 4:2) and entered into the peace of the gospel (Acts 10:43) but yet continued to observe a sabbath day. Hence, gospel peace does not fulfill the Sabbath command. Indeed, nothing fulfills the Sabbath command except for a NEW CREATION wherein all creation is again at PEACE with God and that is why the writer of Hebrews refers to the final fulfillment as yet future (Heb. 4:11). We enter into the "rest" when we believe in Christ just as the Old Testament saints did, but we have not entered into "rest" for our bodies or the "rest" of a sinless creation. Hence, to argue that the cross, or faith in the gospel fulfills the Sabbath is wrong. Nothing fulfills the Sabbath until both man and creation is at "rest" with God WITHOUT SIN.

Last, there is a day set apart by God from all other days of the week and it is obvious from the very language used - "The Lord's day" (Rev. 1:10). The Greek behind this will not permit the idea of "the eschatalogical day of the Lord" as the Greek behind Rev. 1:10 is completely different than that idea. Hence, there is a day in the week separated from all other days and is claimed to be "the Lord's Day" in distinction from all other days.

This day is the resurrection day predicted by Psalm 118:24 - as interpreted by its context (Psa. 118:20-23) with its New Testament application (Acts 4:10-11; Rev. 1:10; Mark 16:9).

The Jewish nation will be restored in the Millennium and the Seventh Day Sabbath represents their Seventh Millennial reign whereas the first day of the week represents the eighth and eternal day of the Lord into which both elect Jews and Gentiles will enter into a SINLESS CREATION at rest with God.

Dr. Walter,

Are you quoting me, percho, or DHK? The post below is my entire original post. Percho quoted me, I think, but when DHK quoted percho, only part of my original post got quoted and now I am very confused. Is there a way to straighten these quotes out?

There is no record in Genesis that God gave the sabbath to man, and there is no record of men keeping the sabbath before Israel in the wilderness. Nehemiah 9:13-14 plainly states that the sabbath was first given to Israel.

Nehemiah 9:13 Thou camest down also upon mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven, and gavest them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commandments:

Nehemiah 9:14 And madest known unto them thy holy sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant:

The sabbath was a special sign between God and Israel:

Exodus 31:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exodus 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Exodus 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

The sabbath will be an eternal possession of Israel (Exodus 31:16). This sign will never be annulled or transferred to another people.

The Apostles only mentioned the sabbath three times in the epistles to the churches:

(1) The sabbath is a symbol of salvation rest in Christ (Hebrews 4). Jesus Christ is our Sabbath/rest.

(2) The born again believer is not bound to keep the sabbath (Colossians 2:9-17).

(3) The born again believer has liberty in the matter of holy days (Romans 14).

The teaching that the sabbath is binding upon the Christian, is contrary to what the Apostles taught.

 

[Dr. Walter]

--It is not in Genesis. Moses (through the Lord) gave it to Israel. He never gave it to any other nation. There is no Biblical basis in Genesis 2 for any man to KEEP the Sabbath. There is no command there to keep the Sabbath. That command is only given to Israel, and Israel alone.

You are simply not being objective with the evidence. You ignore the evidence I placed before you that proves the Sabbath command existed previous to the giving of the ten commandments and were part of God's commandments (Ex. 16). You ignore the fact that there is nothing previous to Exodus 20 upon which to base such a command except Genesis 2:1-4. You ignore the fact that Mark 2:27-28 refers to the Genesis 2 institution of the Sabbath. You ignore the fact that Exodus 20 is based upon the Genesis 2 institution and call Israel to "remember" and provides not evidence that the Sabbath was "made" in Exodus 20. You ignore the evidence that Christ refers to the Creational Sabbath and "the man" it was made for rather than "the Jew." You talk about eisgesis, your whole response is completely based upon eisgesis without any objective basis or exegetical response. Come on, let's be honest with the evidence rather providing a political response.

