-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
THE SABBATH POLL
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me
No, you are supposing that he put his money before God. I think he had never been ask to but now he was being ask to do one more thing and that was to follow Jesus as we all are ask. The Law can't give life but it is a schoolmaster that will bring you to where you can receive it and that is what happened to the young man.
(question) Which one of the commandments can you be breaking, and never get forgiveness of, and go to Heaven?
No, you are supposing that he put his money before God. I think he had never been ask to but now he was being ask to do one more thing and that was to follow Jesus as we all are ask. The Law can't give life but it is a schoolmaster that will bring you to where you can receive it and that is what happened to the young man.
(question) Which one of the commandments can you be breaking, and never get forgiveness of, and go to Heaven?
NT Christians do not have a requirement to keep a sabbath; such a requirement is not repeated in the NT and Romans 14 and Colossians 2:16 clarify that for anyone who still questions it.
Several comments are by 'in-betweeners' who say the sabbath is still commanded, but it's a different day, or that all the OT requirements to that effect are not valid. To those-- why bother with it at all? If you think it's still valid then don't light fires, don't cook, don't wash, .....
And for those who insist on the seventh day... does whether you can reef a sail on a large sailboat in the Pacific really depend on which side of the International Date Line you are on? If you're just west of it, 10 minutes before 'sundown' on Friday, then all you have to do sail a mile or 2 east and that will make it the sundown the day before, not sundown of the 7th? If not, since the Bible say nothing about an IDL, exactly where is it then?
One more question... if astronauts are orbiting in the space shuttle, do they have to drop everything that is 'work' every 7th orbit when the sun disappears to the next time it disappears (which may be only about 2 hours)?
Several comments are by 'in-betweeners' who say the sabbath is still commanded, but it's a different day, or that all the OT requirements to that effect are not valid. To those-- why bother with it at all? If you think it's still valid then don't light fires, don't cook, don't wash, .....
And for those who insist on the seventh day... does whether you can reef a sail on a large sailboat in the Pacific really depend on which side of the International Date Line you are on? If you're just west of it, 10 minutes before 'sundown' on Friday, then all you have to do sail a mile or 2 east and that will make it the sundown the day before, not sundown of the 7th? If not, since the Bible say nothing about an IDL, exactly where is it then?
One more question... if astronauts are orbiting in the space shuttle, do they have to drop everything that is 'work' every 7th orbit when the sun disappears to the next time it disappears (which may be only about 2 hours)?
Brother Bob
New Member
The Lord said it was Lawful to pull the ox out of the ditch on the Sabbath. He explained how to really keep the Sabbath.
James, chapter 2
"10": For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Luke, chapter 6
"1": And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
"2": And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
"3": And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
"4": How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?
"5": And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
"6": And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
"7": And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
"8": But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth.
"9": Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
James, chapter 2
"10": For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Luke, chapter 6
"1": And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands.
"2": And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?
"3": And Jesus answering them said, Have ye not read so much as this, what David did, when himself was an hungred, and they which were with him;
"4": How he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, and gave also to them that were with him; which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?
"5": And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
"6": And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught: and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
"7": And the scribes and Pharisees watched him, whether he would heal on the sabbath day; that they might find an accusation against him.
"8": But he knew their thoughts, and said to the man which had the withered hand, Rise up, and stand forth in the midst. And he arose and stood forth.
"9": Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it?
Oh wow Bob, THAT is an excellent question!
I see what you mean!
If we cant actually keep all the commandments then arent we saying we can go to heaven while committing sins we havent yet repented of or been forgiven for.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm....
Im going to have to think about that one for a litle bit...
because you definitely got me on that one!
Claudia
ok I just thought of the answer.
Jms:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
God doesnt hold us guilty for the things we dont realize are sins
Thats kind of what I was talking about anyway... the Law is so high we cant really keep it because we dont even know how high the perfection of Jesus is
Jms:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
God doesnt hold us guilty for the things we dont realize are sins
Thats kind of what I was talking about anyway... the Law is so high we cant really keep it because we dont even know how high the perfection of Jesus is
standingfirminChrist
New Member
We must also take into consideration that the Sabbath was given as an everlasting covenant between Israel and God. Gentiles are not mentioned in the Sabbath.
I Am Blessed 24
Active Member
Good points, Bro. Bob and Claudia!
There is no way we can keep all the Commandments. Jesus died on the cross, so we could have forgiveness.
God knew that we would sin and therefore made a way for us to be forgiven.
IMHO, Jesus has already forgiven us and paid for ALL of our sins.
We can't just pick 'certain' sins out that He has forgiven us for or we would be trampling on the Blood.
Either His Blood cleanses us from ALL sins or NONE. We can't have it both ways.
There is no way we can keep all the Commandments. Jesus died on the cross, so we could have forgiveness.
God knew that we would sin and therefore made a way for us to be forgiven.
IMHO, Jesus has already forgiven us and paid for ALL of our sins.
We can't just pick 'certain' sins out that He has forgiven us for or we would be trampling on the Blood.
Either His Blood cleanses us from ALL sins or NONE. We can't have it both ways.
Brother Bob
New Member
Are you saying then that even though it is sin to break the Commandments, we can break them for God will forgive us. How many times does Jesus have to die?
And to the answer of Claudia that we don't know no better:
Titus, chapter 2
11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(could not teach you to deny ungodliness without teaching what it is.) and there are plenty of other Scriptures.
Sifc:
You do believe the NT is to us right?
