The Sabbath was "Made for Mankind" Mark 2:27??

[BobRyan]

What God said "Let us make MAN in our own image" do you "Re-edit" that as "Let us make Jews in our own image"??

When God said in Gen 6

Gen 6
6 The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
7 The LORD said, "" I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.''

Do you "edit that" so that it says "I will blot Jews whom I have created from the face of the earth"??

In fact - are you even serious at all about NOT understanding the term in Mark 2:27 to be a reference to mankind?

You seem happy to point out at the end of your post that you "needed" Christ to have said "The Sabbath was made for Israel only" instead of what He actually said. I applaud you for your honesty there.

But your stated need to bend the text and rewrite it to say "the Sabbath was MADE for Israel only" stands in contrast to actual exegesis and to the ACTUAL text saying "The Sabbath was MADE for Mankind".

(BTW - if you have SOME OTHER word in the NT that is used for MANKIND instead -- please show it! If you have ANY Greek text that says the word in Mark 2 IS NOT mankind - then show it)

You appear to answer the question about Mark 2:27 by saying that "AT NO TIME was the Sabbath MADE FOR MAN". In other words your tradition NEVER allows for the statement of Christ in Mark 2:27 to ever have been true!!

aànqrwpov Anthropos:

A human being (generic), whether male or female
generically, to include all human individuals
to distinguish man from beings (species) of a different order
of animals and plants
of from God and Christ
of the angels

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Here we see non-Sabbath keeping Bible commentators admitting to the glaring obvious fact that "man" in Mark 2:27 IS mankind!!

Adam Clarke
Verse 27. The Sabbath was made for man as in “mankind”
That he might have the seventh part of his whole time to devote to the purposes of bodily rest and spiritual exercises. And in these respects it is of infinite use to mankind. Where no Sabbath is observed, there disease, poverty, and profligacy, generally prevail. Had we no Sabbath, we should soon have no religion
http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002

Matthew Henry The Sabbath was made for man as in “mankind”
Verses 23-28 The sabbath is a sacred and Divine institution; a privilege and benefit, not a task and drudgery. God never designed it to be a burden to us, therefore we must not make it so to ourselves. The sabbath was instituted for the good of mankind, as living in society, having many wants and troubles, preparing for a state of happiness or misery. Man was not made for the sabbath, as if his keeping it could be of service to God, nor was he commanded to keep it outward observances to his real hurt. Every observance respecting it, is to be interpreted by the rule of mercy.
http://bible1.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryConcise/mhc-con.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002

This next reference is interesting in that it admits to the “making of both” the Sabbath and Mankind at Creation week and shows the true binding nature of the Sabbath – AND it admits to its own need to switch the Sabbath from what Christ the Creator gave in Gen 2:3 – to man’s traditions regarding “weekday-one”

Albert Barnes -- the Sabbath was made for “man” as in mankind”
Verse 27. The sabbath was made for man. For his rest from toil, his rest from the cares and anxieties of the world, to give an opportunity to call off his attention from earthly concerns, and to direct it to the affairs of eternity. It was a kind provision for man that he might refresh his body by relaxing his labours; that he might have undisturbed time to seek the consolations of religion to cheer him in the anxieties and sorrows of a troubled world; and that he might render to God that homage which is most justly due to him as the Creator, Preserver, Benefactor, and Redeemer of the world. And it is easily capable of proof, that no institution has been more signally blessed to man's welfare than the Christian Sabbath. To that we owe, more than to anything else, the peace and older of a civilized community. Where there is no Sabbath, there is ignorance, vice, disorder, and crime. On that holy day, the poor, and the ignorant, as well as the learned, have undisturbed time to learn the requirements of religion, the nature of morals, the law of God, and the way of salvation. On that day, man may offer his praises to the Great Giver of all good, and in the sanctuary seek the blessing of him whose favour is life. Where that day is observed in any manner as it should be, order prevails, morals are promoted, the poor are elevated in their condition, vice flies away, and the community puts on the appearance of neatness, industry, morality, and religion. The Sabbath was, therefore, pre-eminently intended for man's welfare, and the best interests of mankind demand that it should be sacredly regarded as an appointment of merciful heaven, intended for our best good; and, where improved aright, infallibly resulting in our temporal and eternal peace.
Not man for the sabbath. Man was made first, and then the Sabbath was appointed for his welfare, Genesis 2:1-3. The Sabbath was not first made or contemplated, and then the man made with reference to that. Since, therefore, the Sabbath was intended for man's real good, the law respecting it must not be interpreted so as to oppose his real welfare. It must be explained in consistency with a proper attention to the duties of mercy to the poor and the sick, and to those in peril. It must be, however, in accordance with man's real good on the whole, and with the law of God. The law of God contemplate man's real good on the whole; and we have no right, under the plea that the Sabbath was made for man, to do anything contrary to what the law of God admits. It would not be for our real good, but for our real and eternal injury, to devote the Sabbath to vice, to labour, or to amusement.
http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=mr&chapter=002

They appear to have no interest in "redefining" the term "man" to "Israel ONLY" instead of the obvious and explicit "MANKIND".