--But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (Exodus 20:10)

Over and over again we are told that the Sabbath is on the seventh day. We know that the first day of the week is Sunday. The seventh day is therefore Saturday. That is not a difficult calculation to make.

Your logic is not logical. We are told it is the "seventh day" but we are not told it was the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." Nowhere is the Sabbath command limited to the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." It can include it but it is not restricted to it and that is obvious by the fact that the SABBATH command is applied to 1st, 8th, 15th and 21st days of the month. It is applied to "years" especially the 50th year and it is applied to "months." The very fact that the sabbath command is applied to other periods of time than the seventh day and to periods of time longer than a "day" demonstrates it is not to be understood as a restricted to the seventh day "of the week." Therefore, the Sabbath is not restricted to Saturday but may be applied to Saturday.

--I mentioned in my post that there was more than one sabbath, but many sabbaths. However the Sabbath Day was on the seventh day, which we know as Saturday.

We only know that the JEWISH APPLICATION was Saturday during the gospel not that the Genesis or Exodus command was Saturday. However, the Biblical application we know exceeds any particular day "of the week" but may be applied to the "month" or "year." We know that the feasts emphasize the New Covenant and the emphasis is the 1st, 8th, 15th and 22nd, 50th Sabbath periods of time not the 7th Sabbatical system.

--The Sabbath was given only to Israel, as a sign of the covenant.

The Sabbath command was given to Israel with emphasis upon the seventh periods of time (day, month, year) but the Sabbath command exceeded the seventh period of times (day, month, year) and is inclusive of the 1st, 8th period of times (day, month, year). Mark 2:27-28 explicitly states it was given to "the man" not the Jew and the context has reference to Genesis 2 not Exodus 20 as even Exodus 20 has reference to Genesis 2 and the creational sabbath established by God.

--Hebrews 4 teaches us that Christ is our Sabbath. We enter into his rest.
The believer is no longer in bondage to the law.

Hebrews 4 teaches no such thing. Indeed it teaches the very opposite. Look at verse 2 and tell me that "the gospel" was not preached to them as well as unto us!!!! Tell me that Acts 10:43 denies rest from sins penalty and charge! The fact is that they "as well as us" entered into the same gospel rest but still observed a Sabbath observance. Paul's argument is that the gospel rest does not fulfill the Sabbath (v. 2) neither does the rest in Canaan, nor the rest from all enemies in palestine under David. His argument is that the work of Christ establishes a sabbath day observance that will not be fulfilled until Christ comes again and ushers us into a NEW creation where we are at rest in spirit, soul and body in a creation at rest with God without sin (vv. 11-14).

--There is no command anywhere for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath.

Hebrews 4:1-11 definitely teaches there "remains a sabbath day observance for the people of God" as the term in verse 9 is "sabbatimos" not "pauo" as in the previous verses (2-8). Psalm 118:24 definitely teaches the establishment of the first day Sabbath under the New Covenant. Mark 16:9 definitely teaches the establishment of the "first in a new series of Sabbaths" under the New Covenant. Revelation 1:10 definitely established a specific day set apart as owned by the Lord apart from other days of the week.

--The Lord's day is not the Sabbath. It is different. And your convictions concerning that day you may not impose on others. There is nothing dogmatic in Scripture about it. What we do know in Scripture is that the Sabbath is for the Jew and only for the Jew, and that there is no command for the NT believer to keep it.

You are simply avoiding the issue. The very words "the Lord's day" defines a day of the week set apart from other days as unto the Lord or else the very words "the Lord's day" are rediculous and meaningless. We do know how the term "kuriakos" was used and what it meant in the first century and we do know it is applied to observances of the Lord (1 Cor. 11:20). You are simply avoiding the evidence. You are not being object and your responses are purely eisgetical in totality.

--We don't live in the Millennial Kingdom. We live in this age of grace, the Church Age. And during this age there is no commandment to keep the Sabbath.

