The Sabbath, the "threefold Law" and theological escapology

[JonC]

Hey KY,

I hope that explains a bit more of my view. I noticed Iconclast simply disliked and disagreed with a post. I assume that he has nothing to add that he hasn’t already stated on another thread (which is fine, he made himself clear on that thread). But I want to be clear that I am not dismissing the Law as it relates to evangelism. We are not that far apart in our view.

In application, we agree on a lot here (although we are seeing it differently). The difference is a matter of authority. I believe that we are commanded to obey God’s moral law based on God’s nature and moral law revealed to mankind. This moral law is, of course, represented in the Ten Commandments (God is immutable and acts in according to his nature). But I disagree that the giving of the Law (the Law given within that covenant to Israel) was binding to those outside of Israel. That doesn’t mean that the Law did not reveal moral absolutes that are applicable apart from the Law itself.

The difference is not whether or not a person could steal and be innocent. They can’t. The difference is whether or not this theft is attributed as an offense against the Ten Commandments or as an offense against God. Obviously it is an act which would break a given commandment. But more seriously, in my view, is the rebellious nature of that sinful act (that it manifests a nature that is in opposition to God). For me to place all of mankind as subject to the Law of Moses would be scratching the surface of what sin actually means. The depravity of our sinful acts extends far deeper than violating one of the Ten Commandments. In fact, the Law was given to reveal to us our sin – not to form a list of rules that must be kept in order to be sinless.

 

[DHK]

The difference is not whether or not a person could steal and be innocent. They can’t. The difference is whether or not this theft is attributed as an offense against the Ten Commandments or as an offense against God. Obviously it is an act which would break a given commandment. But more seriously, in my view, is the rebellious nature of that sinful act (that it manifests a nature that is in opposition to God). For me to place all of mankind as subject to the Law of Moses would be scratching the surface of what sin actually means. The depravity of our sinful acts extends far deeper than violating one of the Ten Commandments. In fact, the Law was given to reveal to us our sin – not to form a list of rules that must be kept in order to be sinless.

I agree. If a person steals he would be found guilty of breaking the law, not innocent. It is a moral offence against God.
But what about that unsaved person in Africa who has never heard of the Ten Commandments, Judaism or Christianity? Stealing is still sin. But breaking the Sabbath? There is nothing immoral about breaking the Sabbath, and how would he know what day the Sabbath is?

How do you keep the Sabbath?
If one were really interested in keeping the Sabbath they would apply the OT rules to our society today. Read this link here:

http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

 

[JonC]

I agree. If a person steals he would be found guilty of breaking the law, not innocent. It is a moral offence against God.
But what about that unsaved person in Africa who has never heard of the Ten Commandments, Judaism or Christianity? Stealing is still sin. But breaking the Sabbath? There is nothing immoral about breaking the Sabbath, and how would he know what day the Sabbath is?

How do you keep the Sabbath?
If one were really interested in keeping the Sabbath they would apply the OT rules to our society today. Read this link here:

http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

Marring the corners of an existing beard was, to an Israelite, a moral transgression of the Law because it was disobedience to God’s command. If we are to believe Scripture, the Ten Commandments were given to Israel as a part of a covenant (Deut. 5).

So you could say that there is nothing immoral about how you keep your beard, and you would be right. But there is something immoral in how you keep your beard if God commanded you to keep it a particular way and you refuse. Likewise, for an Israelite under the Law it was a moral transgression not to observe the Sabbath in the way that the Sabbath was intended to be observed.

We are not, nor have we ever been, under the Law. That does not mean that the Law somehow reflected something different from God's own nature. God was revealed in the Law. And those moral commands will eternally reflect God's moral law.

The "threefold division" of the Law is extra-biblical fiction (just like the Law encapsulating all of humanity). But God's nature is revealed in the Law. Moral commandments remain commandments regardless as to one's status under the Law or outside of the Law. No one is currently under the Law, but stealing is stealing and a violation of God's law....not because it breaks that covenant (under which the Ten Commandments were given....the Law) but because it manifests a deeper sinfulness.

 

[Iconoclast]

MM......has answered correctly.
The Sabbath is Moral law......even though it was also included in the ceremonial portion of the Old Covenant law....it predated it and is still in effect, although we no longer keep the Mosaic Sabbath, or the creation rest, but rather our one day in seven is the LORDS DAY......now.
from a Baptist Catechism with Commentary, by WR. Downing;


that in neither the Old or New Testaments did God explicitly change the weekly Sabbath from the seventh to the first day, since the resurrection of our Lord, Christians have met on the first day of the week (Matt. 28:1; Acts 2:1ff; 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2; Rev. 1:10). It was our Lord’s resurrection–day, the Day of Pentecost, which marked out the New Testament church as God’s ordained institution for this Gospel economy by the empowering of the Spirit; and anticipates the full and final restoration of all things, of which his resurrection was but the first declaration. The first day (traditionally “Sunday”) thus distinguishes Christian worship from Jewish worship. This was the inspired apostolic practice throughout the New Testament. Thus, observing the first day of the week as the Lord’s Day is not merely traditional; it is implicitly and explicitly biblical (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).

