The Sabbath- Do we still need to keep it?

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The Lord Jesus didn't keep the "Sabbath." Joh 5:17,18 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.


GE:

Indeed! Like the man who unwittingly said it is better one man dies for the people, actually prophesied a truth, these poor ignorant didn't know just how truly Jesus 'broke the Sabbath' -- they knew!
For God's REST is God's REVIVAL so to speak; it is His exercising the exceeding greatness of His power ... WHEN HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD". "GOD IN HIS OWN" is God Triumphant, God who RESTS IN CHRIST JESUS.

ONLY this is what gave meaning and reason for the People of God's keeping of their Sabbath Days. And this is once for all proven true, in the fact that Paul admonishes the Church of Jesus Christ: "Do not you let yourselves be judged or denounced by anyone of the world for your regarding your feast of Sabbaths' feasting ..." the fact namely, that Christ rose from the dead: verse 12.

 

[DHK]

DHK, you truly act as a fighter in a corner. All over you apprear to be on the retreat. I believe simply because you are talking against your own better knowing, consciously.

If Christ says He is the LORD of the Sabbath Day, to a Christian that is Christ's Command to him to regard the Lord's Day.

That is an illogical statement to say in the first place.
Christ says that he is the Lord of the universe. Therefore, to a Christian (by your logic) that is a command to.......(worship regard the universe as worship perhaps??) What kind of logic is this. Christ is Lord. He is Lord over all. Because He is Lord, that logically require us to worship on or over those things that he is Lord of? I certanly hope not. I worship Christ, not the day that he created. I feel sad for those that must worship a day rather than the one who created the day.

If God says that "if Jesus had given them rest" and that "therefore the Sabbath remains for the People of God", then that's a Command, the LORD "God thus concerning the Seventh Day spake".

"The Sabbath remains for the people of God." How is that a command. It is a declarative statement not an imperative statement. What is the reference, and what is the context. Are you taking Scripture out of context?

If the Scriptures say that the Sabbath remains for the People of God "because He entered into His own Rest AS GOD IN HIS OWN", we, believers in Jesus, understand the greatest of all commands from the Saviour, that God has entered upon His Sabbath rest at last "through the Son ... in these last days". "GOD IN HIS OWN": IS, "God, in the exceeding greatness of His power exercising ..." (Eph1), "refreshing Himself" (Ex31:17). That is a Commandment to Israel of God, to keep the Seventh Day Sabbath

Does God, the Creator of the universe, need rest?
How did God enter into "His own rest?"
I think you have something confused and are taking some Scripture out of context.

Etcetera, by the score, in and from the New Testament.

Etc.? what? Show me one Scriptural command that commands Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath. You have come nowhere close to that. You don't give references to the Scripture you quote. And you run it altogether taking it out of context. I see no command to keep the Sabbath. Do you? I hardly think so.

 

[DHK]

That is what you say --.

No, that is what the Bible says. You certainly like to ignore the teaching of Exodus 31 don't you?

 

[DHK]

All of the above is false. How can you say you have to do it over and over and over before you are guilty. Yikes!!!!

If my post is wrong then show how it is wrong. Don't just complain about it. Have you ever lied. I am sure that you have. The Bible says you have (Rom.3:4), and I would rather take the Bible's word over your yours. Shall I label you a liar (as the liars described in Rev.21:8}, just because you tell the occasional lie? Is that the group you belong in--where their end shall have the place in the lake of fire? Is that what you believe? That is what you are telling me. For as much as you have your feet planted on this earth you have lied. The Bible tells me that, and I trust in the Bible. You aren't perfect.
I have news for you Bob. Lying is just as evil as adultery. Lying sends a person to Hell, unconfessed or not. One unconfessed lie will send you to hell, just like adultery (according to your theology) because both sins in God's sight are just as evil.

Again, you speak as a man who needs help. IMO

No, I don't need help because I recognize the holiness of God and his hatred of sin. And you don't. You cannot see a Holy and Righteous God that hates sin, of all kinds, not just "mortal sins." God hates all sins, not just the ones you hate.

I know and you believe if you die committing adultery you will be singing with the angels. foolish IMO

And if you die with an unconfessed lie on your heart, will you be doing the same?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Bob you are being redundant to say the least. There is no way that "HIS" commandments include the "Ten Commandments." You are twisting Scripture to make it say what you want it to mean. The commandments that he refers to as "His" are the ones that he has been teaching "His" disciples. Keep things in context and you will have a better understanding of Biblical doctrine rather than SDA doctrine. He was teaching his disciples. It was His commandments that they had to keep in order to be His disciple. Keeping the law would not make them a disciiple of Christ--maybe a legalistic Pharisee, but not a disciple of Christ.

GE:
O no, DHK, you are doing exactly what you accuse BR of doing. THE GOD WHO, gave the TC and the Sabbath Commandment, IS, and WAS, Christ Jesus, Yahweh, "IAMTHELORDYOURGOD" - it is ONE NAME; it is One God. Jesus 'includes' the TC, if you will. Jesus NEVER contradicts any 'command' of the OT, but gives it first, full and fulfilled meaning and content. If ever there was a time for the keeping of ALL God's commands and commandments, it is "Today, if ye hear MY VOICE (Jesus Christ), do not harden your hearts. It's appeal is to you, DHK, now.