I did not apply the Old Covenant application of the seventh portion of time particular given to the Jews to post-cross Christians. I applied the 1st or 8th portion of time application of the Sabbath command to post-cross Christians. However, the Seventh portion of time application to the Jews is fulfilled in the Millennial age for the Jews but the jews as well as the Gentiles under the everlasting covenant enter the 8th thousand years or the 1st eternal day to the New Covenant fulfillment.

Moreover, the whole Old Covenant application of the sabbath command has been abolished. Under the New Covenant the sabbath command where the application is the first day of the of the week or the "lord's day" is observed by worship in spirit and in truth - This is the day which the Lord hath made and we will REJOICE and be GLAD IN IT.

 

[percho]

Dr. Walter,

Are you quoting me, percho, or DHK? The post below is my entire original post. Percho quoted me, I think, but when DHK quoted percho, only part of my original post got quoted and now I am very confused. Is there a way to straighten these quotes out?

If you think you are confused you should be in my head. Trust me there's room in there.

 

[DHK]

You are simply not being objective with the evidence. You ignore the evidence I placed before you that proves the Sabbath command existed previous to the giving of the ten commandments and were part of God's commandments (Ex. 16).

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: (Exodus 16:11,12a)
--The Lord was commanding Israel through Moses. What more proof do you need. Read the entire chapter. A command is a command. It involved: Moses, Jehovah, and Israel. The Sabbath has always involved Jehovah and Israel, and no one else. (I think you have been listening to Bob Ryan too much).

You ignore the fact that there is nothing previous to Exodus 20 upon which to base such a command except Genesis 2:1-4. You ignore the fact that Mark 2:27-28 refers to the Genesis 2 institution of the Sabbath. You ignore the fact that Exodus 20 is based upon the Genesis 2 institution and call Israel to "remember" and provides not evidence that the Sabbath was "made" in Exodus 20. You ignore the evidence that Christ refers to the Creational Sabbath and "the man" it was made for rather than "the Jew." You talk about eisgesis, your whole response is completely based upon eisgesis without any objective basis or exegetical response. Come on, let's be honest with the evidence rather providing a political response.

That entire paragraph above gives no evidence why a believer should keep the Sabbath--none. In Genesis 2 there is no command to keep the sabbath; none.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (Genesis 2:3)
--God rested; God blessed it; God sanctified it. So what. There is no command to keep it. Who is doing the eisigesis?
--You have not provided one verse in all the Bible that gives a command for the Gentile believer to keep the Sabbath, have you?

Your logic is not logical. We are told it is the "seventh day" but we are not told it was the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." Nowhere is the Sabbath command limited to the seventh day "OF THE WEEK." It can include it but it is not restricted to it and that is obvious by the fact that the SABBATH command is applied to 1st, 8th, 15th and 21st days of the month. It is applied to "years" especially the 50th year and it is applied to "months." The very fact that the sabbath command is applied to other periods of time than the seventh day and to periods of time longer than a "day" demonstrates it is not to be understood as a restricted to the seventh day "of the week." Therefore, the Sabbath is not restricted to Saturday but may be applied to Saturday.

Who is not being logical? Please read Genesis chapter one again. Pay close attention to the creation account. Note that I believe in a literal 7-24 hour day creation. I don't spiritualize the account. There are 7 days in a week. On the seventh day God rested. (This is not rocket science.) After creating on day one, day two, day three, day four, day five, day six, then on day seven of that week God rested. Is it that difficult to understand?
The reason it isn't Saturday? We didn't have one of our visitors from BB to teach Moses the KJV. He missed out on the English language. He spoke a derivative of the Hebrew language, but it was the seventh day nevertheless. It is restricted to Saturday (as we know because we speak the English language) because Saturday is the seventh day. I am speaking specifically of the Sabbath Day, the one mentioned in the Ten Commandments. Therefore no need to bring in red herrings about the other sabbaths mentioned in the Bible. I am fully aware of them also.