Have you found that promised rest in the Lord Jesus? Do you find the Lord’s Day a delight? Do you take time to anticipate and rejoice in the coming Sabbath of creation? worship]–principle is perpetual, as reflected in both God’s creation–rest (Gen. 2:2–3; Ex. 20:11) and the need for man to rest, i.e., “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath” (Mk. 2:27). The Sabbath–principle points ahead to the redemptive rest in the Lord Jesus Christ (Deut. 5:12–15; Heb. 4:1–11. Note that Heb. 4:9 literally reads “a Sabbath rest” in the Gk.), and so has a typical significance which will find complete fulfillment in the final redemption of man and the earth, when the Sabbath rest of God and man shall find its ultimate realization (Rom. 8:18–23; 2 Pet. 3:13).
What, then, in essence, is the perpetual and ultimate significance of the Sabbath? The Sabbath is described as “the Sabbath of the Lord God,” i.e., his Sabbath and is traced back to his primeval rest of celebration, accomplishment, satisfaction [“all was very good”] and anticipation (Gen. 2:1–3). The national or covenant significance to Israel was both temporary and typological (Ex. 16:25–30; 23:10–12; 31:13–17; Deut. 5:12–15), awaiting its true and full significance among believers within the New or Gospel Covenant (Heb. 4:1–11). Believers are now brought into union with Christ and so rejoice in his finished redemptive work and spiritually “rest” by faith in him. We celebrate our glorious salvation. Note the anticipation of that “[Sabbath–]rest which remaineth for the people of God” (Heb. 4:9). We await our future glorification (Rom. 8:14–23) and the restoration of all creation which, again, will render everything pristine and “very good” in the creation of “new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness” (2 Pet. 3:7–13).

With creation ultimately and infallibly restored, and the elect of God finally and fully redeemed, the full and final rest of God will be accomplished. The Sabbath then, ought to be a celebration of our redemption, a delight, a rest, both physical and spiritual and an anticipation of that glory which is to come. Such thoughts ought to sanctify and make the Lord’s Day a delight.

While it is true 101 short study on the various “Sabbaths”: The Sabbath–principle of Israel was a principle of rest for man, animals and the land, instituted by God. It looked back to creation and Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, looked to God in covenant–relationship and looked ahead prophetically to the redemption of the whole creation. This principle was also a principle of celebration. Both typically anticipated the redemption– rest in the Lord Jesus Christ and in future glory (Deut. 5:12–15; Rom. 8:18– 23; Heb. 4:1–11; 2 Pet. 3:7–18). To be biblical and consistent, one must make a distinction between the provisional [ceremonial, civil] and the perpetual: The Sabbath [rest and The Fourth Commandment reveals the absolute sovereignty of God over man with regard to the use of his time—labor, rest, worship and recreation.

The Sabbath, reflecting the rest of God upon finishing the work of creation, comes to man as a Divine blessing and gift, not a restriction or burden (Isa. 58:13–14).

The division of this Commandment is four–fold:
first, the strongest admonition both to remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy [set apart].

Second, the recognition of work,

Third, rest from work.

Fourth, the reason for the Sabbath. It reflects the Divine rest after the work of creation—a rest of pleasure and satisfaction.
The First Commandment reveals the absolute sovereignty of God over our worship;
the Second, the spirituality of our worship;
the Third, our inward– attitude in worship.
The Fourth Commandment reveals the absolute sovereignty of God over our time—work and rest, worship and vocation, labor and recreation. One must work before he can rest. Six days are the God–given time– frame for work. Note that six days of work are not necessarily commanded, but rather that all man’s work is to be done within six days that he might rest on the seventh: The opening words “Six days shalt thou labour…” must not be arbitrarily separated from the remainder of the statement, “…and do all thy work,” implying a six–day time–frame for work that the Sabbath might remain separate as a day of rest. The weekly Sabbath was not the only “Sabbath” that God commanded Israel to observe. There were weekly (Ex. 20:8–11; Deut. 5:12–15), monthly (Numb. 28:11–15; Rom. 14:5–6) and yearly Sabbaths (Ex. 12:1–20, 43–50; Lev. 23:15–44; Numb. 28:16–25; 29:1–40), one observed every seven years (Ex. 23:10–11; Lev. 25:1–7, 18–22; 2 Chron. 36:20–21) and one observed every fifty years (Lev. 25:8–18). Some were purely rest–days, some were feast–days and some were days of corporate worship. To correctly understand the full significance of the weekly Sabbath, one must understand the whole Sabbath–principle commanded by God. The following is a

 

[JonC]

The Sabbath being made for man, what are it's moral implications?

 

[Iconoclast]

The Sabbath being made for man, what are it's moral implications?