 

[DHK]

GE:
O no, DHK, you are doing exactly what you accuse BR of doing. THE GOD WHO, gave the TC and the Sabbath Commandment, IS, and WAS, Christ Jesus, Yahweh, "IAMTHELORDYOURGOD" - it is ONE NAME; it is One God. Jesus 'includes' the TC, if you will. Jesus NEVER contradicts any 'command' of the OT, but gives it first, full and fulfilled meaning and content. If ever there was a time for the keeping of ALL God's commands and commandments, it is "Today, if ye hear MY VOICE (Jesus Christ), do not harden your hearts. It's appeal is to you, DHK, now.

Answer the question GE.
Give me one command in all the NT where believers ae expected to keep the Sabbath Day.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK:
""The Sabbath remains for the people of God." How is that a command. It is a declarative statement not an imperative statement. What is the reference, and what is the context. "

GE:
"The Sabbath remains for the people of God" is a commandment in so many words: It is an imperative by reason of the context: "Jesus having given them rest" (8), and "He having entered into His Own Rest as God IN HIS OWN" (10): "THEREFORE (ara) there remains VALID and OBLIGATORY for the People of God a (or 'their') keeping of the Sabbath Day". (9)

The context takes for granted FIRST, the very existing practice among the People of God of the keepinng of the Sabbath, and BASIS it upon the NEW PREMISE of Jesus Christ being its reason d'etre from start to end.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Here is another, nay, ther only: "Therefore the Son of Man (Jesus Christ) IS LORD OF THE SABBATH". He being THE AUTHORITY of the Sabbath, makes a keeping of the Sabbath Day the obligation of every 'anthrohpon dia' whom or for whose sake, it was "made/instituted/commanded/created". Its obligation, the duty of it, being the prologema of its 'creation/command/institution/making' or whatever -of its OBLIGATION!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But I'll give you the NEW COVENANT 'Command' for the keeping of the Sabbath Day by the People of God: It is this which you'll find in Colossians the second chapter - that is written upon the grounds of the WORK of Christ Jesus described there in verses 12 on, which states in that Christ "TRIUMPHED IN IT" -- in His resurrection from the dead --- it says: "THEREFORE THEN (oun) DO not you LET yourselves be condemned with regard to (your) feasting ('eating and drinking') of Sabbaths' feast"! There is no way it can be denied the positive Commandment of the Sabbaths' Feasting (or 'keeping') is presupposed in this here application of it.
DHK, you know you know better; don't pretend; it won't do as excuse.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

But I'll return your question or challenge, with another:

You show me one word or one text or one insinuation from the WORD to the effect of all the above (posts of mine) in which the same could in any way however remote or direct be applied to Sunday in the worhip of the Christian Church!

 

[DHK]

DHK:
""The Sabbath remains for the people of God." How is that a command. It is a declarative statement not an imperative statement. What is the reference, and what is the context. "

I asked you to give me the reference. You did not. I searched for it and found it. Now I see why you wanted this passage hidden from me. You are taking the entire passage out of its context. Nothing here means what you pretend it means.

GE:
"The Sabbath remains for the people of God" is a commandment in so many words: It is an imperative by reason of the context: "Jesus having given them rest" (8), and "He having entered into His Own Rest as God IN HIS OWN" (10): "THEREFORE (ara) there remains VALID and OBLIGATORY for the People of God a (or 'their') keeping of the Sabbath Day". (9)[/quote]
The Sabbath spoken of in Hebrews 4:9 is Heaven. It is not the Sabbath that is referred to in the Ten Commandments. To say so is ridiculous. I see why you wouldn't give me the reference.

Hebrews 4:9-11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us
11 labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
--We enter into heaven (God's eternal rest) through believe as it says in verse 11. There remains a lator to enter in God's rest. Beleivers still labor on this earth. We will until that time when we receive our glorified bodies and enter into that final rest with Jesus. This is not talking about the Sabbath Day. Don't be deceived.

The word used in verse 9 translated "rest"

[SIZE=+1]4520. sabbatismos[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Search for G4520 in KJVSL[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]sabbatismoV[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]rom a derivative of 4521; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven):--rest.

This is the only place in the Bible where this word is found. Though related to Sabbath, it is not that word. The context is heaven, not the Sabbath. To use this passage as a proof text for the Sabbath Day is simply taking the Scripture out of context. There is no command here to keep the Sabbath Day.

The context takes for granted FIRST, the very existing practice among the People of God of the keepinng of the Sabbath, and BASIS it upon the NEW PREMISE of Jesus Christ being its reason d'etre from start to end.