We only know that the JEWISH APPLICATION was Saturday during the gospel not that the Genesis or Exodus command was Saturday. However, the Biblical application we know exceeds any particular day "of the week" but may be applied to the "month" or "year." We know that the feasts emphasize the New Covenant and the emphasis is the 1st, 8th, 15th and 22nd, 50th Sabbath periods of time not the 7th Sabbatical system.

Please keep it simple. "Thou shalt keep holy the Sabbath Day," one of the Ten Commandments. Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to keep this command. It is given to the Jews and to their generations forever. It falls on a Saturday, the seventh day of the week. It is as simple as that.

The Sabbath command was given to Israel with emphasis upon the seventh periods of time (day, month, year) but the Sabbath command exceeded the seventh period of times (day, month, year) and is inclusive of the 1st, 8th period of times (day, month, year). Mark 2:27-28 explicitly states it was given to "the man" not the Jew and the context has reference to Genesis 2 not Exodus 20 as even Exodus 20 has reference to Genesis 2 and the creational sabbath established by God.

I have already explained this Scripture to you but you do not listen.

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28)
The context:
And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? (Mark 2:24)
--He is going back to that which is written to the Jews. He is speaking to the Pharisees and making application to the Jews, not to all men. That is the context.

The Sabbath was made for man; So was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and every other day of the week. The teaching was that the day was not to be a burden for man. It was made for man to enjoy. The day was made for man, not man to be a slave to the day, as the Pharisees had done.
It was the seventh day, which is our Saturday.

Hebrews 4 teaches no such thing. Indeed it teaches the very opposite. Look at verse 2 and tell me that "the gospel" was not preached to them as well as unto us!!!! Tell me that Acts 10:43 denies rest from sins penalty and charge! The fact is that they "as well as us" entered into the same gospel rest but still observed a Sabbath observance. Paul's argument is that the gospel rest does not fulfill the Sabbath (v. 2) neither does the rest in Canaan, nor the rest from all enemies in palestine under David. His argument is that the work of Christ establishes a sabbath day observance that will not be fulfilled until Christ comes again and ushers us into a NEW creation where we are at rest in spirit, soul and body in a creation at rest with God without sin (vv. 11-14).

I believe you are confused.
1. We are to enter into His rest. That rest is Christ. That same one who invited us to come and he would carry our burdens (Mat.11:28:-30)
2. This in no way contradicts the gospel. Where did you pull that card from?
3. No NT Christian is commanded to keep the Sabbath Day. The only people that do, that I know of are a cult. In fact the Bible says:

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (Colossians 2:8)
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17)
--There were false teachers in Colosse. Paul corrects their teaching telling them that the Sabbath was only a shadow of the real thing--that real Sabbath being Christ. Our Sabbath, or Rest is Christ. We have already entered into it.

Hebrews 4:1-11 definitely teaches there "remains a sabbath day observance for the people of God" as the term in verse 9 is "sabbatimos" not "pauo" as in the previous verses (2-8). Psalm 118:24 definitely teaches the establishment of the first day Sabbath under the New Covenant. Mark 16:9 definitely teaches the establishment of the "first in a new series of Sabbaths" under the New Covenant. Revelation 1:10 definitely established a specific day set apart as owned by the Lord apart from other days of the week.

Pure unverified opinion and speculation. I have already corrected you on Hebrews chapter four. The other references have nothing to do with the Sabbath.

You are simply avoiding the issue. The very words "the Lord's day" defines a day of the week set apart from other days as unto the Lord or else the very words "the Lord's day" are rediculous and meaningless. We do know how the term "kuriakos" was used and what it meant in the first century and we do know it is applied to observances of the Lord (1 Cor. 11:20). You are simply avoiding the evidence. You are not being object and your responses are purely eisgetical in totality.

The "Lord's Day" was equated with the first day of the week, and therefore irrelevant to the keeping of the Sabbath.

 

[percho]

DHK

The sins of Jeroboam and all who followed him in the house of Israel.