James, chapter 2
"10": For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Mark, chapter 2
"28": Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
And to the answer of Claudia that we don't know no better:
Titus, chapter 2
11": For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
"12": Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
"13": Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
"14": Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(could not teach you to deny ungodliness without teaching what it is.) and there are plenty of other Scriptures.
Sifc:
You do believe the NT is to us right?
James, chapter 2
"10": For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Mark, chapter 2
"28": Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Jim1999
The young man says to Him, "all these things have I kept from my youth".
Well pointed out, Brother Bob
In no way did Jesus break the Sabbath. He actually confirmed the Sabbath by correcting the Pharisee's misconception about the day.
Jesus kept the Ten Commandments perfectly throughout His life here on earth. Jesus Christ is "the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8).
If we're going to call ourselves disciples of Christ, isn't it about time we stopped arguing with our Teacher and started doing the things He said?
http://www.borntowin.net/essays.aspx?eid=42
referring to the Ten Commandments:
The young man says to Him, "all these things have I kept from my youth".
Well pointed out, Brother Bob
Obedience is our DUTY.
In no way did Jesus break the Sabbath. He actually confirmed the Sabbath by correcting the Pharisee's misconception about the day.
Jesus kept the Ten Commandments perfectly throughout His life here on earth. Jesus Christ is "the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8).
If we're going to call ourselves disciples of Christ, isn't it about time we stopped arguing with our Teacher and started doing the things He said?
http://www.borntowin.net/essays.aspx?eid=42
Brother Bob,
You know what? You are the first person on here that might have ever convinced me I was wrong about something LOL!
Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way.
Do you believe in perfection of character?
I do believe in that but I get a little confused about it since I have my views on that you cant really be perfectly perfectly perfect.
But on the other hand, Jesus said "Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect".
And other verses too talk about perfection.
I dont know, Im kinda confused when it comes to this, actually.
Mt:19:21: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Plus, how can we say we wont know God's perfect will when the Bible says we can?
Rom:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God .
2Cor:13:9: For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection .
2Cor:13:11: Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect , be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Eph:4:13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
there's a whole lot more verses like these too about perfection of character
Claudia
You know what? You are the first person on here that might have ever convinced me I was wrong about something LOL!
Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way.
Do you believe in perfection of character?
I do believe in that but I get a little confused about it since I have my views on that you cant really be perfectly perfectly perfect.
But on the other hand, Jesus said "Be ye perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect".
And other verses too talk about perfection.
I dont know, Im kinda confused when it comes to this, actually.
Mt:19:21: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
Plus, how can we say we wont know God's perfect will when the Bible says we can?
Rom:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God .
2Cor:13:9: For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection .
2Cor:13:11: Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect , be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Eph:4:13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
there's a whole lot more verses like these too about perfection of character
Claudia
Brother Bob
New Member
No, I do not in being able to be perfect, I wish I could but we strive every day of our lives to do so. There is a sin which is not a sin unto death which we are all guilty of day by day which is the thorn in the flesh, (saying things that hurt people, etc), but there is a sin unto death which is breaking the Commandments and we just don't do those sins anymore after becoming a Christian. To do so would make a mockery of God as if He were not able to keep us until the day of the resurrection to deliver us to the Father without spot or blemish. I never have to pray no more "Father forgive me for I have committed adultery" and so on. I did that until I was raised from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope with Jesus Christ. In other words I was put upon a Rock, (which is Christ)
I do believe in a perfect man on the inside, which is the inward man which Paul said He delighted in.
I do believe in a perfect man on the inside, which is the inward man which Paul said He delighted in.
1 Peter (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
4:18
And if the righteous is saved with difficulty, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
4:18 (New International Version)
And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
A sinner sins: "Sin is the transgression of the law" (1John 3:4, Rom. 7:7).
"for all your Commandments are righteousness" - Pslams 119:172.
1Cor. (NKJV)
15:34
Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
4:18
And if the righteous is saved with difficulty, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?
4:18 (New International Version)
And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"
A sinner sins: "Sin is the transgression of the law" (1John 3:4, Rom. 7:7).
"for all your Commandments are righteousness" - Pslams 119:172.
1Cor. (NKJV)
15:34
Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.
Standing:
Acts 13:
42: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44: And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
You really dont think that all these people kept the Sabbath with Paul after they were converted?
Acts 17:2
2: And Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures
The book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon the Sabbath day
(See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4,11)
In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why not if he did not keep it?
Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it "the Sabbath Day" (Acts 13:14)
In the great Christian council in A.D. 52, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciple, James called it "the Sabbath" (see Acts 51:21)
God has pronounced a special blessing upon all Gentiles who keep the Sabbath (See Isaiah 56:6,7)
This Sabbath blessing is in the prophecy that refers wholly to the Christian dispensation (See Isaiah 56)
After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down for "many generations" , it is to be restored in the last days (See Isaiah 58:12,13)
Claudia
[ May 06, 2006, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
Acts 13:
42: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44: And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
You really dont think that all these people kept the Sabbath with Paul after they were converted?
Acts 17:2
2: And Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures
The book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eighty-four meetings upon the Sabbath day
(See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4,11)
In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why not if he did not keep it?
Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D. 62, calls it "the Sabbath Day" (Acts 13:14)
In the great Christian council in A.D. 52, in the presence of the apostles and thousands of disciple, James called it "the Sabbath" (see Acts 51:21)
God has pronounced a special blessing upon all Gentiles who keep the Sabbath (See Isaiah 56:6,7)
This Sabbath blessing is in the prophecy that refers wholly to the Christian dispensation (See Isaiah 56)
After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down for "many generations" , it is to be restored in the last days (See Isaiah 58:12,13)
Claudia
[ May 06, 2006, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]