THE SABBATH POLL

[Brother Bob]

We have to be as Paul and strive to be perfect and have the thorn remove to which it won't be but His Grace is Sufficient to keep us. We won't be perfect outwardly until this corruptle puts on incorruptle in the resurrection.

Mt:19:21: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
(Put no other Gods before me, Jesus gave His life but has not required us to do so.)

Plus, how can we say we wont know God's perfect will when the Bible says we can?

Rom:12:2: And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(keeping of the Commandments, believe in Christ and be born again.)

2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God .
(sins that are sin unto death such as adultery)


2Cor:13:9: For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection .
(God's perfection)

2Cor:13:11: Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect , be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
(Same, keep the Commandments and live a Christian life. Be as Apostle Paul, live as good as you can and Pray for God to remove anything that so easily besets us.)

Eph:4:13: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
(The inward man again is a perfect man that Paul delighted after the law of. Its the outward man that has the thorn but not to the point of breaking the Commandments.)

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Thank you, Claudia. I have gained a greatgrandson since that picture was taken.

Also, there are now have three generations of my family postiing on the BB. Is that some kind of record?

We will never reach perfection until we see Jesus face to face, but that is the goal that we are to strive for in our daily walk with the Lord.

Jesus alone is perfect and He will make us perfect. That is the Blessed Hope that burns inside us and keeps us going when we mess up, and picks us up when we fall (and we all do).

Sinners sin. And I am but a sinner saved by grace...

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
Thank you, Claudia. I have gained a greatgrandson since that picture was taken.

Also, there are now have three generations of my family postiing on the BB. Is that some kind of record?

We will never reach perfection until we see Jesus face to face, but that is the goal that we are to strive for in our daily walk with the Lord.

Jesus alone is perfect and He will make us perfect. That is the Blessed Hope that burns inside us and keeps us going when we mess up, and picks us up when we fall (and we all do).

Sinners sin. And I am but a sinner saved by grace...

Well that just MIGHT BE a new record! You're going to have to have a brand new photograph taken now.

I think overall now, I agree with you and also with Brother Bob's last post.

One of these days I would like to just gather together all the Bible verses about perfection of character and look at them all and study that out, and see what I come up with.

On that topic, I always thought it was interesting that when Jesus said "Be ye perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect"

..and then Jesus defined what that means by saying:

Matthew 5:
43: Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45: That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46: For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47: And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


And so isnt that something, when you think about it, that perfection is when you can actually really love someone when they are mean to you and dont love you and are maybe even cruel to you?

Maybe thats why sometimes God allows people like that into our lives or our pathway... because how could we ever learn to be perfect and godlike if we dont have some people like that placed in our lives that will challenge us in that way?

When I think about it, thats really the most difficult thing in the world to do, is to love someone who doesnt love you back or who is mean to you. Maybe its a blessing in disguise.

Claudia

 

[Claudia_T]

Brother Bob,

I think I agree with you except for the part where you said this:

2Cor:7:1: Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God .
(sins that are sin unto death such as adultery)

Can you actually show me where it says the sins unto death means what you say it means?


I know I remember the Bible talking about sins unto death, but how do you get to the conclusion that it means the strict broad outline of the commandments such as adultery, murder, stealing, and then that the sins not unto death means stuff like saying hurtful things to people, etc?

does the Bible actually come out and SAY thats what that means or are you just guessing thats what it means?


Claudia

 

[Brother Bob]

Romans, chapter 7

8": But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

"9": For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

"10": And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

"11": For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

 

[wopik]

After the giving of the Ten Commandments and after Israel had boldly promised that they would keep the law, God said, "They have well said all that they have spoken. O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children forever!" (Deuteronomy 5:29).


Speaking of these commandments, Paul said: "And the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death" (Romans 7:10).

This may be the plainest commentary available on what Paul meant by the "ministration of death" in II Corinthians 3. How could a commandment which was ordained to life be called "the administration of death"? It could be so only when the commandment is broken.


Paul continues: "And the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal sold under sin" (Romans 7:10-14).


http://www.borntowin.net/essays.aspx?eid=42

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

Claudia: Loving someone who loves us back costs us nothing.

It's when we can love the 'unloveable' that the light of Jesus shines through us.

As we die daily to ourselves, we grow more like Jesus. That is the perfection we are to seek.

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.
Psalms 42:1

 

[Linda64]

None of the voting options apply to the Sabbath. The Law was NOT abolished, it was fulfilled in Christ (Matthew 5:17)

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matthew 5:17)

The Sabbath was a special sign between God and Israel. (Exodus 31:12-18). The Sabbath was not given to the Church, and it is still on the 7th day. The Sabbath was not changed from Saturday to Sunday. Sunday is the first day of the week, the Lord's Day for me--that's why I worship on Sunday--Christ rose from the dead on the first day--AFTER the Sabbath.