1 Kings 12:32,33 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that [is] in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made. So he offered upon the altar which he had made in Bethel the fifteenth day of the eighth month, [even] in the month which he had devised of his own heart; and ordained a feast unto the children of Israel: and he offered upon the altar, and burnt incense.

That underlined and in bold was the replacement for this feast of the LORD.
Lev.23:34,35 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month [shall be] the feast of tabernacles [for] seven days unto the LORD. On the first day [shall be] an holy convocationAn annual sabbath) ye shall do no servile work [therein].

I also said it appears where in Lev. 23 God calls the weekly sabbath and the feasts (annual sabbaths) his feast days and we know for sure Jeroboam changed one of them to the eighth month by the wording in Hosea 2 Where God refers to their feast days and their sabbath implies they may have changed the others also.

That was the house of Israel that did that and they became scattered among the Gentiles not knowing who they were and neither did the Gentiles know who they were after time. They did away with their identifying sign the sabbath.

The house of Judah, the Jews kept the sabbath and the feast days and everywhere they went in the world, they and the people knew they were Jews of the house of Judah because they practiced there customs including the sabbath.

These two peoples have been two distinct nations since the death of Solomon thus the two sticks in Ezekiel and will be til the return of Jesus, the lion of the tribe of Judah who came unto his own the house of Judah, the Jews and his own, the Jews received him not. And other sheep (The lost sheep of the house of Israel) I have, which are not of this foldThe house of Judah) them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one flock, [and] one shepherd. Compare to Ezekiel 37:21-24

God said in Ezekiel 34 for his name sake he was going to gather from among the Gentiles a people. In Jeremiah 3 the same chapter where he speaks of giving the house of Israel a bill of divorce God says he will take one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: (The church) Compare this to Acts 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

Who did he foreknow?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

GE:

Enough to write VOLUMES on!

So I'll stick to this (above) from Chowmah...

No where will you find that man can change Gods Word. And yet just look at what you quote Hebrews 8-10 says. What you quoted can not be found in the Word. Its not there. Dont know what book your quoting from but its not the bible

Here's "Hebrews verses 8-10 : "BECAUSE if JESUS had given them rest and God after these things (through Jesus) won't ever speak Salvation again, a keeping of the Sabbath Day remains valid for the People of God _HE HAVING ENTERED INTO HIS OWN REST AS GOD IN HIS OWN!" "

Alright, I should have written
"...won't ever speak Salvation again.."
more elaborately,
"...won't ever speak of another _day_ or era or dispensation or opportunity, of Salvation again.."
...for which 'rendering' / 'interpretation' / 'paraphrasing' I enjoy the support of just about the full scope of Protestant AND Roman Catholic scholarship in exegetics.

And therefore this part of my 'translation' is accurate as can come... and which, Chowmah, you, are not able to improve on with one word the trust and crux of this Scripture, contrary.

Now as for the rest of "what (I) quoted", that is "found in the Word" in Hebrews 4:8-10 …

...more LITERAL you won't get;
...more precise you won't improve on it;
...more TRUE to spirit and truth of the passage, you, or no one else, is able to present :
BECAUSE :
"what (I) quoted", WAS, 'quoted' : from : the Text - the Greek words - of the passage :
LITERALLY, WORD FOR WORD THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD.

P.S.
...not as many as one variant of, exists... I think.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I therefore hope we could stay with the subject of this thread as per (more or less), the op, please.

Dr Walter, for example, please, What do you say about Isaiah speaking of the Son of Man who kept the Sabbath?

 

[Dr. Walter]

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: (Exodus 16:11,12a)
--The Lord was commanding Israel through Moses. What more proof do you need.