 

[standingfirminChrist]

you are taking Mark 2:27 out of context and refuse to line it up with the rest of the Word. \

We are commanded to rightly divide the Word of truth.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

444. anthropos
Search for G444 in KJVSL
anqrwpoV anthropos anth'-ro-pos

from 435 and ops (the countenance; from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:--certain, man.

See Greek 435
See Greek 3700

I do not see the word mankind there

 

[BobRyan]

This IS the term for mankind as used in Greek. It is the generic reference to man at the level of our "species" and in contrast to other species.

I guess you can "ignore it" but informed Bible and language scholars do not EVEN though they do not keep Sabbath.

The art of denying obvious fact simply to support a tradition should not carry into all aspects of Bible study.

I have just show Bible Scholars (in my post above) -- Sunday Keeping Bible scholars with EVERY incentive from "man's tradition" to twist the word AWAY from its normal meaning in Greek. AND YET they remain true to the Word anyway!

Greek: aànqrwpov Anthropos: - Mankind

A human being (generic), whether male or female
generically, to include all human individuals
to distinguish man from beings (species) of a different order
of animals and plants
of from God and Christ
of the angels

In Christ,

Bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

And you can continue to ignore all the verses that state that the Sabbath was for Israel and that Jesus Christ Himself is our New Covenant

 

[BobRyan]

I think there are any number of people that might agree with your rework of this subject in the area of "other texts".

But in Mark 2:27 it is so blatant, so clear so obvious that EVEN the Sunday Keeping Bible commentators I list above can not deny the generic reference to mankind.

So far you have shown NO USE AT ALL in scripture of the term "Anthropos" as meaning "Israel only" though you admit that you "need it" to be reworked to that definition for your views to survive in Mark 2.

But then you would also need a "rework" in Isaiah 66 where "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to Worship" in the New Heaven and New Earth.

Your "need" to edit and rework scripture does not end with Mark 2.

I have shown you Sunday Keeping Bible scholars with every incentive in the world to join you in reworking the definition -- and yet they remain true to the language and true to the text.

You have to be amazed at that!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Having said that - I have to give you credit for going out on that limb. We do not see the other Sunday keeping posters in this area willing to admit to what they "need" to have read in MArk 2:27 as you have done.

They have been very silent - and for good reason.

You have been very cooperative and willing to share even though this text exposes a serious flaw in the traditions you have held.

I applaud you for being willing to read these words of Christ when others have turned a blind eye to Him on this specific point.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The new heaven and the new earth are in the millenium, not today.

I am not editing and reworking scripture. Are you blind to the rest of the scripture?

God first gave the sabbath as a duty to man in the book of Exodus. The sabbath began at the last day of creation (Ge 2:1-3), but that was God's rest, not man's.

There is no scripture in Genesis to show that God gave the sabbath to man, and there is no instance of men keeping the sabbath before Israel in the wilderness. Ne 9:13-14 plainly says that the sabbath was first given to Israel. SDA's teach that men kept the sabbath from Adam onward, but the Bible does not state thus.

Ex 31:12-18 teaches that the Sabbath was a special sign between God and Israel. If all mankind was given the sabbath after creation, it would not have been a sign for Israel.

The sabbath belongs to the nation Israel and not to any other people. Exodus 31:16 teaches us that the sabbath will be an eternal possession of Israel. This sign will never be removed or established to another people. This is why the prophets foretell that Israel will keep the Sabbath even after the Christ's kingdom is established on earth (Isa 66:23).
It further explains why Jesus Christ told of the sabbath in His prophecies of the Tribulation in Matthew 24:20. Israelites in Palestine still keep the sabbath to this day.

In their letters to the churches, the Apostles mentioned the Sabbath only 3 times.
(1) The sabbath is a symbol of salvation rest in
Christ (Heb. 4).
(2) The N.T. believer is not held to the
Sabbatical laws (Col 2:9-17).
(3) The N.T. believer has liberty in the matter of
holy days (Ro 14:1-23). Those who teach
that the sabbath is binding upon the
Christian, are teaching contrary to the
doctrines taught by the Apostles.

Why, then, did Jesus adhere to the Sabbath? He kept the Sabbath for the same reason He kept all Mosaic laws. He observed the feasts. Jesus kept the Sabbath because He was born a Jew, born under the law, that He might fulfill it and redeem His people from its bondage and penalty (Ga 4:4; Ro 9:5).

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
The new heaven and the new earth are in the millenium, not today.

I agree - I thought you agreed that the Millenium is after the cross.

I am not editing and reworking scripture. Are you blind to the rest of the scripture?

I was speaking specifically of Mark 2:27. I pointed out that "exegesis" does not allow you to take "anthropos" and water it down to "Israel only" just because your tradition "needs it".

In fact it can not be done at all! Hence the example of the Sunday keeping Bible scholars that had to admit to the "bare bones facts" of Mark 2:27 and "Made for MANKIND".

The rest of your post avoids Mark 2:27 like the plague.

Lets take one thing at a time.

Since you offer nothing by way of actual exegesis to get to what your tradition needs - you are going to other texts where you might find more support for your views.