We are being restored as Image bearers. Jesus was the perfect Image bearer.
He always did the will of the Father.
Jesus kept one day in 7, however, He was also under both Moral , ceremonial and judicial laws.....the ceremonial, and judicial have passed away in Jesus......the Decalogue predates both and is binding on all men.

ibid, from pg 136;
Fifth, we must mark that every fact is a created fact. This necessarily means that there are no “brute” facts, i.e., uninterpreted or “neutral” facts in the universe. Because every fact is a created fact, all the ground, literally and figuratively, belongs to God. There are thus no “neutral” facts to which unbelievers or secular science can appeal. There is no “neutral ground” on which the believer and unbeliever can meet for a meaningful exchange. There is common ground or a point–of–contact, but this is in the context of man being the image–bearer of God, having God’s Law indelibly inscribed upon his heart, and existing in the context of created facts which he unconsciously takes for granted (Gen. 1:26; Rom. 2:14–15; 1:18–20). This truth is determining for worship, for the preaching of the Gospel, for the defense of the faith, for the Christian life, for science and for a Christian philosophy of education. It must be remembered that all facts are necessarily interpreted by one’s presuppositions

 

[JonC]

We are being restored as Image bearers. Jesus was the perfect Image bearer.
He always did the will of the Father.
Jesus kept one day in 7, however, He was also under both Moral , ceremonial and judicial laws.....the ceremonial, and judicial have passed away in Jesus......the Decalogue predates both and is binding on all men.

ibid, from pg 136;
Fifth, we must mark that every fact is a created fact. This necessarily means that there are no “brute” facts, i.e., uninterpreted or “neutral” facts in the universe. Because every fact is a created fact, all the ground, literally and figuratively, belongs to God. There are thus no “neutral” facts to which unbelievers or secular science can appeal. There is no “neutral ground” on which the believer and unbeliever can meet for a meaningful exchange. There is common ground or a point–of–contact, but this is in the context of man being the image–bearer of God, having God’s Law indelibly inscribed upon his heart, and existing in the context of created facts which he unconsciously takes for granted (Gen. 1:26; Rom. 2:14–15; 1:18–20). This truth is determining for worship, for the preaching of the Gospel, for the defense of the faith, for the Christian life, for science and for a Christian philosophy of education. It must be remembered that all facts are necessarily interpreted by one’s presuppositions

I disagree about the nature of the Law, but between us that's an old disagreement we probably don't need to rehash (I can respect that disagreement). What I am trying to understand are the moral implications of keeping th e Sabbath, not what it foreshadows but in what ways is this an issue of morality.

 

[Iconoclast]

I disagree about the nature of the Law, but between us that's an old disagreement we probably don't need to rehash (I can respect that disagreement). What I am trying to understand are the moral implications of keeping th e Sabbath, not what it foreshadows but in what ways is this an issue of morality.

Simple.....if God has said it is good and beneficial for man, it was made for man....why would it not be moral, or morally right if our Creator gave it to us, presupposing we labor on the other days? The fact that He commands one day in seven makes it moral.
Again.....we are to be Image bearers.......Jesus kept it.

I do not get into philosophical explanations and philosophy......I do not ask; Why? What if? When we are told to do.

The language was included here in a way they could understand, looking forward;
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

 

[DHK]

The Sabbath being made for man, what are it's moral implications?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
The way Icon describes the Sabbath it seems that he thinks that man is made for the Sabbath. We become a slave to it.

Read the law. In fact read the entire OT. The Sabbath was never meant to be a day of worship. It was meant to be a day of rest. Even in the NT the Sabbath was a day of rest, not worship. Six days you shall worship and one day you shall rest not worship. The emphasis is always on the rest.
We can worship on any day we like. But one day a week needs to be reserved for rest. That is not necessarily the Lord's Day which is not the Sabbath Day.

Here is one of the most detailed passages in the Bible on the Sabbath Day:
Exodus 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Their rest was to be so complete that they were to abide or stay in their own "houses." It was a day of rest, not of worship. Stay home and rest. Worship is for another day.

The Apostles were not keeping the Sabbath, not even the Christian Sabbath. We have no evidence of that whatsoever. They worshiped the Lord on the first day of the week, in honor of the resurrection of Christ. Sabbath worship isn't necessary because it isn't commanded. It is a day of rest. Rest is commanded not worship.

Hebrews chapter four tells us that Christ is our rest. Enter into His rest.

 

[percho]

Wasn't and isn't the Sabbath a day that points to God as creator? Therefore when men departed from keeping the Sabbath they forgot God as creator and began to change Romans 1:23 the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. KJV The end result of that I believe to be evolution.

Then when God brought the children of Israel out of Egypt even before he gave them the law he showed them which day was the Sabbath.

 

[percho]

What law was transgressed that brought forth sin, which brought forth the death, that resulted in the need for redemption?

 

[percho]

But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Gal 4:4,5 NKJV

What law was Christ born under? The law that contained the Sabbath command or the law that was transgressed, that brought forth sin, which brought forth the death, that resulted in the need for redemption?