You are playing the role of a politician instead of a Biblical exegete! Moses wrote Genesis 2 equally as Exodus 16 and Exodus 20. Both Exodus 16 and Exodus 20 have as their antecedent Genesis 2 - note the word "remember" and the direct reference to creation! Mark 2 has for its antecedent Genesis 2 not Exodus 16 or Exodus 20 as these texts simply "REMEMBER" Genesis 2 and it is was in Genesis 2 that the Sabbath "was made." Mark 2:28 has reference to Christ as Creator in regard to when the Sabbath "was made" not the law giver in Exodus 16 or 20. Exodus 16 does not have Exodus 20 as its precedence for the Sabbath but has Genesis 2 for its precedence. Nothing can be clearer and more easier to see.

In Genesis 2 there is no command to keep the sabbath; none.

Nothing is stronger than God's own example as a basis for Sabbath observation. If God observed it are you superior to God???????? Mark 2 is based upon God's own example in Genesis 2 and Christ draws from that example God's intent for resting and it was to institute it "for man" not merely for God Himself! Exodus 20 is based upon God's own example in Genesis 2 and the word "remember" proves it! If God rested, God blessed it; and God sanctified it; are you saying He did it only FOR HIMSELF but Jesus says he did it "for man." Nothing makes it more incumbant upon man than God's own example. It is God's own example that is the basis for Exodus 20 and Mark 2:27-28.

Who is not being logical? Please read Genesis chapter one again. Pay close attention to the creation account. Note that I believe in a literal 7-24 hour day creation. I don't spiritualize the account. There are 7 days in a week. On the seventh day God rested. (This is not rocket science.) After creating on day one, day two, day three, day four, day five, day six, then on day seven of that week God rested.

Show me where THE BIBLE says "of the week"???? You cannot do it! What is the import of that problem? Very simple, the Sabbath law is the basis for all other SABBATH APPLICATIONS in Scripture as they are called "SABBATHS" and thus derived from that Law. Any interpretation of that law which restricts it so much that it cannot be applicable to what God applies it to is wrong! The proper interpretation must be sufficiently inclusive to be applied to all that God applies it to in scripture. Your interpretation along with the SDA interpretation forbid such an inclusive interpretation and therefore must be wrong as God's application cannot be wrong!!! The Sabbath principle exceeds any restriction to a particular limitation ALTHOUGH IT INCLUDES IT!

The proper interpretation is one in seven! In regard to the original institution of the Sabbath the use of the Hebrew term "yom" is used in two senses. It is used for a 24 hour period as well as a period greater than 24 hours (see Genesis 2:4).

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. {created…: Heb. created to make}
4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

In the application of the Sabbath law or principle God applies it to greater periods of time than a 24 hour period (month, year) as well as to other days in the month. Hence, you cannot restrict it to something less than what God Himself applies it to without condemning God's own application of it as wrong!

In the Levitical feasts which typify the NEW COVENANT the Sabbath law is applied to the FIRST and EIGHTH days of the month and significantly the seven month is equally the FIRST month (religious/civil calanders) as well showing the Sabbath law incoporates the first as well as the seventh as equal applications. You position and interpretation is not only too simplex for the Biblical data and evidence but is wrong as it condemns God's own application of that law which exceeds the restrictions you and the SDA place on it.

I have already explained this Scripture to you but you do not listen.

Your restrictive explanation condemns God's own application of that law! Your explanation is not only to simplex but too restrictive and incapable of satisfying the Biblical data and evidence. The crux of your interpretation is exactly that of the SDA. Any explanation that falls short of dealing with the entire data is wrong.

He is speaking to the Pharisees and making application to the Jews, not to all men. That is the context.

The Sabbath was made for man; So was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and every other day of the week.

Certainly he was correcting the incorrect understanding and application of the Sabbath law by the Pharisees. But your understanding and application is equally as wrong! It is absurd to say that "the sabbath was made for man" is nothing different than saying God made Monday, tuesday, etc., for man too! That kind of response is rediculous and equally as erroneous as the Phariseeical misapplication and misunderstanding of the Sabbath.