Jesus is my Sabbath/Rest--not any particular day. I rest in Him alone.

 

[gekko]

the new testament was written to us?
hmm... i'll have to not agree - but not not agree on that point... all of it was written to the jews at the various churches. no? it apply's to us though because we have been grafted in.

the new covenant is not to the gentiles - its to Israel. Jeremiah 31:31 "behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"
we're just grafted in.

speaking of being grafted in - if you graft a branch into another tree - that grafted in branch must intertwine with everything the roots have to offer to the original branches to beable to look like it has come from the roots. right?

so, we gentiles, being grafted into the roots of Jesus, have to intertwine our life in every aspect to beable to look like we have come from the root. if we dont intertwine ourselves in one area, we're not going to look like our Lord. spiritually speaking. which means, everything the root has to offer, everything God has to offer, everything God has given - we must intertwine ourselves with it. which includes the law of God.

now. concerning the sabbath. the sabbath, as explained in exodus 20, is a day of rest. notice the word "day" it does not say it is a time of rest. no, not a time of rest, but a day of rest. we leads to the notion that there must be a specific day which the sabbath is. now, lets look at the beginning of exodus 20:10 "But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God:" look at that right there. it tells us when the sabbath is. now after that is what is not allowed to do on the sabbath - Jesus goes more into depth with that and explains it more in the new testament. verse 11 is the explanation of why we should keep the sabbath on the seventh day.

now lets look at the different calendars for a second. the jewish calendar states the last day of the week, the seventh day, as being the sabbath day. since all the other calendars, julius, modernday and all others, have come into play - for each of those calendars, the jewish sabbath always - always ended up being on the saturday.

exodus 20:10 tells us when the sabbath is to be kept. verse 11 tells us why and that the Lord blessed it and hallowed it. (not hollowed for those who like puns! haha)

now. if the sabbath day wasn't that important - why then are there four whole verses talking about it in exodus 20? (where the ten commandments are) sounds to me like this is pretty important to God - so it should be important to me.

now, lets look at the accounts of meeting on the sabbath in the new testament. i think i'll stick to acts more. but just to mention: Jesus spoke in the synagogue on the sabbath. never on the first day.

Matthew 24:20 - "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:"
why would Jesus say not to take flight on the sabbath DAY? because of the 4th commandment - specifying a day.

Matthew 28:1 - "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."
as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week. explaining again that the sabbath is on the last day of the week. the seventh day- as exodus 20:10 describes.

Mark 2:27 - "And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:"
so, we should not decide ourselves when the sabbath should be.

Mark 6:2 - "And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue:"
another example of Jesus teaching on the sabbath

Luke 4:16 - "And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."
Jesus did it again there.

Luke 4:31 - "And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days."
another example of Jesus teaching on the sabbath days (plural of day - not resting times)

Luke 23:56 - "And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."
and rested the sabbath DAY according to the commandment (exodus 20:10)

Acts 13:14 - "But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down."

Acts 13:27 - For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

Acts 13:42 - "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath."
oh look - the gentiles besought that the word may be preached to them the next SABBATH.

Acts 13:44 - And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Acts 18:4 - And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Acts 17:2 - "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures"

now here's the kicker:
Colossians 2:16 - "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:"
know what that's saying? exactly what it says 'Let no MAN there fore judge you...'
God will judge righteously and accordingly. the holy spirit through us, will use scripture to judge righteously 2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctine, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"

God bless,
gek

 

[Brother Bob]

Luke, chapter 24
"44": And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

You know what was written concerning Him. It was that He would die among other things but He himself said not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the Law until Heaven and earth have passed. That hasn't happened yet.


KJMatt.05

"17": Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

"18": For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

He fullfilled the Sacrificial law for it was a shadow but Jesus was the real thing.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Mar 2:27 Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

 

[Alcott]

Originally posted by gekko:
verse 11 is the explanation of why we should keep the sabbath on the seventh day.

Alright, Gikkko, let's see if you're as much of a coward to answer these questions as other sabbbatarins here...

[same question with a different scenario] If you went on a worldwide mission from Jerusalem, going west, averaging 15 degrees longitutde per day, you would "gain" an hour a day because of the sun 'setting' an hour later daily (plus or minus about 1 minute adjusting for the constantly changing seasons). After one week, 'sundown' would be about 7 hours later; after 14 days, sundown would be about 14 hours later.... if you go all the way around the world in the 24 days (360 degrees divided by 15 degrees per day), sundown would be 24 hours later. Therefore, if you have kept the biblical sabbath, sundown immediately following day 6 til sundown following day 7, during your trip you would be observing the sabbath on the first day instead of the seventh. So what would you do on your trip?-- somewhere change your sequence of sabbbaths, or continue the 7th day pattern?

now. if the sabbath day wasn't that important - why then are there four whole verses talking about it in exodus 20? (where the ten commandments are) sounds to me like this is pretty important to God - so it should be important to me.