No it does not. It is not speaking of the Sabbath at all. It is speaking of a rest in heaven, our permanent rest in heaven. Jesus is our Sabbath, our rest. Come unto me all ye that labour, And I will give you rest.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

According to the WHOLE of the Bible (not only the TC or the NT or any part of it), "God upon the Seventh Day" : One, Rested; Two, Finished; Three, Sanctified; Four, Blessed; Five, Revived. Taken together, this is explained in and by the words from Hebrews (which so offended Luther and it seems DHK) "GOD IN HIS OWN". Because first, "Jesus had given them rest", and next, "He has entered into His own rest as God", God Rested, Finished, Sanctified, Blessed, Revived. In a word, for the first time God was "IN HIS OWN". For the first time, God, RESTED, rested in that He "exercised the exceeding greatness of His power". "Of the Seventh Day God thus concerning spake."

God cannot be idle; His rest is no nothing-doing. It is His utmost doing : that of having raised Christ from the dead.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

DHK, quoting GE:
Quote:
The context takes for granted FIRST, the very existing practice among the People of God of the keepinng of the Sabbath, and BASIS it upon the NEW PREMISE of Jesus Christ being its reason d'etre from start to end.
No it does not. It is not speaking of the Sabbath at all. It is speaking of a rest in heaven, our permanent rest in heaven. Jesus is our Sabbath, our rest. Come unto me all ye that labour, And I will give you rest.

GE:

"Sabbatismos" it says. But DHK says, "It is speaking of a rest in heaven" (ouranos?)

Yes, it is the only occurrence in the Bible. But the word and its use is also found in papyri, and the application there is to some certain observance of the seventh day -- the day being literal and that of the seventh day of the week -- NO disagreement from any scholars as to this fact. Opposition only starts with theologians, who obviously must be illeterate, to be able to confuse 'ouranos' for ' sabbatismos'.

The writer of Hebrews knew well what the word for 'rest' was: kata/anapausis. It knew well the word for 'heaven' -- 'ouranos'. Just fair to assume he also knew what his word 'sabbatismos' actually meant? Or was he completely stupid|?

 

[grahame]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:"(John 19:30)

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."(Heb 4:9-10)

Those who see the significance of these words are blessed indeed. For those who are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ have entered into His rest.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:"(John 19:30)

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."(Heb 4:9-10)

Those who see the significance of these words are blessed indeed. For those who are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ have entered into His rest.

Then the author goes on, as well as draws from, this truth uttered twice concerning Jesus Christ in the very context, saying, "Therefore there remains valid and obligatory (apoleipetai) a keeping of the Sabbath Day for the People of God". This was God being proved faithfull where He in the OT promised and prophesied, "the Sabbath shall be a sign that I-Am-the-LORD-Your-God and You-My-People ..." (Ez20, Ex31)

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

grahame:
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:"(John 19:30)"


GE:
All the bitterness of His suffering Christ had fulfilled; now only glory awaited Him. "... When he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." This speaks of Christ's resurrection, this 'finished' Christ suffering; brought about an end to sin; reconciled us with God finally.


Graham:

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."(Heb 4:9-10)

Those who see the significance of these words are blessed indeed. For those who are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ have entered into His rest."

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

grahame:
"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:"(John 19:30)"


GE:
All the bitterness of His suffering Christ had fulfilled; now only glory awaited Him. "... When he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." This speaks of Christ's resurrection, this 'finished' Christ suffering; brought about an end to sin; reconciled us with God finally.

Graham:

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."(Heb 4:9-10)

Those who see the significance of these words are blessed indeed. For those who are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ have entered into His rest ..."

GE:
For them "remaineth keeping of the Sabbath" because they are "the Peopl of God".

 

[BobRyan]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:"(John 19:30)

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his."(Heb 4:9-10)

Those who see the significance of these words are blessed indeed. For those who are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ have entered into His rest.

Indeed - the Sabbath REMAINS and the saints are wise to enter it. "There remains the SABBATH REST for the people of God" NASB.

Christ RESTED on the Sabbath even in His work of redemption on the Cross.

We too should rest in Christ and honor HIS OWN Seventh-day Sabbath memorial of Creation -- HIS creative work.

Rev 14:6-7 "WORSHIP Him who CREATED the heavens and the earth the seas and springs of water" just as we see stated in the Sabbath Commandment of Christ in Ex 20:8-11.

As God said in Isaiah 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".

For as Christ said PRE-Cross "The SABBATH was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Some find it hard to believe that man-made tradition can not DOWNSIZE the “Ten Commandments” into the “NINE Commandments”…

DHK said --

Yes Bob, I believe in The Nine Commandments. That is, all Ten except the Sabbath. The Sabbath was given to Israel alone as is specifically explained in Exodus 31. One cannot get around that portion of Scripture.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=944679&postcount=92

[/quote]

God does not say "To Israel ALONE belongs the obligation to honor my Word, to honor my Commandments or to Honor My Sabbath" ... no not in Ex 31... no not in ALL OF SCRIPTURE!

For "the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27.

From "Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Isaiah 66.

These are the PRE-CROSS statements made about the scope and purpose of Christ the Creator's OWN Sabbath Commandment.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[grahame]

These words of our Lord seem to put thing into perspective.

Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Strange how many still make the same errors as the Pharisees of old and make this day of rest into a labour and a burden instead. Just out of interest, I wonder how many Gentiles keep the Passover as well?