He does not say the "command" was made for man but "the sabbath was made for man" but you interpret him as meaning the former instead of the latter. His reference is Genesis 2 not Exodus as he is asserting Himself as the "Lord" or Creator of the Sabbath in Gensis 2 and thus the proper interpreter of the Sabbath. Exodus 20 records no Sabbath being "made" but only the command to "remember" when the Sabbath was made by God in Genesis 2. Exodus 20 and Exodus 16 have Gensis 2 as their antecedent just as Mark 2;27-28 have Genesis 2 as its basis. You deny this and are in as much error as the Pharisees.

I

believe you are confused.
1. We are to enter into His rest. That rest is Christ. That same one who invited us to come and he would carry our burdens (Mat.11:28:-30)
2. This in no way contradicts the gospel. Where did you pull that card from?
3. No NT Christian is commanded to keep the Sabbath Day. The only people that do, that I know of are a cult. In fact the Bible says:

Do you understand the term "exegesis"???? Hebrew 4:1-11 is a very methodical and developed argument by Paul to prove the intent behind the creational Sabbath is not fulfilled by spiritual rest entered into by gospel conversion. He is specifically pointing to the days of Moses (Heb. 3) and why they did not enter into that gospel rest (Heb. 2:1-4) because the gospel they heard, the same gospel preached to us, was not mixed with faith IN THEM that heard it! However, it was mixed with faith in Moses, in Joshua, in Caleb, and in all others who were true believers among them. They did enter into that spiritual rest of the gospel (Acts 10:43; 26:22-23) and yet they continued to observe a Sabbath day in the week in spite of entering into that spiritual rest! Why? Because the gospel rest does not completely fulfill the intent behind the creational rest. Neither does entering into Canaan under Joshua fulfill the intent behind the creational Sabbath rest as those who entered Canaan continued to observe a Sabbath day observance in addition to entering into the gospel rest of faith in the coming Christ (Acts 10:43). Neither was the Sabbath rest fulfilled under David who brought peace from all the surrounding enemies and David entered the gospel rest of faith in Christ (Acts 2) but still continued to observe a Sabbath day!

We also, enter into spiritual rest through the gospel but there still remains a "sabbath day observance for the people of God" today (Heb. 4:9) because the intent of the creational Sabbath has yet to be realized! However, the work of Christ, His redemptive work, that provides us present SPIRITUAL REST in the gospel is the basis that will eventually obtain that intent which is yet future (v. 11) when we enter into a NEW CREATION that is without sin and thus at perfect rest with God. That is what the creational Sabbath commemorates - a sinless creation at rest with God. That is what the work of Jesus Christ (Heb. 4:10) guarantees in the future and therefore the people of God continue to observe a Sabbath day observance until that intent is fulfilled in the New Creation obtained by the redemptive work and person of Jesus Christ - it is future, it is a rest yet to be entered. Joshua was a type of Christ and palestine was a type of that rest. David was a type of Christ and complete domination of all enemies was a type of that rest. Christ has finished the work but that rest has yet to be entered and cannot be entered until the last enemy is conquerored which is death and death still has its grips upon the soul and body of believers. Only the human spirit has entered into that rest - only the regenerated inward man is free from sin at rest with God and thus IN UNION with God. Thus the creation Sabbath is yet unfulfilled. However, we have a BETTER SABBATH because it commemorates a GREATER work than creation - the work of redemption (Heb. 4:10) which ushers in a NEW CREATION that will permenantly remain without sin. This better Sabbath day observance is the "Lord's day."

The "Lord's day" - the very words demand that one day of the week is claimed by the Lord above others!!!! To deny this is to enter into the absurd and into the fiction of eisgesis.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I beg to differ "the intent of the creational Sabbath has yet to be realized".

And I also object to the understanding that the Sabbath’s intent or purpose and historical development are being based on human endeavour and eventuality.

The Sabbath squarely rests on God’s ESCHATOLOGICAL availing in and through Jesus Christ, from creation until his Resurrection; as well as on the SOTERIOLOGICAL “intent of the creational Sabbath (that) has yet to be realized” in the resurrection of the saints in the last day and the new earth thereafter.