4 whole verses!? FYI the Bible was not written in "verses." Verses are arbitrary as decided by man.

 

[Brother Bob]

Was there really a "lost" day?


Joshua, chapter 10

"12": Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

"13": And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

"14": And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

(Seems to me the exact day is not so very important if there was a lost day. We need to have a day we set aside each week we worship.)

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by Alcott:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gekko:
verse 11 is the explanation of why we should keep the sabbath on the seventh day.

Alright, Gikkko, let's see if you're as much of a coward to answer these questions as other sabbbatarins here...

[same question with a different scenario] If you went on a worldwide mission from Jerusalem, going west, averaging 15 degrees longitutde per day, you would "gain" an hour a day because of the sun 'setting' an hour later daily (plus or minus about 1 minute adjusting for the constantly changing seasons). After one week, 'sundown' would be about 7 hours later; after 14 days, sundown would be about 14 hours later.... if you go all the way around the world in the 24 days (360 degrees divided by 15 degrees per day), sundown would be 24 hours later. Therefore, if you have kept the biblical sabbath, sundown immediately following day 6 til sundown following day 7, during your trip you would be observing the sabbath on the first day instead of the seventh. So what would you do on your trip?-- somewhere change your sequence of sabbbaths, or continue the 7th day pattern?

now. if the sabbath day wasn't that important - why then are there four whole verses talking about it in exodus 20? (where the ten commandments are) sounds to me like this is pretty important to God - so it should be important to me.

4 whole verses!? FYI the Bible was not written in "verses." Verses are arbitrary as decided by man. </font>[/QUOTE]In my case at least Im not a coward, I just thought it was a dumb question. You could go all day making up scenerios like that.

But if God says the 7th day is the Sabbath, He isnt playing games with you.

Everyone sure knows when Sunday is. And God wouldnt of made the Sabbath the 7th day if it couldnt be kept.

Its like God telling Adam and Eve to stay away from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and you making up scenerios as to why they'd end up not knowing which tree was that one.

Also you might want to try addressing people with their proper names instead of "Gikko" and "Woppy" to try to insult them.

Claudia

 

[Claudia_T]

Double Post **Growl**

 

[gekko]

to alcott:

God said to keep the sabbath day - the seventh day. never said to keep it the same day the jews do. God know's there timezones - so. God simply said "the seventh day"

is it that hard to understand?


i know the bible wasn't written in verses - they're just waypoints...
let me put it this way then:

there's more scripture explaining when and why the sabbath is when it should be in the section of the 10 commandments then there are any other of the ten commandments...

 

[gekko]

i dont particularily think it was a "lost day"

God made the sun and moon stand still - lengthening the day...light...

they just had daylight for a whole day. and then there was night. and so on.

 

[wopik]

Christ rose from the dead on the first day--AFTER the Sabbath.

The women, who stood near by, watched the burial. They saw Jesus buried the last minutes before sundown, just prior to the beginning of the Sabbath.


Luke says these women went home and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath day "according to the commandment" (Lk 23:56).


How could these women have watched the burial and then have time to go home and prepare spices - before the Sabbath day came? There isn't any way.

--------------------------------
1) Luke says these women went home and prepared spices and ointments and rested the Sabbath day "according to the commandment" (Lk 23:56).


2) Mark tells us the women didn't even buy their spices until AFTER the Sabbath (Mk 16:1).

-

 

[gekko]

where'd that come from wopik?


you know what the sabbath truly is?

here goes:
God rested on the 7th day of the week. we're commanded to follow him - so rest on the 1st day of... NO! rest on the 7th day of the week.

that word rest. it means to put aside everything on the last day of the week - after all the six days of working - and spend your time with God. and God only - dont let any distractions take you away from Him on the sabbath. Jesus goes further and says that if we honestly really need to do something, then do it (ox in the well deal). but if it is pleasing us - dont do it!

why is that so hard for us to do? because we are so selfish. we want to pick the day to rest - we want to pick the day to spend time with God.

the sabbath is a day set aside on the 7th day so that we can have some solo time with God - as well as fellowship (Jesus & synagogue) and to hear the word of God being preached.

its even hard for me! i mean... look at the date: its saturday... eek.

 

[gekko]

i didn't see you edit the post... haha.