Ok - we can do that on a thread that says something like "How can we get the Sabbath not to apply to mankind if we ignore enough text to the contrary".

Which is my way of saying that I do want to address the "other text" direction that you so anxious to go here - but that is not even "remotely" an exegetical review of Mark 2:27!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
I think there are any number of people that might agree with your rework of this subject in the area of "other texts".

But in Mark 2:27 it is so blatant, so clear so obvious that EVEN the Sunday Keeping Bible commentators I list above can not deny the generic reference to mankind.

So far you have shown NO USE AT ALL in scripture of the term "Anthropos" as meaning "Israel only" though you admit that you "need it" to be reworked to that definition for your views to survive in Mark 2:27.

But then you would also need a "rework" in Isaiah 66 where "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to Worship" in the New Heaven and New Earth.

Your "need" to edit and rework scripture does not end with Mark 2.

I have shown you Sunday Keeping Bible scholars with every incentive in the world to join you in reworking the definition -- and yet they remain true to the language and true to the text.

You have to be amazed at that!

 

[standingfirminChrist]

There is a lot of evidence in the Bible and in other historical sources that the early Christians, beginning with the Apostles, met and worshiped on the first day of the week, and not the sabbath.

Throughout the centuries since the Apostles (who were assembled in the room with the doors locked on the first day of the week) the vast majority of Christians have always met to worship on the Lord's day, the first day of the week. They do this because of when Christ rose from the dead. Christ was in the tomb during the Sabbath, and rose as the firstborn from the dead first day of the week. The sabbath signifies the last day of the old creation (Ge 2:2). Sunday signifies the first day of the new creation.

Sunday is not the Sabbath; it is not even a holy day. Christians do not observe a first day Sabbath in meeting on Sunday. The N.T. believer, redeemed from the duties of the Mosaic law, is free to observe or not to observe holy days as he pleases. (Of course no Christian should forsake the assembling of themselves together, but every Christian is free to honor or not to honor days.) Ro 14:1-13 and Col 2:16 clearly state that believers are not to be judged in respect to holy days. The Galatians' respect of holy days made the Apostle Paul to wonder if they were even saved! "Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. ... I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you" (Ga 4:10-11,20).

"Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? . One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind" (Ro 14:4-5).

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" (Col 2:16).

 

[standingfirminChrist]

What I am amazed at is how you accuse the brethren of not keeping the Sabbath. My Bible teaches me that satan is the accuser of the Brethren.

 

[wopik]

standingfirminChrist

What I am amazed at is how you accuse the brethren of not keeping the Sabbath. My Bible teaches me that satan is the accuser of the Brethren.

Didn't Jesus accuse many people of many things.


Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

God gave them the Sabbaths as a sign so they might know who their God was.


They were just coming out of Egypt where there was one set of gods and they were headed for Canaan where there was yet another set of gods.

The Sabbath was more than just another law. It was the law that identified their God.

 

[wopik]

First and foremost, the Sabbath is the fourth of the Ten Commandments.


you feel you must teach disobedience toward any of the Ten Commandments ?


http://www.borntowin.net/essays.aspx?eid=42

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
What I am amazed at is how you accuse the brethren of not keeping the Sabbath. My Bible teaches me that satan is the accuser of the Brethren.

I have repeatedly accused you of not responding to the Mark 2:27 text itself. Recently you did that - so I say we have some progress at least.

Then I stated that you have no examples of "Anthropos" (in Mark 2:27 Mankind) as ever being defined as "Israel onlly". Though you admit you "need" that eisegetical rework in Mark 2:27.

I then point out how even Sunday Keeping Bible commentators admit that this is "Mankind" in Mark 2:27.

You seem to have no answer for this.

--------------------------------------

Now you claim that I AM THE ONE that thinks you are not keeping Christ the Creator's Sabbath - while in fact YOU have been arguing that the Sabbath of Christ the creator is not even FOR you!!

Which way do you want to have it? You are currently trying to have it "both ways" as well as ducking the response to Mark 2 on "Athropos" being redefined by you and you alone to mean "Israel only" (Something that is never done in all of scripture!).

In Christ,

Bob

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Sabbath was given as a sign. I affirmed that. But it was given to the Israelites, not the gentiles. It was also the Old Testament sign. All signs in the Old Testament pointed to Christ.

The Sabbath was the Old Covenant.
Christ's blood is the New Covenant

 

[BobRyan]

So in your view the Sabbath is just in the Old Covenant and NOT FOR MAN -- as in NOT made for Mankind -- NOT for Antrhopos -- but rather it was "MADE for FOR ISRAEL ONLY and NEVER MADE for MAN".

you have answered the OP then. you have stated that your tradition does not EVER allow Christ's Words in Mark 2:27 to have been true.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Bob,

It is funny how you are copying and pasting all out of the SDA texts and are repeating the same posts over and over.

Can you not read the Bible for yourself? Can you not depend on the Holy Spirit to reveal the Word of God instead of relying on the heretical doctrines of Ellen G. White?

 

[wopik]

Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal .....etc..... WERE ALL given to Israel.


Why pick on the Fourth Commadment ?