So, for sure, “… the work of Christ, His redemptive work … provides us present SPIRITUAL REST in the gospel (and) is the basis that will eventually obtain that intent which is yet future (v. 11) when we enter into a NEW CREATION that is without sin and thus at perfect rest with God. That is what the creational Sabbath commemorates - a sinless creation at rest with God…" and the Sabbath through the resurrection of Christ from the dead is looking forward to, Colossians 2:17,19.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

................................
The "Lord's day" - the very words demand that one day of the week is claimed by the Lord above others!!!! To deny this is to enter into the absurd and into the fiction of eisgesis.

GE:

Again, not so much (if at all) from the human point of view or devotion of "one day of the week" to God,

but,
first, Of the LORD GOD "making", "that one day of the week" "_MY_ Holy Day" through "ACT"="LAW"="WORK" of _HIS_;
and,
second, Of the Lord God "making", "THAT, ONE, day of the week" - "THE SEVENTH DAY" "GOD thus concerning spake", "My _HOLY-DAY_" through "ACT"="LAW"="WORK" of _HIS_...

ABOVE ALL BY CHRIST'S RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD ON IT.

"THEREFORE the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath Day" .... the 'sabbath day' spoken of and referred to and "remembered" IN THESE VERY WORDS OF JESUS, "The SEVENTH Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD"!

But ... "he shall think to change Times and Law of God ..." through "the fiction of eisgesis."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

-......................
We don't live in the Millennial Kingdom. We live in this age of grace, the Church Age. And during this age there is no commandment to keep the Sabbath.

GE:

"The Thousand Years the First Resurrection" ; these are the words, the only words in the entire Bible, that define "the Millennial Kingdom" --- "the Millennial Kingdom" we, "in this age of grace, the Church Age", to quote YOU : "live".

You gave the very good, very true and very beautiful explanation of it, DHK, which is in full agreement with the Scriptures and in direct contradiction and conflict with YOURSELF!

Conclusion :
During this age there IS a commandment to keep the Sabbath, many times repeated in many ways in the New Testament.

Here is one : “Because Jesus had given them rest there THEREFORE REMAINS OBLIGATORY FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD A KEEPING OF THE SABBATH DAY.”

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK insists there MUST be in so many words a commandment that the Sabbath must be kept before a Christian is obliged to keep it.

Yes, you are right. There must.

Only issue is, what such a commandment must look like.

I - a believer the Sabbath should be kept - say, Because we are Christians, the commandment should NOT be given in legal, commanding terms or fashion, but by grace through faith no less than our righteousness should be by grace through faith.

DHK, a believer the Sabbath should NOT be kept - say, because we are Christians, the commandment MUST be given in legal, commanding terms and manner, and denies it is given in the grace through faith principle we find in the New Testament.

To me that is an inexplicable anomaly.

 

[DHK]

DHK insists there MUST be in so many words a commandment that the Sabbath must be kept before a Christian is obliged to keep it.

Yes, you are right. There must.

Only issue is, what such a commandment must look like.

I - a believer the Sabbath should be kept - say, Because we are Christians, the commandment should NOT be given in legal, commanding terms or fashion, but by grace through faith no less than our righteousness should be by grace through faith.

DHK, a believer the Sabbath should NOT be kept - say, because we are Christians, the commandment MUST be given in legal, commanding terms and manner, and denies it is given in the grace through faith principle we find in the New Testament.

To me that is an inexplicable anomaly.

Not in the light of Exodus 31. God is immutable. He doesn't change.
He gave the Sabbath as a sign of his covenant between him and the nation of Israel and their generations forever. Unless there is a direct command, a statement somewhere that revokes that command, then the command is given only to the nation of Israel and not to the NT Christian. All of Scripture is in harmony with each other. There are no contradictions. Your position, along with Dr. Walters, makes the Bible contradict itself. The Sabbath was given to the nation of Israel, and only the nation of Israel. That has never been revoked.